Stuck fermetation

[Down_Home52]

Just finished running 6 gallons of peach wine that I intend to bottle as wine. Used Lavlin K1-V116(?) yeast. Started another 6 gallons same nutrients, raisins, B12, lemon juice and used distillers yeast. Going to cook this down to peach brandy. Made a yeast bomb and pitched it yesterday and it has not taken off. PH is 4.0. Too low for distillers yeast? Do I need to add oyster shells and graham crackers? Did that on some SF wash before and it took off.

[Mikey-moo]

Did you start the 2nd batch using the trub from the first batch as the yeast etc or did you start from scratch again?

Either way, oyster shells couldn't hurt.

[Down_Home52]

I started new. Thinking about siphoning off sediment from first batch that is still fermenting, albeit very slow, and adding it to new batch to try and get it started. The only difference was using the wine yeast in the first batch and distillers yeast in the second.

[Down_Home52]

After racking sediment off the bottom of first run with wine yeast into new run, the new run is happy and bubbling away.

[Mikey-moo]

Perhaps you just had a bad batch of yeast then?

[Down_Home52]

Don't think so. I had been using the distillers yeast in sugar head washes and it was fine when the PH was adjusted. I think maybe the wine yeast might be more tolerant of low PH and the fruit washes are really low. This one was 3.5-4.0. I am probably wrong as all this is new to me.

[Down_Home52]

Stuck again. This batch has been a real PIA. I have tried oyster shells, graham crackers, sitting it outside to warm up and it has slowed to a crawl and finally stopped today. Still at 1.060 which is a little high due to all the pulp. Any suggestions? I will check pH tomorrow.

[NZChris]

What was the OG?

Have you added sugar?

Are they fresh peaches, or canned?

[Down_Home52]

The OG was difficult to determine because of all the pulp. I used 14 pounds of fresh peaches that were pitted and quartered then smashed in a mesh bag. I also added 1 pound of raisins, B 12 complex and juice of one lemon. 14 pounds of cane sugar was melted in 130 degree water and added to all the ingredients and let sit with 5 campden tablets for one day covered by cheese clothe before pitching yeast. My first run using the same ingredients came out perfect at 1.010 FG.

[NZChris]

Campden is for winemaking. The sulfur smells like rotten eggs and comes over with the distillate. I have no experience with removing it, because I have been careful not to use it.

If you can't measure the OG, calculate it. Too high = ferment problems, so you don't want to get it wrong. It's not often you can't squeeze enough through a rag to get a reading, but if you really can't, a refractometer will do the job.

Sugar adds alcohol without adding flavor, so don't expect great intensity of flavor.

[cranky]

I don't use distillers yeast but my understanding is it likes the temp very warm. 1116 likes it cooler so temp might be a problem. 14 pounds of sugar in 6 gallons seems very excessive to me on top of the sugar from the peaches. I would give it a good dose of 1118 and if that doesn't work nothing will. Like Chris indicated, you are making this like it is for wine, not to be distilled. I never add sugar to fruit that will be distilled. I never add compden either. One suggestion I have seen for getting rid of the sulfur from the compden is to shake it up and aerate the crap out of it before distilling but as I said, I don't use it so have never had to remove it.

[Down_Home52]

Cranky you are correct. The Campden dissipates rapidly when the container is left open for 24 hours. Just kills the wild yeasts when using fresh fruit. I will try the 1118. I added some trub from an 1116 ferment and it started back slowly for a little while. It is good stuff when finished.

[Down_Home52]

EC-1118 ordered. Monster Brew had it on sale for $.49 per 5 gram package.

[shadylane]

I will try the 1118. I added some trub from an 1116 ferment and it started back slowly for a little while. It is good stuff when finished.

Unless I'm mistaken K1v-1116 is a killer yeast, and will cannibalize the other strains of yeast.
I don't make very much Brandy because I'm lazy, but a friend does.
He ferments the peaches with no added sugar.
When it's fermented dry, he will add enough neutral spirits to bring it to 30%abv and let it sit for a couple weeks.
Then gently distill it on the pulp.

[Mikey-moo]

He ferments the peaches with no added sugar.
When it's fermented dry, he will add enough neutral spirits to bring it to 30%abv and let it sit for a couple weeks.
Then gently distill it on the pulp.

Is this method any good? What's the end result like Shady?

[NZChris]

Cranky you are correct. The Campden dissipates rapidly when the container is left open for 24 hours. Just kills the wild yeasts when using fresh fruit.

That sounds like internet propagated bollocks to me.

[Down_Home52]

Cranky you are correct. The Campden dissipates rapidly when the container is left open for 24 hours. Just kills the wild yeasts when using fresh fruit.

That sounds like internet propagated bollocks to me.

OK. It's just in every fruit wine recipe I have found....just learning.

[cranky]

Cranky you are correct. The Campden dissipates rapidly when the container is left open for 24 hours. Just kills the wild yeasts when using fresh fruit.

That sounds like internet propagated bollocks to me.

I read about the aerating somewhere on Jack Keller's website http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow How effective it is I don't know. Like I said, I never use it. There was a thread a while back where Odin was setting up a distillery that was having trouble running sulfited wine but don't know what the solution was. Most people use it for wine, but it can cause real problems when distilling.

[Down_Home52]

Won't use it again. I guess if you get some wild yeast they make alcohol all the same.....

[cranky]

When it comes to distilling we are not usually concerned with long term storage so infections aren't as big of a deal. The way I do things is sanitize well and if I am concerned about contamination I will pasteurize before fermenting. This has worked well for me but I have a strain of lacto that seems to have decided to take up residency in my garage so it has become fairly common if I don't keep things topped up and sealed. Also this past apple season I had a fermenter that didn't seal well and I didn't pasteurize and 5 months later I got 10 gallons of apple cider vinegar but those are risks I take for a better brandy.

[NZChris]

Won't use it again. I guess if you get some wild yeast they make alcohol all the same.....

Don't skimp on the yeast, re-hydrate it well to give it a good head start, give it a temperature it likes, and you should be ok.

Some of the protocols required in brewing beer and wine can be a hindrance in distilling, so you have to be careful what you bring with you.

[Down_Home52]

Got it. No use crying over spilled peaches....plums are ripe!!!! EC-1118? I did squeeze some of the wash out through a tee shirt and checked SG. I was down to 1.040. Smells a little funky but still sweet. Re-hydrated 20 grams of EC-1118 and pitched it. After 12 hours nothing bubbling. Stirred the wash for 15 minutes after pitching yeast with big paddle. Hate to throw it out but don't know anything else to try.

[Down_Home52]

Should I boil the entire wash and start over or throw it out? Still has a sweet taste so lots of sugar left.

[Mikey-moo]

If you boil it then the alcohol that is in there will escape... so don't do that. Give it a good stir and then take some small samples - 10oz or similar - make corrections to the samples and see what works to get it going again.

Dilute 1 with equal parts water. See if that helps.
Add chalk/oyster shells/calcium carbonate to the next to see if that helps.
Get one warmer - etc.

Once you find the thing that's stopping it from working then you can correct that in the main batch.

Also buy an hydrometer so you can quantify these things in future

[Down_Home52]

I have a hydrometer. After filtering the pulp out it is at 1.040. I have added oyster shells and graham crackers. It also had raisins, lemon juice and B12 complex to begin with. It is at 5.0 pH now. Last batch just like it ran like jack the bear. Checked it this morning and it has built a thick cake on top. No bubbles or foaming.

[cranky]

If it has a thick cake it is working, the CO2 is floating the solids. At the moment I would say bottle it as a nice dessert wine but the cake makes me think it has restarted and will finish fine.

By the way, 1118 loves plums, I screwed up and used it once on a batch of plum dessert wine, in 10 days it hit 21% and was undrinkable. I personally only recommend sugar in wine and not something to be distilled.

[Down_Home52]

If it has a thick cake it is working, the CO2 is floating the solids. At the moment I would say bottle it as a nice dessert wine but the cake makes me think it has restarted and will finish fine.

By the way, 1118 loves plums, I screwed up and used it once on a batch of plum dessert wine, in 10 days it hit 21% and was undrinkable. I personally only recommend sugar in wine and not something to be distilled.

Thanks cranky. I just finished 5 gallons, more or less, for wine. I blend it with a little banana if it comes out to acidic and it make a great drink for those who like sweet stuff. I wanted a batch to distill. Next time I will not add sugar...or very little. If I learn to distill a nice neutral AG I would like to use the peach or plum to charge the thump keg with. Have you ever tried that? My plums are wild and very acidic. I have about 1/2 of what I need for a 6 gallon batch that came off my tree. I pruned it hard last year and it is not producing as much fruit but what was there was very nice. Will probably add to it with store bought plums.

[Mikey-moo]

Happy yeast check list:

Food - sugar but not excessive amounts.
Nutritients - enough.
pH - not too high, not too low.
Temperature - not too high, not too low.
ABV - not too high already.
Inhibitors - none or low enough concentration.

If you've stalled then one or more of those is out of whack.

[cranky]

I seldom get enough plums to use for brandy. Some of my best and most popular dessert wine is made from plums and I need to make at least 10 gallons a year just to keep the wife happy. Then I also give away wine and cider every year to people I work with and given a choice plum is chosen most. Plums ferment like crazy and foam up pretty good so lots of head room is in order.

I have never used a thumper but have tasted some products that were flavored using one and think it works pretty well, but mostly I am a brandy snob, I don't like mixing anything with fruit even a neutral.

[Down_Home52]

Have you ever made some banana wine to mix with it? If you ever get a batch that is really high on acid make a small batch of banana and mix it about 70 plum 30 banana. WOW!! The banana looks terrible during fermentation but clears out perfect and has a nice golden color. It is high abv too!!! Mixed some with corn sugar white dog and it was powerful stuff.