JD Oak stave question

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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Sailman
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JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:43 am

Well I can't find exactly what I wanted as far as being able to age Whiskey on Oak, what I wanted was new seasoned Oak so I did the next best thing. I went to the local hardware store yesterday and found a half barrel that was missing one Stave and I got it for 50% off.

After doing a little research I found out that it's best to clean the oak Stave down to new wood. I think that's a good idea but how clean does it need to be. What I have some of the stains go fairly deep. In the pictures you can see what I started with and what I have now do I need to sand or Strip This any further?
IMG_20200927_093444.jpg
IMG_20200927_093503.jpg
IMG_20200927_092253.jpg

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Expat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:54 am

More than I bother doing, clean off the outer layer and toast/char as required.
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by jonnys_spirit » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:02 am

I just clean with a wire brush and either split to size or run a couple through a band saw. It’s going to sit in ~120pf alcohol for a while which will clean it up. I run through a coffee filter before bottling to filter any bits and dead bugs.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Durhommer » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:34 am

I use a 2 inch chisel and bust the outer layer off works rather well and you can get some of the raw wood out of it that way too
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 am

Good thanks Guys

My plan is to leave The Stave as long as I can. I'm going to be agent in a 1/6 Barrel beer keg. I think I'm going to do a medium toast in the oven and then maybe hit it with the propane torch for and medium to light char.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Expat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:35 am

Sailman wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 am
Good thanks Guys

My plan is to leave The Stave as long as I can. I'm going to be agent in a 1/6 Barrel beer keg. I think I'm going to do a medium toast in the oven and then maybe hit it with the propane torch for and medium to light char.
Sounds like a good plan. Just make sure you consider the wood swell, and size accordingly so you can actually get it back out when done. lol
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Twisted Brick » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:50 am

.
Sailman,

Instead of one longer stave, you might think about going with multiple smaller pieces that allow adding and subtracting depending on the extraction rate of your wood. You could also vary the char of each piece as you wish.
.
IMG_8004.jpg
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:58 am

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:50 am
.
Sailman,

Instead of one longer stave, you might think about going with multiple smaller pieces that allow adding and subtracting depending on the extraction rate of your wood. You could also vary the char of each piece as you wish.
.
IMG_8004.jpg
I was trying to eliminate the amount of end grain that would be in the spirit.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 am

IMG_20200927_120727.jpg
According to the thread okung 101 I need somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 square in per gallon. I want to do a 5-gallon batch in a 1/6 gallon keg hose 5.2 gallons. The oak staves that I have ready to go in all 16 in Long and the best I could figure it's going to be somewhere in the range of about 120 square inches of Oak added. I'm afraid if I add more Oak that I'm going to overfill the keg. So my options are less liquid and add more Oak or this amount of Oak and 5 gallons of liquid in age longer. Which option would be better?

After thinking about it I could split the staves lengthwise and that will add to the square in. This would add about 48 square in and would allow me to take wood out as I needed.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Twisted Brick » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:13 am

Sailman wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 am

After thinking about it I could split the staves lengthwise and that will add to the square in. This would add about 48 square in and would allow me to take wood out as I needed.
That's what I was thinking (I should have said thinner pieces).

How much air space are you planning to keep in the keg?
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by BourbonStreet » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:01 am

Definitely char it with a torch. I do that even with the JD chips. I like a darker char than comes in the bag. It pulls a lot of the heads bite out, and clears up any off flavors.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:13 am
Sailman wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 am

After thinking about it I could split the staves lengthwise and that will add to the square in. This would add about 48 square in and would allow me to take wood out as I needed.
That's what I was thinking (I should have said thinner pieces).

How much air space are you planning to keep in the keg?
well I really haven't thought about airspace. all I was going to do was put 5 gallons liquid in and then drop the wood in so what ever was left was how much I was going to have.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Twisted Brick » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:55 pm

I learned about airspace with my glass handles. Not a whole lot happened until I went with 25-30% airspace (consensus of HD members). Without a barrel's breatheability, glass vessels need the oxygen to interact with the spirits' compounds and provide a space for the volatiles to collect. After 3mos in (full) glass, all my spirit did was get hotter and look like weak tea. There are many important changes that happen during aging and oxygen is the catalyst.

https://www.iscbarrels.com/2018/01/30/o ... on-part-1/

https://www.iscbarrels.com/2018/04/16/t ... s-part-ii/
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Deplorable » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:42 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:50 am
.
Sailman,

Instead of one longer stave, you might think about going with multiple smaller pieces that allow adding and subtracting depending on the extraction rate of your wood. You could also vary the char of each piece as you wish.
.
IMG_8004.jpg
That pic gives me vertigo. Weird...
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by NZChris » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:58 pm

What are you trying to accomplish?

If you are wanting to drink it in the near future, how you treat and use the oak should be very different for if you want to age it for years.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:13 am

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:55 pm
I learned about airspace with my glass handles. Not a whole lot happened until I went with 25-30% airspace (consensus of HD members). Without a barrel's breatheability, glass vessels need the oxygen to interact with the spirits' compounds and provide a space for the volatiles to collect. After 3mos in (full) glass, all my spirit did was get hotter and look like weak tea. There are many important changes that happen during aging and oxygen is the catalyst.

https://www.iscbarrels.com/2018/01/30/o ... on-part-1/

https://www.iscbarrels.com/2018/04/16/t ... s-part-ii/
Thanks for the links, that was a very interesting read. I will have to look into this further cuz I had no clue that I needed any airspace. If I have 20% of airspace in the 5.2 gallon keg that means I could only put 4.4 gallons of liquid to be aged.


I do have one question, what if I was to fill it up to the five gallon mark and then periodically go and open the keg and let the volatiles air out in essence adding fresh oxygen to the mix. I'm sure I'll find the answer to that question when I'm poking around.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:15 am

NZChris wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:58 pm
What are you trying to accomplish?

If you are wanting to drink it in the near future, how you treat and use the oak should be very different for if you want to age it for years.
This is going to be a long-term storage type situation. I won't even think about bottling this until sometime late summer maybe even too late fall of next year. The goal is to try and have it ready for next Christmas.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:20 am

Here is the results of the toasting. I set the oven at 400 degrees and Let It Go go for about two and a half hours or so. The only thing left is to do the Char.
IMG_20200928_090323.jpg

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Twisted Brick » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 am

Sailman wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:13 am

I do have one question, what if I was to fill it up to the five gallon mark and then periodically go and open the keg and let the volatiles air out in essence adding fresh oxygen to the mix. I'm sure I'll find the answer to that question when I'm poking around.
Not enough oxygen - I discovered that the hard way. Sure, you’ll let out maybe 3-5% of ‘collected’ volatiles (random guess) but compare that to the daily cycling of oxygen in/volatiles out via the exchange surface area of a 5gal barrel.

Maybe just use two vessels with optimum air space?
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Deplorable » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:25 am

Thinking out loud here. What if he was to hook up an aerator to the OUTLET ball lock, and vent the INLET ball lock to atmosphere, and set up an inkbird to aerate daily for a few minutes. This would push air through the whiskey, and push volatiles out the vent.
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by NZChris » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:55 pm

If you only bottle enough for your needs, the rest will carry on improving.

I wouldn't go hooking up an aerator without reading what's already been posted.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:01 pm

I think I'm going to do like Twisted Brick suggested. I'm going to start with four gallons of spirit on Oak for aging, that will get me closer to the square inches that I need. Then when I cut it to drinking strength that will get me more than 20 750ml bottles.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by The Baker » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:03 pm

Sailman wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:01 pm
I think I'm going to do like Twisted Brick suggested. I'm going to start with four gallons of spirit on Oak for aging, that will get me closer to the square inches that I need. Then when I cut it to drinking strength that will get me more than 20 750ml bottles.
It will be an aging advantage if the bottles have corks.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:23 am

This really doesn't pertain to this thread but I guess it's my thread in if I want to Sidetrack it I can for a little bit. This is a sweet feed that I've had on Oak for about a month. I've been opening it up about once a week and letting it air out and giving it a good shake whenever I think about it. Usually when I open it up I stick my nose in it and smell and it burns the inside of my nose well today I did the same thing and it got me thinking. All I have been smelling was the volatile compound's on top of the liquid coming off so today I let it air out and then got another sniff. The burn on the nose is just about gone and I can start the smell a little Oak. I started with one gallon of a 116 proof on 2 oz of heavy Toast Oak chips which I found out that was too much. For the majority of this time it is only been on 1 oz.
IMG_20200929_091106.jpg

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Durhommer » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:41 am

Nice color
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:09 am

Thanks

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:39 pm

This is my first attempt at trying to char some Oak, how does it look I was trying for a medium.
IMG_20200929_173234.jpg

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Durhommer » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:05 pm

Screenshot_20200929-120825_Chrome.jpg
anyone use this barrel before Looks toasted from the pic honestly buddy you want it to alligator on you
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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by SaltyStaves » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:12 pm

Sailman wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:39 pm
This is my first attempt at trying to char some Oak, how does it look I was trying for a medium.
IMG_20200929_173234.jpg
Looks nothing like a char. More like a heavy toast. Although photos can be deceptive.
Char is literally black charcoal, which will rub off easily onto your fingers.

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Re: JD Oak stave question

Post by Sailman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:39 pm

IMG_20200929_202237.jpg
I added two more heat and quench Cycles through this wood. i run the touch across it until the center was glowing red and the edges were on fire.

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