The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by distiller_dresden » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 am

I had an idea for an extra line of business BadMo, which would be cheap and easy for you to produce:

Bung-staves - instead of shaving the bung off, it runs as a slimmer staff to the back-middle of the barrel. The bunghole would need to be made at a different angle, slightly 'up' so that the end of the stave pointed toward the middle/bottom/back of the bain marie. These could be different wood, like birch or cherry for butteryness/diacetyl, or even oak for more oaking where wanted. Then they could even be modified with grooves for more surface area. These custom 'bung-staves' could go for $10-15 bucks and be toasted to order as well...
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by AlChemE » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:58 am

Irishgnome wrote:
AlChemE,

Have you tried this yet? Has anyone else?
Looking to order some for my setup, just don’t want to toss $ down the drain if this is a waste of time.

Cheers!
- Irish
After some more reading and research, I found someone on this forum who used the same transducer setup on just a regular tank. I guess it only worked a number of times before it burned itself out. However, he did have good results. Maybe if it were to be kept much cooler it would extend the life of it?

I also read that the efficiency of the transducer is very dependent on the size, shape, weight, resonant frequency, etc on what it's mounted to. That's why the expensive ultrasonic machines are so expensive, they are tuned very well. So I decided to spend my money elsewhere and build a cigar box magnetic stir plate instead.

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Irishgnome » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:26 am

AlChemE
If I get some loose cash, I may try adding a ultrasonic transducer on a badmo barrel. I’ll let you know when and what happens.
Stir plates are just fun to watch :crazy:
Cheers
- Irish
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"if at first you don't succeed, try try try again"

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by dirtybird33 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:15 am

I have noticed some discussion on how long to age/season the american oak before building the heads. This article suggests that 18-24 months might be the optimum time to age the wood. I hope the link works.
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:51 am

Re: the wood age article: It sure would be nice if they would defin “aging”, “seasoning” and “air drying”. The article seems to interchange the terms without consistency. Too bad.
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by dirtybird33 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:33 am

Good points. I hadn't noticed that when intead the article. I will have to read it again and try to absorb a little more.

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by AlChemE » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:00 am

Wanted to show off the barrel head that I decorated recently. Designed on the computer, printed, then carbon copied to the wood, and tediously painted by hand.
20181001_220356.jpg

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by ydoih8u » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:15 am

Watched all your vids on YouTube. Very cool stuff. Wish I was handy enough to make one of my own.
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:03 am

Hi Badmo. Just wanted to share another success with your barrel design.

In my pre-barrel days I filled 8 quart jars with a bourbon sugar head and different amounts of toasted (some charred) oak sticks. After 8 months they had plenty of oak but were acrid, bitter, and all around nasty. I was a bit heavy on the oak to spirit ratio, and I also felt they were not getting the air they needed. Other than oak and a heavy toast/char, not much was going on. I set aside the two least offensive jars and put the other 6 into a new toasted/charred badmo style barrel. At 6 months in the barrel the spirit was still bitter and acrid, but I noticed more new smells including a heavy vanilla. I just tried this again at 8 months and all that bitterness and acrid smell is gone, and it’s a half way descent drink now. Those two jars I set aside are still crap. I’m gonna let it go a bit longer to see how it developers, but I’m happy that the bad smells and tastes have worked themselves out in my badmo.

I hope you are well my friend. Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by ydoih8u » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:43 am

Hi Badmo,

Sorry to hear about your recent troubles. I really like this idea but I'm a terrible woodworker lol. Any chance you have any heads you would be willing to sell?

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Hi Badmo. Happy new year to you.

I filled 6 badmo style barrels with panela rum a few months back and the head on one of the buggers kept popping out. Not all the way out, but if I let it go it could have made a real mess. I pressed the damn think back in a few times, even a little deeper, and it would still pop out on one side. Must have a bad angle on that end of the head and after popping a few times the shape of the stainless was a bit off. Anyway, I finally fixed it by welding a stainless tag to the end that was giving me trouble. No more problem. :D
Fixing a head that pops.
Fixing a head that pops.
Stainless tag
Stainless tag
This is the first time I’ve tried welding onto one of these pans. Did this on a TIG with a few spots at 110A but it was a bit too much. If I ever need to do this again, I’ll start around 90A. The wood got a bit burnt underneath, but better that than loosing a few gallons of liquid gold. :thumbup:

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Oldvine Zin » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:10 pm

Nicely done and I like your stainless bolt bungs :thumbup: :thumbup:

OVZ

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by AlChemE » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:37 am

Nice stainless tabs! I have been thinking about making a bracket for my barrels just in case I ran into your same issue. For us who don't have access to a welder, something like this would keep constant pressure on the barrel head. It would span the top of the bain-marie and grab on the lip, and then use a bolt to drive a bar down against the barrel head. Could be made out of metal, wood, 3D printed with plastic, etc. It is also removable in case there was a need to pop a new head into a bain-marie.
2019_01_10_08_30_32_Greenshot.png

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:56 am

Oldvine Zin wrote:Nicely done and I like your stainless bolt bungs :thumbup: :thumbup:

OVZ
Thanks OVZ. The bolts are a hell of a lot less work than making a tapered bung and bung hole and/or adding a spigot. It’s not as convenient for sampling as having a spigot, but for me that’s a good thing. :wink:

I throw a little wax in the hole after threading the bolt in once, and have never had a leak problem. The only thing I worry about is making sure the bolt is put in straight each time. It would be easy to put one in crooked and strip threads.

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by The Baker » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:27 am

Thanks, Alchem.
Simple and effective like most great ideas.

Geoff
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Irishgnome » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:08 am

AlChemE wrote:Nice stainless tabs! I have been thinking about making a bracket for my barrels just in case I ran into your same issue. For us who don't have access to a welder, something like this would keep constant pressure on the barrel head. It would span the top of the bain-marie and grab on the lip, and then use a bolt to drive a bar down against the barrel head. Could be made out of metal, wood, 3D printed with plastic, etc. It is also removable in case there was a need to pop a new head into a bain-marie.
2019_01_10_08_30_32_Greenshot.png
AIChemE,

PM me if you want one.
I can make out or stainless, hot or cold rolled and powder coat.
Looks like your BM has a rounded flange from the picture, mine flare straight out. I'd just need to confirm dimensions.

Also, I'm stealing that design! LOL :thumbup:

Cheers,
Irish
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by hpby98 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Badmotivator wrote:
hpby98 wrote:
Mostly cut just a bit over size length wise, and I’m guessing the big bow in the middles won’t straighten

Steam and then into a press to straighten

90 degree the sides with a router table

Dowel, cut to round and install

But it’s all theory.
I’ve done it, both with ex-bourbon and ex-wine barrel staves. Steaming and pressing totally works on all parts of the stave, even the middle. In the end I decided to stop doing it because of the extra work compared to using new wood.

Both barrels sources have their unique annoyances. Bourbon barrels have char that you will have to scrape off, which is a huge mess. Wine barrels will have tartrate crystals, which you should probably remove before steaming to avoid putting the tartrate into the wood, if that’s even possible. :)

In both cases, after flattening the wood you will want to plane them slightly and then re-toast them. After doing so, you will find that the wood is perhaps a little thinner then you might like, but it still worked for me even so.

Thanks again for the details

How’s the hand healing up?

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by still_chillin » Mon May 27, 2019 9:27 pm

Hi Badmo,

My lumber is almost to the 6 month stage. During the wait, I've been tooling up, building jigs, and practicing on pine 2x4's planed down to 1 inch.

Question on aging: the top sides are all gray, but the bottoms look almost new. Should I flip them and wait some more, or is it ok to have newish looking wood on the outside? They have been through freezing temps, 30 inches of rain, and now 90 degree days.

Question on thickness: I have a good lumber specialty store here in town. The thickest quarter sawn oak is something just over an inch thick. They say they never see full on 6/4 quarter sawn white oak. Do you see any problems with wood that is just over an inch thick once planed down?

Thanks for your awesome contribution to the craft!

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Tue May 28, 2019 7:03 am

still_chillin wrote:Question on aging: the top sides are all gray, but the bottoms look almost new. Should I flip them and wait some more, or is it ok to have newish looking wood on the outside? They have been through freezing temps, 30 inches of rain, and now 90 degree days.

Question on thickness: I have a good lumber specialty store here in town. The thickest quarter sawn oak is something just over an inch thick. They say they never see full on 6/4 quarter sawn white oak. Do you see any problems with wood that is just over an inch thick once planed down?
I can’t answer for Badmo, but I can share my experience in making his design.

I rotate my wood stacks on occasion. Top of stack to the bottom, visa versa. I also flip the wood every other stack rotation. Don’t know if it’s needed, but that’s how I do it and at a minimum it does not cause any problems. If you do not flip the wood, I would suspect that the side exposed to sun would be the side you want on the inside of your barrel head.

I do plane or joint off just a hair off of each face before toasting one face of the wood. The planer is easier for this, but if the wood has warped a bit or swelled in spots I will joint one side first because I have a bit more control and can minimize wood loss. I want the outside to look nice, though the inside does not need to be planned down perfectly to all new wood if that means the board will be getting too thin. Take as little as possible off of the side you will be toasting.

I have been successful with wood planned down as far as 7/8”. I’ve not tried thinner. I even made some 3 gallon barrel heads successfully with the 7/8” stock. The 3 gallon pans are about 1/2” larger diameter than the 2 gallon pans. I use a T&G joint, and I am not sure if biscuit joints or dowell joints would be a forgiving with thickness.

With thinner the wood, the more important it is to have a proper angle on the outer edge of the barrel head. For me, less angle is better than more angle. Too much angle will cause the head to “dip” a bit along the long axis of the wood. The thinner the wood, the more risk there is of this dip becoming a problem.

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by still_chillin » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:15 pm

Thanks for your advice Otis.

I went ahead and toasted some boards today for 96 minutes at 400F. I only toasted one side, per previous recommendations.

I sawed off a sliver from the sides to see how deep the toast went. The toast only looks like it went through a couple millimeters. The boards are a bit over 1 inch thick. Does this look right to you?

Image

Image

Image

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by OtisT » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:51 pm

I typically see more visible depth, but some pieces I do also look shallow like that from the side. Was there a piece of wood butted up next to this one, or was the side of the board simply exposed to the air? If the latter, the sides were likely cooler than the face so it is likely deeper toward the center of the board.

I see a variation in wood color on a few pieces now and again. An odd ball that does not darken exactly the same as the others. Not sure if it’s a different grain angle, density, or some other factor.

I tend to trust the time and ignore any of these variations I find. That’s just me.

The face color does look like what I would expect. I see a few places that look busted out (cracked), and I can’t see it but I’ll guess the wood is swollen out a bit along those cracks. I see that also in spots and believe it’s where there was more moisture deep down in the wood. Not a problem, just an observation. I use a moisture meter and only toast boards at 4% or lower and that seems to minimize that wood checking. The nice thing about only toasting one side is that the face should still be flat and square, versus the toasted side that may have those swollen spots. That flat side is the side used next to your tools for depth of your TnG or biscuit so the outside face of your barrel head is nice and flush. I do experience some swelling or rounding of the sides after toasting, and I like to give them a light pass on the jointer to re-square them before shaping with the TnG, to ensure a nice flush fit.

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by still_chillin » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:47 am

Laughing at the badmo video of charring the head "Grand Daddy has a flamethrower?!?!"

Any recommendations on charring without the flamethrower? I have a standard hand-held MAP gas torch, but wonder if it would char un-evenly and warp the wood.

How is everyone else doing it?

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Irishgnome » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:02 am

Still_Chillin,

I use my MAP gas torch.

No visible warping for me.

I freeze after toasting for a day then char.

Good luck!

Cheers
Irish
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Expat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:45 am

+1 mapp torch or propane for me also. Never had an issue.
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by rubber duck » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:39 pm

I've done 3 batches in mine. A rum, a whiskey, and a ricillia. I'm absolutely sold this is the perfect container for small batch hobby distilling. It gives the same effect as about a quarter barrel but you don't have to distill 15 gallons. This is so awesome.
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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Badmotivator » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Hi everybody! Sorry for the long quiet stretch. I'm still lurking around a bit.

I haven't been distilling or making barrels since my finger injury. Not because I can't or because I don't want to, I just fell way behind on lots of household maintenance and other projects and I remain thoroughly engaged with those things. The day will come when I fire up the still again and crank out more barrels, but I don't have a prediction about when that will be.

If you contacted me about purchasing barrels, I apologize for not returning your message. I should have at least responded, but I delayed doing that again and again hoping that I could write back with good news, and then never did. Regrets. Sadly, the answer has to be "no" until further notice.
rubber duck wrote:I'm absolutely sold this is the perfect container for small batch hobby distilling.
Yes man! I totally agree. Some day I hope to get more barrels in the hands of more home distillers.

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by MtRainier » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:40 pm

It really is the best idea. Hope you continue to heal well and stick around.

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by hellbilly007 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:57 am

Glad to hear that you're doing well BadMo

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by Irishgnome » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:51 am

Glad to hear you’re okay!
Don’t worry about my PM’s! The lack of response pushed my lazy ass do make my own badmos and play with alternatives as well. LOL
I still think badmo barrels are the best!

Cheers
Irish
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"if at first you don't succeed, try try try again"

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Re: The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by The Baker » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:14 am

Irishgnome wrote:Glad to hear you’re okay!
Don’t worry about my PM’s! The lack of response pushed my lazy ass do make my own badmos and play with alternatives as well. LOL
I still think badmo barrels are the best!

Cheers
Irish
I would like to know more about your efforts, Irish.
One day I will get something like your barrels, badmo, but don't know if I can get them from America, complete or just the oak ends, or whether anyone in Australia could do them...

Hang in there, badmo...

Geoff
The Baker

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