BT Quoting 76% Angel Share

[WIski]

It seems extreme to me that they are consistently loosing this much juice? Comments.......

[der wo]

It's absolutely true.
But did you ever taste a 15 years old bourbon? It's very different to the normal 4 years old ones.
And btw in Scotland the loss is much less because the colder and humid environment. So a 18 y old malt whisky is much cheaper than a 18 y old bourbon. For example the Eagle Rare 17 costs in my country 900$.

[Appalachia-Shiner]

That's why they are going to Tongue in Groove barrels for Pappy Van Winkle. Been so for several years now. Blanton's may be the next one to go in or some of the Eagle Rare destined for long aging.

[WIski]

That's why they are going to Tongue in Groove barrels for Pappy Van Winkle. Been so for several years now. Blanton's may be the next one to go in or some of the Eagle Rare destined for long aging.
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Appalachia-Shiner

That's interesting. I toured a cooperage in MN and they are doing this as well on their small barrels. I hope it works as I'm hating the thought of those kind of loss rates.

[The Baker]

If you were assembling (or re-assembling) your own barrel you could cut a groove in EACH side of each stave; then put them together with a strip of wood of the right width and thickness.
Geoff

[pfshine]

Losing 76% of your booze is enough to make a grown man cry. Interestingly the eagle rare only lost 66% while aging an extra year and eight months compared to the stag. Just goes to show environment is everything.

[der wo]

Losing 76% of your booze is enough to make a grown man cry. Interestingly the eagle rare only lost 66% while aging an extra year and eight months compared to the stag. Just goes to show environment is everything.

I have heard the night watchman of stag always forgets to close the doors and to shut off the light. After his retirement the taste will change and the price for the old bottles will rise dramatically...

[shadylane]

Losing 76% to the angel's seemed a little excessive to me so I did some searching.
Here's a link to a forum, the post also contains several links
http://forum.whiskymag.com/viewtopic.php?t=3507" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Edited: And most of the links are dead

[DAD300]

Construction of the barrels with tongue and groove...

I have waxed the outside of a leaking barrel, and would see this as a quick improvement to any barrel.

also been to places where the sprayed the barrels daily and humidified to keep the barrels tight.

[der wo]

The cheapest really old bourbon I know is the Jim Beam Signature Craft. The price for this 12y old bourbon is 35$ in my country. The taste is not very intense, the color lighter than other bourbons in this age. I cant believe, that they let evaporate over 60% while aging. It's too light and too cheap.
Is it allowed to seal a barrel, but nevertheless name it bourbon?

[DeepSouth]

I know this is an old post, but I thought I would revisit it and give some more numbers of my own. Based on Buffalo Trace's data from that release, the bourbon's and rye whiskies listed in that chart lost an annual rate of 8.0%, 4.9%, 6.8%, 8.9%, and 6.2% annually over their lifetime for the various brands. The major differences in those is going to be what warehouses were used and where in the warehouses. For example, their Eagle Rare 17 year comes from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd floors of certain warehouses. A warehouse with solid brick walls will age differently than one with sheet metal siding.

Some numbers from my personal distillery: 15 gallon barrels, I've lost an annual rate on average of about 9.7% per year. This is all from ground level storage in a warehouse that is not climate controlled with 14" thick solid brick walls, concrete floor. The climate is Central Mississippi, so hot and humid. My hypothesis is that the brick walled warehouse allows a very humid environment, and a little cooler than a metal sided building would be.

[Saltbush Bill]

I've lost an annual rate on average of about 9.7% per year.

Is that 9.7% of total barrel capacity each annum, or after the first year and subsequent years 9.7% of whats left in the barrel ?
From what my cooper has told me and from my own observation the lower the liquid level and the more the head space the faster the angels drink. They get real thirsty once the barrel is half full or less.

[DeepSouth]

I've lost an annual rate on average of about 9.7% per year.

Is that 9.7% of total barrel capacity each annum, or after the first year and subsequent years 9.7% of whats left in the barrel ?
From what my copper has told me and from my own observation the lower the liquid level and the more the head space the faster the angels drink. They get real thirsty once the barrel is half full or less.

The loss rate I stated is as a percentage of the remaining volume that year. Basically like compound interest. So after 2 years at 9.7% annual loss rate, the remaining volume wouldn't be 80.6%, it would be 81.5% of the original fill volume.

[HDNB]

haven't measured volume yet but i lost a full 5% ABV in 5 months in this cold dry climate. So much for the theory that water evaporates in dry climate and alcohol goes in humid climates.

[Saltbush Bill]

The loss rate I stated is as a percentage of the remaining volume that year. Basically like compound interest.

I thought that would be the case, just wasnt 100% sure.

[thecroweater]

Ah but Buffalo trace claim that the ABV is actually higher than barreling due to the temp and humidity in their rick houses so what they are loosing is mostly water when I hear that on the tour I thought wtf so we questioned the guy and yep we heard right

[WIski]

Crow Wrote

Ah but Buffalo trace claim that the ABV is actually higher than barreling due to the temp and humidity in their rick houses so what they are loosing is mostly water when I hear that on the tour I thought wtf so we questioned the guy and yep we heard right

This statement speaks and stands on its own and is well taken.

Looking at it from a pure economic view is another story. Selling at barrel proof (which is the case for some of those releases) would be not so good for the bottom line. But, if you where to add back water and proof to 80 or 90, your losses are negated. Not that they are losing money or are strapped for cash, just another view of the differing dynamics of how the angels can affect the outcome.

[thecroweater]

well OFC distillery trading as Buffalo Trace do a bunch of lines from a variety of mashes and how they are treated/aged, where and in what rick house varies. This is the same crowd that do, staff, Weller, Blantons, E.T Lee, pappy van winkle, etc they got a fair portfolio. I can't talk on them as what we looked at was the buffy trace line for white dog, buffalo trace through to eagle rare. My thoughts are this method makes economic sense and buffy is around $60 a bottle here so it must be liked and sell but I think its sub par, I don't think this sort of manipulated aging makes for a better aged whiskey. It is just my opinion but one that was share by those around me. We tasted the white ( which was remarkably awful) and although buffalo had a rich colour the aging had done little to improve the initial feints and all gustational assault, Eagle rare was considerably better but not my thing. I might be way off but what I take away from this is that a traditional aging with a normal angel share gives a result associated with a traditionally aged product. That is I think excessive loss of water to higher alcohols may not be the best way forward for quality but if it sells economically its a boon as that is their bread and butter mainstay bourbon.

[bilgriss]

I remember Eagle Rare as being really good, some years ago. But I bought a small bottle last year, and my impression was far less favorable. I read somewhere that BT has depleted all of the old blending stock from whatever distillery used to produce ER, and now it's just the same base stock as pretty much all the other bourbons, just aged and blended differently.