Flavor Lacking in Apple Brandy

[SilverSpirit]

I ran my first batch of Apple Brandy and it doesn't smell much of Apples. I am wondering what I did wrong (or what I can improve). I would describe the nose as delicate and slightly floral, but not much apple. The flavor is pretty smooth (especially given the high alcohol).

Here is what I did. I pressed 250L of Fuji apple juice. The apples came in at 16˚ brix and a pH a 4.05. I added 1.4g/L of malic acid to knock the pH down to 3.72. It was then inoculated with K1V-1116 yeast and 0.3g/L of Fermard K. At 7˚brix I add 0.1g/L of DAP and fermented dry. Fermentation temperatures were kept at 20˚C or lower. It was racked from the gross lees and then allowed to age sur lee for 5 months. The base cider smells of apples with a hint of caramel.

I did 3 stripping runs of 30L in a 40L alembic type still, and then one final run of the result in the still. I would say the stripping runs did smell of apples, and they came out clear, but with a slight hint of yellow / greenish color. Each stripping run lasted about 4 hours. The final run is crystal clear. It also took about 4 hours. In each case I turned the heat up high until the still temperature at the top of the neck hit about 60˚C and then I turned it down to do the run.

I would describe the final run as smooth tasting (given its age and alcohol level) but I am not experienced in tasting stuff this young or strong. The nose is pleasant but not distinctive.

I have plenty of cider left to try this again. What should I do differently to try and get more of that apple flavor I crave?

Feel free to ask me questions about the process because I may have missed important details.

[NZChris]

What was the abv of the collected low wines?

How did you go about selecting your final blend?

[SilverSpirit]

The low wines were about 30% ABV.

I haven't made a final cut yet. I discarded the first 100mL of each run, including the final run, and on the final run I collected into 1qt jars. I still have 12 of them labelled and sitting there trying to figure out how to make the cut.

[NZChris]

Make up representative samples before you finally blend it. A teaspoon is good for this.
Try samples with higher proportions of early and late jars.
You might get more flavor by leaving out the middle jar of hearts, often the least flavorsome part of the distillation.

[SilverSpirit]

Yes I think the very middle is the most "boring". I am wondering if I did the stripping runs too fast or too slow, or if the high heat to get the initial temperature up may be causing problems.

[NZChris]

I don't automatically throw out a foreshot from a fruit spirit run. Some fruit flavors come over very early and are needed in the blend to capture the fruit. Ethyl Acetate is often one of them, so I do everything by taste and keep the first off the still in the lineup in case it is needed.

Other fruit flavors come over late, so running to below 30% total low wines is very common.

Slow heat up for a strip allows time for chemical reactions to happen, so I like to hold back the first drip for at least an hour. If there are optimums for different products, I don't know what they are, but I would like to.

Once stripping, fast is best as it smears more.

Jimbo has done a lot of apples and has a great thread on it here somewhere.

[SaltyStaves]

I did my spirit run quite swiftly to begin with, in order to smear heads into the hearts (as per information I read regarding Calvados production).

[piperdave]

I keep my old 5 gal alembic copper still with a flake stand just for apple brandy. For whatever reason I don't get the same product outta my new pot still. I make it September every year for a couple weeks while apples are ready in my area and my old pot keeps tons of flavour. Just about ready to proof down my last few jars of the 2015 batch and I can't keep my buddies away. Just saying there's magic that happens sometimes that you can't explain.

[cranky]

Jimbo has done a lot of apples and has a great thread on it here somewhere.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 83&t=32309


My experience is that the apple flavor may take some time to show itself which can make blending problematic. One thing that comes to mind about flavor is the apples you used. Fuji is a good apple but it is also a dessert apple and tends to have a milder flavor than some other less sweet apples. I think a blend of apples is best if you can manage it but that all depends on overall cost, in my opinion the best apples are free apples The apple flavor tends to hide in the heads so you need to look for it there.

[SilverSpirit]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions.

I live in an area that is pretty generous for apple varieties. Are there particular ones I should seek out?

[cranky]

I live in an area that is pretty generous for apple varieties. Are there particular ones I should seek out?

Yes, the free ones Try to get a mix of varieties, Having sweet ones in the mix is good but don't use them exclusively, look for the smaller "spitter" apples. And all that stuff Chris already said.

[UrToopid]

I saw something the other day about using two distinctly different strains of apple.. one for tartness.. like for baking... and one for sweetness.. I think it was a Granny Smith and a Golden Delicious.. also.. the riper the fruit, the more flavorful and higher sugar content. Also, there is another way to get more apple in the final flavor and that is to save back a bit of your mash and use that to prime your thumper.


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[UrToopid]

In the spirit run, that is..


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[Lost in Tickfaw]

I have plenty of cider left to try this again. What should I do differently to try and get more of that apple flavor I crave?

I am pretty new to this also, but I have successfully made some Apple Rum that folks really enjoy. So I thought I would tell you what I would try.

Now you already have all this Shine from your first run, but not enough apple flavor. And you still have some Cider left.
I would filter clear the Cider (By clear I mean removing sediment), then simmer/reduce it down some, to make the flavor more concentrate. You could add some Brown sugar, cinnamon stick, or what ever at this time. Then use it to flavor the Shine you already made? I know this will take the alcohol out of the Cider, but if the flavor is what you like, seems you could have a lot more control over it this way?

I did something similar with a Rum I made. I dont like it real sweet, and I like a bit of Vanilla, and Cinnamon. So after adding a few ounces of my reduced Apples (Cider I bought at the local Farmers Market) to 70abv Rum, I would add a Cinnamon Stick, and a Vanilla Bean to it for about 2 days (or they overpowered the Apples). Then while removing the Bean and Stick I would reduce the abv to 45%. Folk are always asking when I will do it again.

Anyway, good luck.

[Pikey]

Rather than boiling, yoou could try "freeze distilling" - put some cider in a plastic bottle and freeze until partly ice. Pour off the liquid and taste - it will have got stronger and also the flavour will be concentrated - do it again and then perhaps try some of that in blending with a portion of your product ? Not saying it will be perfect or even work - but worth a try maybe ?

Edit:

[MDH]

Lalvin K1 is aggressive and tends to mute fruity characteristics, while embellishing its own character. This is why it's used so much in neutral whites. Either use wild yeast or find a strain especially suited to apple.

Secondly, the gross solid of apple actually contain a lot of flavor, and fermentation should occur on the apple pulp. The solids can be removed before distillation to make distillation more efficient.

Thirdly, the apples themselves should smell strongly of the apple, just by smelling the whole fruit. You can't use grocery-store quality fuji which are picked early and have virtually no aroma whatsoever if you pick up and smell them. If you did this, your apple brandy is as good as vodka.

Lastly, but not least, age the spirit out. Newmake often lacks character; the spirit will gain it back as it ages.

[NZChris]

Rather than boiling, yoou could try "freeze distilling" - put some cider in a plastic bottle and freeze until partly ice. Pour off the liquid and taste - it will have got stronger and also the flavour will be concentrated - do it again and then perhaps try some of that in blending with a portion of your product ? Not saying it will be perfect or even work - but worth a try maybe ?

I've done that. My freeze jacking doesn't go quite like Pikey described it, I freeze it solid, then thaw, but I didn't like the result at the time and still don't two years later. I suspect this is because it concentrates the acids as well as the sugar and flavors.

[Pikey]

You're probably right NZC - 'twas just a thought - others seem to be saying - "you done it wrong - nah nah ne nah nah" - I'm just tryin' to put forward a way of gettin' some flavour back ! - a little positivity instead of the negativity which others put forward.

I'm sure there's summat in "Heads an tails" which might help too !

[chickenfeed]

Are use a mix of apples including heavy on the granny smiths then I boil them to soften them up and run them through a food mill to remove the seeds. I also run the still very very slowly. I find the slower I run the still the better the fruit smells come over


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[papstoker]

I did some apples 6 months ago and the result was ok. Left one bottle with some oak in it. Opened it a few days ago and wow, the difference some time on oak made...