Uncharred barrel

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Opdog
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Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

The have 30 gallons of HBB in the fermenter that should be ready to run on Saturday. With that grain bill in mind I ordered a 5 liter barrel from oakbarrelsltd.com. The barrel was on sale for a very reasonable price with custom engraving. I had planned on filling it with HBB and giving it to my dad for Christmas in the assumption that he will not know the difference between a Gibbs and a generic barrel. It was a great plan until the barrel arrived the other day and it is uncharred. I went back and checked the listing. It clearly says not charred. Lesson learned - don't drink and click.

So no I'm trying to make the best of this situation. I see three options here:

1) run the HBB, make my cuts & drop it into a demijohn with cotton packing I the top and let it age until right before Christmas, then drop it into the barrel right before I give it to him (after appropriate soaking and leak testing).

2) Same as above but drop some T-Pee sticks in the demijohn

3) chalk the the whole thing up to a life lesson and order an appropriate barrel (I REALLY don't want to do this).

Any thoughts on how to salvage this are appreciated.

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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by HDNB »

open the barrel and char it?
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by still_stirrin »

Get some oak stave chunks. Char them and drill a hole through them. Then, put a cotton or hemp string through the hole and tie a knot. Stick them into the bung and add your spirit.

Put enough charred chunks in so that you get the char you want. The oak barrel will breath and allow the spirit to give up the "angel's share".

The string mounted chunks will allow you to remove them through the bung when it's time.

....just another option...
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

It's your father, order up a charred Gibbs and keep the raw oak for yourself! He deserves your best.

I gotta say, I don't remember running across anything about what raw wood does with spirits.
Seems like it would add wood and tannins maybe and not much else. But that might be enough to overwhelm any goodness you might get from sticks.

I like HDNBs suggestion, label the pieces, pop the hoops, and pry out one of the barrel heads, noting it's orientation to the barrel. Toast and or char the inside and reassemble.

Or you could keep the Gibbs yourself, do some solera aging with it, and occasionally pour off a couple bottles for your dad and yourself. That way you can always know you sharing something together, something special.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

I knew I could count on you guys to think outside the box (or barrel)

I considered taking the head off of the barrel and charring it myself by dumping in some heads and letting it go. My fear is that it won't go back together. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If it doesn't go back together, I still have time to call Gibbs. An extra week or so airing in glass won't hurt it. The down side is that I spent a lot of time with Gimp working on the logo and don't have the talent or equipment to transfer it to the Gibbs barrel.

MHC - I did some research. It sounds as though the uncharred oak will impart a lot of tannins and "wood" flavor. The barrel IS toasted, so it is better than raw wood. I


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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

SS - I have a chunk of white oak that I have been saving for a BadMo barrel. There is a little extra that I can cut off and try to drop in the barrel as a sort of T-Pee hybrid oaking. You have given me a lot to consider.


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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Ah, I jumped ahead, toasted could be fine uncharred, I was only afraid of raw wood.
Not sure I would take a toasty barrel apart, maybe back to the sticks idea?
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by HDNB »

i've read others experiments here, boisblancboy come to mind, that had opinions that toasted only was the right flavour profile for them. Taste being subjective it may be right for your dad and the whiskey you made for him too. And adding charred chunks seems a simple fix for that problem.

if the thing fits your oven, perhaps you could add toast.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by thecroweater »

If you are going to remove the heads and char it put the hoops back on first and wet the coze and chimes, they char and you'll have the devils own time resealing it. If you are just removing one end put a 1/2 inch of sand in the bottom and wet down the top chime and groove then use paper and some spent oak sticks to burn it. Personally I'd use it as is and suspend charred oak in if required .
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

HDNB wrote:if the thing fits your oven, perhaps you could add toast.
Don't do it! I think Badmotivator discovered that if you toast the wood through for a barrel it will never seal.
You can only toast/char the inner surfaces.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Truckinbutch »

Call me greedy . Got my Gibbs barrel soaking in water for 2+ months now and it is still losing liquid . Putting my best likker on oak in half gallon jars on the get go . That barrel quits giving the angels a drink of water and then maybie I'll entrust some of my AG to it . Tradition versus utility .
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by thecroweater »

Too long with water in it will bugger it, if it isn't taken up now its not going to. I thing I would be giving them a call.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Truckinbutch wrote:soaking in water for 2+ months now and it is still losing liquid .
Needs fixing or its buggered. A good well made barrel should seal up in 15 minutes if you put a few kettles full of hot water in it and turn it from end to end a few times.
Least that's what my cooper tells me , and hes been right so far.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by HDNB »

had one spring a leak after about 2 weeks of being full. rubbed some paraffin wax on the joint and put a heat gun to it. it's been dry since, about 6 months now.

last one i did took about 4 days of rolling back and forth. i just put some water in it and what didn't leak was absorbed so i didn't end up pouring out any oakiness.

who'd a thunk hot water? where were you geniuses and how come i never saw that thread? :oops: certainly give that a go next time. even piping in steam now seems like the thing to do.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Stargazer14 »

I get my barrels from the same place and the toasted have worked fine. If I want a little more char in the profile I put a quarter of the volume in some jars with charred sticks for a couple weeks then add it back in.
I'd say they are slighly more than' toasted' to begin with, if you look in you can see some slight char. You should be good!
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

Stargazer - thanks for the reassurance! I'll try it.

TB - I'm sorry that yours is leaking . That is a significant investment. I hope you get it worked out with Gibbs.


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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by WIski »

MCH Wrote'

It's your father, order up a charred Gibbs and keep the raw oak for yourself! He deserves your best.
I have a Gibbs Barrel. When I talked to the folks at Gibbs before ordering they told me their heads are not charred or toasted. So that means RAW WOOD. Compared to the barrels I have gotten from The Barrel Mill, there is no comparison in the amount of flavor and color that is imparted on the liquid. The Barrel Mill barrels do it much faster and deeper. YMMV :eugeek:

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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Oldvine Zin »

WIski wrote:
MCH Wrote'

It's your father, order up a charred Gibbs and keep the raw oak for yourself! He deserves your best.
I have a Gibbs Barrel. When I talked to the folks at Gibbs before ordering they told me their heads are not charred or toasted. So that means RAW WOOD. Compared to the barrels I have gotten from The Barrel Mill, there is no comparison in the amount of flavor and color that is imparted on the liquid. The Barrel Mill barrels do it much faster and deeper. YMMV :eugeek:

Fathers do deserve the best........ :thumbup:
So instead of a rapid color and perceived age - I always go with a Gibb's barrel for the the long term age - your father deserves the best

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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Oldvine Zin wrote:
So instead of a rapid color and perceived age - I always go with a Gibb's barrel for the the long term age - your father deserves the best

OVZ
+1

Gibbs are the standard by which other barrels hope to be compared to. You can do no better, IMO. :thumbup:
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I actually have some HBB in jars right now with toasted sticks, no char, and after 6 months it has great color and lots of great oak flavors.

The size of your barrel is a consideration, it will add color/flavors much faster than a larger barrel.
Maybe keep your whiskey in jars until October or even November so that it doesn't get over oaked.

If you dad doesn't drink it up fast enough you could always add some more new make to the barrel later to lighten the oaking and extend the use of the barrel.

Sure sounds like a nice project, I have to settle for store bought from my boys. :)
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

That is a great idea. I will probably do that.

I typically leave a lot of head space in my jars and remove the lids periodically for an hour or so to let the volatiles out. Do any of you do the cotton wadding in the top of a demijohn? I usually do jars and sticks for my personal consumption.

Checked the mash this morning and it was still bubbling slowly. I thought that I was going to rack it tonight, but it looks like it will have a day or so yet in the fermenter. This will probably be a next weekend run.


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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by WIski »

OZ Wrote'
So instead of a rapid color and perceived age - I always go with a Gibb's barrel for the the long term age - your father deserves the best
Oldvine Zin, My comment was to point out that Gibbs freely admits to having RAW OAK exposed to the liquid inside their barrels as a proof of concept to others that were commenting that raw wood may not be a good thing. Gibbs has a great reputation. I also wanted to point out that the barrels from the Barrel Mill are FULLY charred and impart their flavor and color much more robustly than the Gibbs. I have several of each brand in 5 and 10 gallon sizes and have NO misconceptions or FALSE perceptions as to the age of the product. Age is a hard science STS. Age is time. It cant be changed.

The post wasn't meant to be an advertisement or a cheerleading performance for any particular barrel maker as it seems to have morphed into here now. I don't get any free stuff for pushing certain brands as others do. But since the balloon has been released I will say, I do also prefer the flavor profile of the Fully Toasted #3 Char Barrel Mill barrel over the Gibbs. YMMV :eugeek:

Honestly OZ, have you compared both products?
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Oldvine Zin »

WIski wrote:
Honestly OZ, have you compared both products?
Ok I kind of sound like a cheerleader for Gibb's, I do like the flavors that they impart.
I haven't tried the Barrel Mill barrels yet, but the other day a chance to compare a couple of rums, both aged 1 year, 1 in a used Gibbs and the other in a used Black Swan. Also got to compare some less aged HBB, Gibbs and not. The consensuses was the Gibbs had a nicer oak profile.

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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Opdog »

I case anyone is following along - it is getting racked tonight. I opened up the fermenter to take an sg reading and discovered that it has lacto which isn't bad, but I want to get it racked and cleared so it doesn't go too far. It is down to just under 1.01 from about 1.06, so I'm going to call it done.
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by TDick »

First - I AM A NEWBIE! :mrgreen:

Second - I'm a little crazy or I wouldn't be here!
An alternative suggestion.
Fill up a squirt bottle with a nozzle - like ketchup - with some NSG
Go outside.
Squirt JUST A SMALL AMOUNT in the bung hole of the keg and light it.
(By small, I mean just enough to get a small flame, not enough to blow the keg and your eyebrows off!)
Feed the flame to keep it going and rotate the barrel long enough to put a char on the inside.
Maybe not the best alternative, but it might just work.
BTW. MAKE SURE SOMEONE VIDEOS IT! If it doesn't work, you might just win $10,000 on America's Home Video.
Good luck and post pictures either way!
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by Truckinbutch »

Let me clarify a recent post of mine . I am quite happy with the quality of my Gibbs barrel . Given the conditions I was hydrating it in it simply took more time to seal itself .
There is no lack in quality of manufacture . All goods worth price charged .
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Re: Uncharred barrel

Post by vernue »

i've never tried this, just thinking, but could you just get a bunch of charcoal briquets nice and hot and tong them into the bung hole, rotate every 5 minutes or so, and char the insides like that. flush with water and then shake out the remnants. i guess it would be hard to tell how charred it was getting, but it might be good enough for gov't work.
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