Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

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pintoshine
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Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pintoshine » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:20 pm

I would like to pass on an Idea from pour god friend Pigroaster. I get e-mails from him regularly even though he doesn't post much anymore.

Toaster oven Pigroaster Custom Toasted Oak shapes
Side view of sticks by Pigroaster
Side view of sticks by Pigroaster
IMG_5079.JPG (20.58 KiB) Viewed 33040 times
I used 5/8 inch thick air dried white oak 2 7/8 or 4 3/8 or 5 7/8 inches wide and set table saw fence at 1/8 inch and saw cut ¼ inch deep. Make first cut on all sides top and bottom (4 cuts) Move fence ¼ inch to right and do 4 more cuts. Eventually you will end up in the middle. Make the cut board into 5/8 or 11/16 strips by using band saw and cut down between two cuts. This gives one side of the oak stick 11/16 inches in size if you do not wander when you cut. The surface area of all that is left is almost the same. 1/8 inch thick!
End view of profile by Pigroaster
End view of profile by Pigroaster
IMG_5081.JPG (16.11 KiB) Viewed 33033 times
Toast in toaster oven in middle rack spot covered tightly in aluminum foil.
First batch: 400F for 1 ¾ hours and 450F for 15 minutes. Result medium toast. I cut 6 ½ to 6 ¾ in length so the oak will not get wedged in a gallon glass jug.
Toasted sticks by Pigroaster
Toasted sticks by Pigroaster
IMG_5086.JPG (21.14 KiB) Viewed 33020 times
Second batch: Used foil from first batch and added second layer due to a few holes in first layer from batch 1. 400F for 1 ½ hours and 450 for 35 minutes. Smoke coming from toasting oven (outside) Results are darker. Now to test them!

Surface area of stick 5/8 x 5/8 x 6 1/2inches long including two ends = 5/8 x 5/8 x 6 ½ x 4 sides plus 5/8 x 5/8 x 2 (ends) = 11.34375 inches

Surface area for new model. 8 areas x ¼ x 6 ½ = 13 plus surface area ends (.78125) (2 ends) minus 8 surface areas (2 ends with 4 in each end) x ¼ x 1/8 =1/4 inch of removed area = .53125. New surface area of Pigroaster shapes = 13.53125 plus old surface area not counting ends 10.15625 = grand total surface area: 23.68875 of surface area in square inches.
The results of this exercise is to create a new surface area over twice the original plus having an even toasting depth on all surfaces exposed to the toasting process! This uses all the good qualities in each oak stick and allows only 1/16 inch penetration from each surface for the liquid to meet in the middle. Wow what a creation.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:11 pm

Very nice.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Dnderhead » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:34 pm

I can grind a knife and run threw molder , how many thousand feet you want?

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by HookLine » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:47 pm

I am not sure I get it.

What is the advantage of doing it this way, compared to just splitting the wood into 1/8" thick flat sticks to start with? Just splitting has the advantage of not wasting any wood in cutting/routing out the channels used in Pigroaster's version (or the spiral cut version).

Have I missed something obvious?
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Husker » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:59 pm

Every cut wastes wood. Now, if you have a super fine band saw (say 1/32"), if you cut that 5/8" into 8ths, you would get get 4 slats from it.

That would be 5/8" x 2 + 1/8" or 11/8" * 4.

However, most people will cut wood with a blade that is closer to 1/8 (or even 3/16").

So you will end up with much more waste.

I think the pattern shown, is pretty wood friendly, in relationship to amount of final wood, and finished surface area. With a 1/8" blade, you will lose half the wood. I think there is more than half the wood left when cut into this pattern.

H.

Edit, I now re-read you post, and you talk splitting. If you do split, then that might be more "friendly". Doing it like they talk about in Foxfire (oak splits).
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pintoshine » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:44 am

I have tried the 1/8 inch splits years ago. The problem I encountered using very straight splits was that the small planks tended to clump together and prohibit fluid contact. The spirals and the pigroaster molding pattern keep the pieces from stacking up that way. I have even had a bit of problem using square pieces of oak. I have to shake the pieces regularly because the realign with each other when they sink to the bottom.
When the spirals sink, the openings are aligned nearly vertical. If there is a heat difference in the jug, convection keeps the fluid moving through them. These rectangular ones would be better in a tall thin bottle where the wood would stay more vertical.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Asohosy » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:13 am

Same idea as Infusion Spirals from http://www.thebarrelmill.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
More wood surface area in contact with hooch.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by BW Redneck » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:29 am

It would be great if this sort of thing could be better adapted to use more end grain surface area rather than edge grain. I saw somewhere on here that you get 8x the infusion with end grain over edge grain. The point of the spirals is not only to maximize overall surface area, but also to maximize the end grain area, IIRC.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Hawke » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:07 pm

If you wanted more end grain, you could use a 1x6 and cross-cut it for the same profile. It would be a lot more fragile and may require more filtering.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by HookLine » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:52 pm

pintoshine wrote:I have tried the 1/8 inch splits years ago. The problem I encountered using very straight splits was that the small planks tended to clump together and prohibit fluid contact. The spirals and the pigroaster molding pattern keep the pieces from stacking up that way.
Good point.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:48 pm

I have found something out that no-one has published on the forum. When toasting oak you need a small pin prick or two in foil to get proper toast. Last night's dark toast experiment was double foil wrapped. One package came out dark toasted and the other looked as if it had not been toasted at all. Neat eh!

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by BW Redneck » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:37 pm

I've noticed that too. You need some way to let the expanding air and pyrolysis gases to escape.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by MountedGoat » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:45 am

Is there a large nationwide store that sells a form of oak that I can do this to? As of now I don't know anyone that is selling oak logs and I want to try this out if possible.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Husker » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:50 pm

I have done this with material from barrel staves. Not the "exact" pattern, but close.

H.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by jim81147 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:24 pm

Pinto , have you tried pigroasters profile with your charring method ? If so did you like the results . I would think that if combining the two methods you would get alot more contact area( from the extra square inches in the profile and the micro cracks from the high heat toast ) which should speed up aging time?

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pintoshine » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:02 pm

No honestly I haven't yet. When i got these pics from pigroaster I had already put my stuff on oak using my method and had nothing else left to age.
I'll try it as soon as I get my new corn masher.

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Re: Pig Roasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pitch&play » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:56 am

I wonder if the starting moisture content has an effect on finished product and what level would be best after toasting. I have some white oak air drying at different stages. Also wonder if a quick toast, such as using a torch would be better for retaining the favor in oak, after all the toast is mostly for color. Might have to do some research on this.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:52 am

You want it air dried so that no mold would form before it hits your spirit. You want the wood exposed to weather for a year or so before you start this journey. Do not use kiln dried oak. I prefer white oak because it is not as porous as red oak. Use heart wood. Our growth rings are closer together in Canada making a better oak to expose to spirits(sometimes 10 growth rings per inch). Think 8 % moisture! A mapp torch gives good crocodile finish and opens up the oak for the exchange of goodies. If you use my profiles remember a little oak over a longer time is better than overdoing it! I am using 4 profiled sticks per gallon on scotch. Most saw mills cutting hardwood have cover boards of oak that protect their piles that have the potential of becomming good spirit aging sticks. Some could be ash so watch the grain!!

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by alcodemon » Mon May 18, 2009 10:58 pm

Hi all,

I'm new to distilling and have bought a small packet (100g) of Essencia Bourbon Chunks. They are about 3/4" x 1"

pieces. The instructions say to add to 2 litres of 40% ABV and soak for 14 days.

Now I've read this forum and find that it is better to charcoal them.

Is it best to use them as they come, or slice them into thinner pieces.

Can they be re-used?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by MuleKicker » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:31 am

reuse, i think would be along the same concept as the way barrels are reused for scotch. you will get a more mellow result the second time around
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by UnclePaul » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:05 pm

I found a handfull of white oak pieces I had left over from making a dresser for my daughter just last month. They have been laying around for at least two years out of the weather.
My experiment with them is I boiled them in a sugar syrup for about thirty minutes. Then I took them to the grill and stood there turning them like they were a piece of chicken over hot flames.
Now they are soaking in quart jars of some tasty corn mash. They were about 3/4 X 3/4 X 5 inches. I put two in each quart jar. After about two weeks they have already started changing the color really nice. I haven't tired to sample any yet.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Whitedog » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:16 am

pigroaster wrote:... saw mills cutting hardwood have cover boards of oak that protect their piles that have the potential of becomming good spirit aging sticks. Some could be ash so watch the grain!!
Whats wrong with using Ash? I read somewhere that Wild Turkey uses Ash barrels... WD

Edit: I went to their website and it says they use White Oak.

Does anyone currently use Ash for aging?

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Husker » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:19 pm

Ash if toasted or charred would likely give some color, but would not likely give the flavors you want (vanillin, and the wonderful-super complex stuff that oak does).

I have heard people doing it with Maple, and again, you get color, but not the wonderful flavors / bouquet of oak.

H.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Dnderhead » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:46 pm

Iv tryed ash ,not much flavor to it,but a ash barrel whould be nice for rum/brandy or other you wanted to age with out the oak profile.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by newdistlr » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:36 pm

Pigroaster... you say "Do not use kiln dried oak." How come? Our local lumber store had some white oak for about $2.00 a bf. Quite a deal...

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

The wood needs to release some of the cell materials that only come from natural weathering. The sun and rain will allow this to happen. Barrel makers need natural air drying to allow for steaming to bend the staves for barrels. It will make a difference. Try to get heart wood.

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Re: Pig Roasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:52 pm

pitch&play wrote:Also wonder if a quick toast, such as using a torch would be better for retaining the favor in oak, after all the toast is mostly for color. Might have to do some research on this.
All due respect but the slow toast is better - raises the whole stick to that right temp and caramelises the wood sugars as opposed to simply buring the outside; this is how it has been explained to me anywho. This said, at time you may wnat some actual char or some lightly toasted wood for a different, more complex flavour profile; then bring on the MAPP!
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:50 am

New update twist. I now cut sticks 1/2 or 9/16 x 9/16 x 6-7 inches long and charr. Use them in a batch. (at least 3 months at 63% ABV, 2 months at 53% ABV and remaining time {13 months} at 43% ABV.) I taste as process starts 12 months total to check taste profile. Mouth feel increases with time!!! Angels share from airing = 1-2 % so end product is about 40-41% ABV. After batch number one, I take the used sticks, set table saw at 1/8 inch deep and use small push stick and cut a slot 1/8 x 1/8 in the middle of each face. Charr the sticks and get another use from them. At least two great uses per batch plus after using them, you can use them to smoke with in your BBQ or smoker! I store in deep freeze between uses. I feel this uses all the wood more efficiently than my first post!

Be careful on the table saw. Clamp a small piece of wood on the fence to protect you from the blade throwing any wood pieces back at you! A router could also be used.

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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by clacker » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:02 pm

pigroaster wrote:New update twist. I now cut sticks 1/2 or 9/16 x 9/16 x 6-7 inches long and charr
How does the charr process differ to your instructions of toasting from your first post?

As i don't have a torch, I was going to toast to your initial instructions and then charr two sides over my wok burner on the BBQ as suggested in another thread.
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Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:33 am

I now use the Mapp torch rather than toaster oven as i feel it is more like the barrel guys do when they char the inside of real barrels. The major difference is I now use charred sticks once in a batch. After done 19 months later, I cut profile 1/8 inch deep in centre of each side on table saw. Char again and use again in another batch or two, The third time I use 2 sticks used and 4 new sticks charred per imperial gallon or 5 per USA gallon,, Then I use them for smoking meat. Use what you have but go for a char with depths of toasting. If I had your set up I would toast oak sticks first, then char so all the taste profiles are present to the spirits when you start aging at 63 % ABV, Then 53 %ABV and finally 43% ABV.

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