Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
Odin
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6844
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 am
Location: Three feet below sea level

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Odin » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:17 am

Do you get that great vanilla taste & smell with those times? Or are they released, like in my profiles, after around 75 minutes?

Regards, Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.

User avatar
Bushman
Global moderator
Posts: 15065
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Bushman » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:19 am

Odin I use the same method as you with the holes but I do it on the BBQ outside as to not smell up the house. Just did some plum wood 1/2"x1/2"x4" the other day.

User avatar
Odin
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6844
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 am
Location: Three feet below sea level

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Odin » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:45 am

But what makes you stop the toasting process? That great vanilla taste & smell? Or do you toast even after that? I am looking for a sweet spot that can help me further improve my whiskey ...

Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.

User avatar
Bushman
Global moderator
Posts: 15065
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Bushman » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:58 am

I found that I run my BBQ at a medium temp and not to waste the propane I usually char while BBQ a fish dinner. I don't do it with the steaks as I don't want that flavor in the wood. The wood usually starts to smoke before the fish is done that is when I pull it.

ShineRunnah
Swill Maker
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:44 pm

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by ShineRunnah » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:32 am

Decided to do a bit of an experiment with profiled oaking sticks.

The complexity of flavors from using toasted and charred oak, as I understand, comes from the spirit contacting charred, toasted and the "raw" or less toasted center portion of the wood. As most profiled oaking sticks impart flavor and color faster, the spirit thus has less time to soak into the wood, and in turn less time to allow the center portion of the sticks to work their magic. And with many of the profiles used, the sticks are essentially thinner and will toast deeper into the center in a given amount of time than would a straight profile stick with the same outside dimensions. Basically, due to shorter oaking time and and a lower amount of "raw" oak in the center of the sticks, we are lessening any affect this "raw" oak could have on our spirits.

My thoughts on how to avoid the issue, if it is in fact an issue or having any effect, was to toast and char prior to cutting the profile, and vary the cut depths in an attempt to regulate the amount of contact the spirit has with different areas of the stick, ie: toasted, charred and raw.

I used 1" x 1" sticks, and made cuts with a thin-kerf 10" tablesaw blade on 2 opposing faces. On one side the center cut is 5/8" deep and the outer cuts are 7/16", and the other has five 1/4" deep cuts. I also took a few and lightly charred the side with 5 cuts after making the cuts with a small butane pencil torch, just to add another aspect to my testing.

For a baseline, I also made some 1"x1" sticks, "standard" pigroaster sticks and some with cross-grain cuts, toasted and charred them along with my test sticks, being careful to char them as consistently as possible.

I have 16 quarts of Booner's all corn that will be used to test my theory. I ran a fast strip then a spirit run and proofed to 66%. I haven't decided how long I will oak for yet, and I am open to suggestions. Probably until it looks good.

I'm not sure if I'm this is a real issue or if I'm wasting my time. Figured the best way to find out is do some testing! Be a month or so before I have any results, and will start a new thread if it produces results worth mentioning.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions or other input are welcome!

User avatar
Odin
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6844
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 am
Location: Three feet below sea level

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Odin » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:59 am

I just put a new profile in the oven. Set at 210 degrees C. This time only for 75 minutes, instead of 90. I am after those sweet vanilla taste & smell!

Making rye whiskey at the same time, so let's see how this works out.

Regards, Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.

Fidget
Novice
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Fidget » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:25 pm

Keep up the good work and the findings, it is all very very much appreciated :)

User avatar
Odin
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6844
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 am
Location: Three feet below sea level

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Odin » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:35 pm

75 minutes gives less coloration. The whiskey isn't as dark as the 90 minute one. Or maybe it just goes slower. I will know in a few months if it gives more of that great vanilla taste.

Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.

User avatar
ron71157
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:20 pm
Location: sunny southwest

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by ron71157 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:37 am

GeeWhiz stuff,

For fun check out this website:
http://www.timeandoak.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

looks familiar to me. Pigroaster should get a cut of the proceeds.

Have Fun.
I wake up every morning at the crack of ice

Fidget
Novice
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by Fidget » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:05 pm

Anyone had much success purely toasting (blue flame) their chunk / chip of white oak? Is it possible to get good results without doing the 45 To 90 min bake ?

Separate question, could it retrospectively bake a chunk that's already been toasted and quenched in wine?

:)

chris8sirhc
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:07 pm

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by chris8sirhc » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:45 pm

ron71157 wrote:GeeWhiz stuff,

For fun check out this website:
http://www.timeandoak.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

looks familiar to me. Pigroaster should get a cut of the proceeds.

Have Fun.
Ive been doing alot of research on "oak alternatives" and wine makers have known for some time that end grain produces a substandard "paper bag'ish" taste compared to side grain. Ive gone through about 25 different companies making oak alternative products for the wine industry and there seems to be a consensus. End grain is to be avoided if at all possible, and end grain takes about a month to extract, vs 3+ months for side grain to extract. It seems coopers not only avoided end grain in barrel construction for leakage purposes, they did it for flavor purposes as well, if only by accident though.

that product on time and oak is basically a TON of end grain. You can read a review here, it doesn't work well...

http://gizmodo.com/we-tried-this-whiske ... 1647799090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

User avatar
ranger_ric
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1277
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:24 pm
Location: West Of Eden

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by ranger_ric » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:36 pm

Shine runnah....
Looking forward to you posting up those results
If you are not willing to learn
No One Can Help You...
If you are Determined to Learn
No One can STOP you!!
We want you to be safe and succeed so start here

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by kiwi Bruce » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:46 pm

I use the same sticks as ShineRunnah. I like Pigroasters idea better as the cuts are exposing the spirit to the long grain of the oak and not the short grain. I feel the long grain gives a more tannic taste. I put four 1" X 1" sticks in a half gal mason jar of untreated spirit for 24 Hr then replace them with twice used sticks until I get the results I like. I'm using the staves of a used bourbon half barrel that had come apart. The local ACE hardware gave it to me for five bucks. Kiwi Bruce
Attachments
Whisky stick.jpg
Getting hung up all day on smiles

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by kiwi Bruce » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:15 pm

I found this today, its from Black Swan Cooperage. Interesting. They recommend an inch per gallon for six months. Several different woods available. Kiwi Bruce
Attachments
Honeycomb wood.jpg
Getting hung up all day on smiles

chris8sirhc
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:07 pm

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by chris8sirhc » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:45 pm

From everything Ive read from the industry and my own experiments (isolating end grain vs side grain as the only variable) the end grain imparts a tanic brown paper bag flavor, and side grain imparts a desirable flavor (barrels only have side grain exposure).

Based on my experiments, I would definitely go with the profile on page one of this thread over those last two profiles any day of the week.

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by kiwi Bruce » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:13 pm

I had to try PR's sticks, here are my copies. Kiwi Bruce
Attachments
New Oak Sticks.jpg
Getting hung up all day on smiles

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:54 pm

Good to see you guys still looking at my discovery. End grain is not your friend aging wise. Hard to believe this topic is still active, Age on!!!

User avatar
bearriver
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:17 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by bearriver » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:39 pm

Good to hear fro you pigroaster! It must be nostalgic looking at a 7 year old thread.

ptofimpact
Novice
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:14 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by ptofimpact » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:26 am

Maybe a dumb question as I am new here, but I have some Staves from a Charred old Bourbon barrell. If cut into pieces would they add anything to something home made, or clear store bought?

User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
Posts: 7890
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by still_stirrin » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:17 am

ptofimpact wrote:Maybe a dumb question as I am new here, but I have some Staves from a Charred old Bourbon barrell. If cut into pieces would they add anything to something home made, or clear store bought?
Probably so.

Read around...there's lots of stories regarding old bourbon barrel staves.

Also, you should read the "spoon feed" thread in my signature too. There is much good info there (hopefully to answer questions like this).
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
Enzyme info: SebStar
All about mashing grains: Braukaiser

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:06 pm

Merry Christmas fellow OAKERS! Patience and time are still the keys to tasting magic liquids!!!

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Sat May 12, 2018 8:31 am

It is good to see so many fans using my method to get good vanilla flavours and better mouthfeel using white oak without getting the end grain harshness. It is almost like using a wooden barrel!!
Thanks for your supportive comments. Brew on and age wisely!

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sun May 13, 2018 1:50 pm

PR you are welcome! Best whisky I ever aged was using your sticks, one of the best ideas on HD...EVER! Pure genius! Brew on and age wisely!
Getting hung up all day on smiles

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Sun May 13, 2018 2:45 pm

I should get samples to do quality control! Thanks!

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Sun May 13, 2018 2:46 pm

In case you have a killer recipe. Please post it! Or send me a Private message post. Thanks

spiff
Swill Maker
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:35 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by spiff » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:26 am

One thing I haven't seen anyone worry about: oil from your chainsaw contaminating your wood. Worse, I use used motor oil for the chain lube, you can see it left on the cuts.

For me, I'll use a bow saw to re-cut my pieces being used for this purpose and a hatchet to split into fingers.

pigroaster
Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Canada: Where fish say "Eh"

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by pigroaster » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:34 am

I would not use a chainsaw to make sticks. My cut off saw removes any saw area that the chainsaw has been near after the logs have been cut. I leave the cut boards outside in the elements for at least a year to weather and get ready. Bow saw would be great tool to use. Funny to see this still active. I just pulled some scotch last night and it was outstanding cut with a splash of water. When I bottle I leave one stick in each bottle.

spiff
Swill Maker
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:35 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by spiff » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:35 am

Right on. I'm just now getting ready to try some aging on oak so I started some reading and a lot of the threads spoke of their cuts of firewood or referenced using the chainsaw and no one expressed concern so I figured I would say something.

Regarding the optimal profile topic of this thread... I wish I had a nice fancy band saw or table saw. Like I said, I'll just be splitting off finger sized splinters using a hatchet. I'm hoping that there is an advantage to the uneven thickness in that I'll get more variations of what will be leeched out.

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by kiwi Bruce » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:11 pm

spiff wrote: I'm hoping that there is an advantage to the uneven thickness in that I'll get more variations of what will be leeched out.
Not from the oak alone...split your spirit into three or four batches and age each batch using wood with a different amount of toasting/char, ranging from heavy to moderately light. The spirit will draw different taste tones from each of the woods, now you do a sipping test and blend them together to get the flavors you like. It's predictable and repeatable. Start using a shot class and keep very good notes...
This is one of the only times that the metric system makes absolute sense...
There are 20 drops in 1 cc
44.5 cc's in a shot (about)
15000 drops in 750 mls
25 one oz shots in a fifth, or 16 regular 1.5 oz shots
the rest is just "do the math" and you'll be able to accurately "up-size" from a shot to a fifth...
Getting hung up all day on smiles

spiff
Swill Maker
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:35 am

Re: Pigroasters new optimal profile for oak aging sticks

Post by spiff » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:52 am

Thanks for the tips kiwi.. but I already started on my 6 gallon carboy as a one shot for the batch. I'm not a big whisky drinker either.. this is just for fun and to give away, pretty much.

Speaking of which, is there an optimal ratio of wood to volume? I have about 2 lbs of charred/toasted slivers in the 6 gallon carboy. About 2 fat handfuls of finger sized 6in slivers. It was leeching tannins pretty good the first couple days but tapered off.. its been 2 weeks now and the whole 6 gallon carboy barely has the yellowed darkness of a normal light scotch whiskey, which is what I'm going for, but for a shot glass, not a carboy. So if I suck some up in a turkey baster you can barely see the color. So now I'm wondering if I should just let it ride out with time to continue darkening or if doing so might impart undesirable flavors using so little wood. Not being the whiskey drinker myself, the plan was to get the light golden color I wanted, then rack off to remove the wood and then let age for a year. And let the stilling gods do as they wish with how it turns out.

But now I'm wondering if I'm better off adding more. What lengths of time do you guys usually keep the wood fingers in yours and what ratio's when using the chip in jar method vs barrel aging?
TIA

Post Reply