Results from aging with pinhole in PTFE lids?

[WithOrWithoutU2]

I have read about people suggesting aging on glass with oak sticks and a pinhole in PTFE lids with allow breathing along the way. However, I have not found anyone who reported actual results with using a pinhole for the breathing instead of shaking and opening.

So, has anyone actually tested using a pinhole in PTFE that can report the results?

I have a jar with an oak stick a PTFE pinhole aging now. After a month, little to no drop in ABV. The pinhole is so small, the plastic pretty much self sealed again. Not sure I am getting any breathing, but I'd rather go too slow than too fast. Time will tell if I need to make it slightly smaller. In terms of taste, nothing significant to report. Although, I do not think I'm the best for testing if this method helps with taste as I don't think I make a good pre-aged product yet

So I'd appreciate if others could report how aging with a pinhole has worked out. If you can give details in terms of size of jar, lid and pinhole size as well as drop in ABV over time I think it would help.

[Saltbush Bill]

I've done it with a hole bigger than pin size..more like a small nail hole.....it works well in my opinion.
Might report later if/when I get time.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

Thanks SB.

I am still learning the basics but in my novice mind I think a pinhole lid would allow for the breathing. I'm also ensuring I only fill the jar 3/4 full but I have the charred oak stave the length of the entire jar. While I am not sure it is true, I've read this allows the product to go in an out of the wood more readily as opposed to having it completely submerge in the product.

[Saltbush Bill]

Yes it lets the spirit breath and gets rid of some of the alcohols we dont want. I filled the containers I experimented with and left them for more than a year....lost surprisingly litte product.
With a hole in the lid there will be no pressure changes within the container so there is no " in an out of the wood" as such. 

[8Ball]

I leave my lids a little loose with a coffee filter. Allows for aur exchange. Works for me.

[Saltbush Bill]

I used coffee filters to cover the hole to 8bal ...don't want dust, dirt or critters in the spirits.

[Windswept]

Something I've started doing for storage is using 5 gallon carboys with an airlock rubber stopper in the top. I just put a coffee filter over it and push the stopper in. It's also a good use for all those extra stoppers I have lying around!

[cayars]

Why?
If you put water in the airlock (used as normal) you aren't allowing the spirit to breath and might of well just put a secured lid on the carboy.
If not using fluid in the airlock and relying on the coffee filter to keep bugs out then I guess that works but the rubber has got to go.

Why not just source a natural cork to fit or cut to size for the carboy and use that?

[Windswept]

Why?
If you put water in the airlock (used as normal) you aren't allowing the spirit to breath and might of well just put a secured lid on the carboy.
If not using fluid in the airlock and relying on the coffee filter to keep bugs out then I guess that works but the rubber has got to go.

Why not just source a natural cork to fit or cut to size for the carboy and use that?

the airlock is gone, just a coffee filter with the stopper and the carboys are not full, I only fill them to the top of the cylindrical part, so there's no alcohol in contact with the stopper, it's just there to hold the coffee filter and reduce splashing while moving them.

And I'm using the rubber ones because I have a ton of them around

[The Baker]

Rubber is okay for wash but can give a horrible taste to spirits.

Geoff

[cayars]

The alcohol vapor WILL be in touch with the rubber and as Geoff mentioned will taint your spirits.
The higher the ABV the worse it is. The longer it sets like this the worst it will get.

Get some natural cork and you'll be set. If you need something short term get out your PTFE tape and cover the opening then punch a few pinholes in the tape.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

Windswept,

I've taken a PTFE disc I use on the lids on mason jars, and cover the carboy and then shoved the bunge down in the whole. It seals it up nicely. But that is just for the short term storage of low wines. It does nothing for the aging or breathing.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

Last night I checked on my jar with the pinhole and charred oak stick. It appears it has dropped about 1 1/2 % in just two months (started at 64%). Still hot, but that is likely the 60%+. The bite is across the whole tongue but I do get a small tingle on the lips. The tingle was more prevalent when I started. The smell is damn good. I actually spilled a little on my hands when I was pouring in the testing tube. While I rinsed my hands, I did not wash them real hard as I wanted to smell them throughout the day, which I did and was nice.

Any thoughts on 1 1/2% drop in 2 months? I have no point of reference and wanted to ask.

[Saltbush Bill]

Youshould have also set up another sample without the hole in lid at the same time. That would have given you something to compare against.

[rolling]

I have oaked rum in 1/2 gallon glass Ball jars with a PTFE liner under the metal ring. I put 4 pin holes in each lid. Going to monitor and possibly go down to 1 or 2 holes if I see a need. I don't plan on touching it for as long as possible. I got the PTFE precut in 4" squares online, works good with a jar. A control jar would have been a good idea, but I'm a couple of months in now.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

Youshould have also set up another sample without the hole in lid at the same time. That would have given you something to compare against.

+1

I order some sweet feed that should show up in the next few days. So I will do two side by side with that. Doing sweet feed sugar heads until I get a little better at running my still and cuts/blending. Lots of work for AG when I don't have the back end quit worked out yet. But I am glad I've done the ones I did. Just saying I did them feels good.

[Saltbush Bill]

Im still trying to get around to posting up some photos of the ones I experimented with ...just been busy.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

Update on the ABV from jar with Oak stick and pinhole in PTFE lid. No drop since April. However, I have not shaken and opened as much as I did the first 2 months. I see a little condensation so I know the pinhole is open to the atmosphere, but I am not sure it is "breathing" in and out of the oak stick like I had hoped. I do store in a cool basement, so I might need to move it out to garage where the temps swings a little more.

I'm open to feedback and thoughts?

[Beerswimmer]

I'd put it in the garage. Let it get HOT and then cool down at night. Repeat all year. I have a year and a half old jar of rum experiment like that that I'll post later.

[Beerswimmer]

I made a really good rum in 2018, put it into a barrel for a year. It didn't last long when I dumped it The last jar of heads and the first jar of tails that didn't make the cut were put into a quart jar with a charred oak stick previously used for a bourbon. Just an aging experiment to see what time would do to heads & tails. After a year, it had oaked and colored up, but was still headsy and tailsy, too much to drink. I poked a little hole in the lid, removed the stick, and put it back into the hot garage. After 6 months most of the heads are gone, and the tails aren't as gross. Still there, but more tolerable. Still not sipping quality, but it's just an experiment. The hole made all the difference.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

So I pulled about about 100ml off to share with a friend to help me taste test the progress (I don't like whiskey). It was still at about 62% and smelled amazing. For drinking I wanted to proof it down to 50% and used 5 stage filtered water to do so. Man did it completely ruin how good it smelled. For a lack of a better description it simply smelled "thin". I was actually hoping the little bit of water I added would open up the aroma even a little more, but it almost "washed" it away. Very strange. I am hopeful after a day or two the water and whiskey will marry together a little bit and the great aroma will come back.

As far as taste, I can say it is tasting smoother although I am not seeing a drop in ABV from the pinhole the past two months.