Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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JoeFL77
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Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by JoeFL77 »

Hello,

I just purchased a new 53 gallon #4 charr oak barrel on my way through Kentucky. Now how do I manage it?

It will be a couple of months probably before I can get something to put in it. I live in a semi-tropical climate where it is hot and humid most of the year.

To keep it from drying my ideas:

Get a spray bottle and spray it with distilled water every couple of days.

My water system is a well so I have a choice of hot or cold soft water, or hard cold water. A times it has a bit of Sulphur in it. I have a 20 and 15 gallon stock pot so I can heat up a lot of hot water but not enough to completely fill it. I am not opposed to buy 20+ gallon of distilled water.

I was going to buy 2 or 3 handles of EW or JB (about 1 gallon) and put it in there so it would not dry out and keep it OK until I can fill it more.

I have only had UJSSM but will get all grain when I start filling it. I planned on filling it with a few gallons at a time.

I plan on making a holder to keep it horizontal allow it to be rotated easily.

Ideas?
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Corsaire
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Corsaire »

I'd ramp up production before the barrel gets delivered!

Seriously though, I've never attempted something like this so here's just my thinking:

I think I would rather fill it with ujssm than with water. I've read just water can give mould issues. And putting sulphured water into a barrel seems like it would be difficult to clean the smell out.

Fill with water to get it to seal, drain, fill with alcohol.
You could use commercial spirits but I don't know whether 1 gallon will be enough to get it to seal.
As I understand it new barrels are quite thirsty.

My reasoning is that ujssm can be made quickly. It should go well with bourbon flavor wise. Also if I was to fill a barrel, I'd want to fill it with spirits *I* made, nothing commercial.

You'll definately have your work cut out for you trying to fill that barrel!
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by JoeFL77 »

Thanks Corsair.

I think The Cooperage that I bought it from tests them and seals leaks. So I might just get some Evan Williams or Jim Beam to get moisture inside the barrel. I hope that by rotating it I can swish it around and keep the inside good. For the outside I'm hoping to just spray it with distilled water. Occasionally putting it out in the sun to prevent any mold from the moisture on the surface. What I should do is just the next time it rains put it outside.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by still_stirrin »

Heer’s a barrel care sheet:
barrel_care_sheet.pdf
Barrel Care
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Deplorable »

Thanks for the document SS. Saved to my files.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by JoeFL77 »

Thanks for the information.

I just watched a video from the company I got it from. They test the barrels before they ship them and are usually filled with in 5 days.

I got 3.5 liters of bourbon and will put it in tonight. Yesterday I took a spray bottle of ditilled water and sprayed the outside. When it rains, I will put it outside.

I think this industry standard barrel is a little different in care from the smaller barrels.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

Dont fill with water, the sugars in the wood will encourage mold growth. Cheap boxed wine fortified with neutral to over 20% ABV will keep mold away, and may enhance flavor while you wait to fill. The problem is that low proof preferentially extracts the vanillin and caramel notes from the wood. Best bet is to get cranking on production, or disassemble and just use the staves.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Do not put just a gallon in a 53 gallon barrel. It will disappear. You really should not fill a barrel until you have stored enough to completely fill it. Otherwise you're just wasting liquor. It's why most of us start with 5 gallon barrels. Once you have filled one of those, you'll come close to understanding what it takes to fill a 53 gallon.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

Lets do some math. If your goal is all grain whiskey, most of us target a mash to 8% ABV. Higher generates some off flavors. And lets say your hearts cut is 60% of the final product. If you ferment 1000 gallons of mash, you wont fill your barrel (youll have 48 gallons). If you take wider cuts and keep 70%, youll just fill the barrel (56 gallons). And if you have a keg boiler, you'll run 10 gallons to avoid puking. So youll do 100 stripping runs, 33 spirit runs to fill that barrel. Not realistic. Break it down and use the staves
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Chauncey »

I agree with cutting it up. With all grain thatll be hard. With ujjssm itd take me 600 to 800 gal wash to fill it.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Deplorable »

You'd be better off taking it back and getting a 5 gallon barrel. Spend the extra money on grain to fill it.
You can fill a 5 gallon barrel in a reasonable amount of time and work, by saving all your hearts in a glass carboy with a natural cork stopper until you have enough to fill the barrel. A few ferments in a 32 gallon BRUTE will get it done over the course of a couple months depending on how hard you work at it and how much time you have on your hands to ferment, strip, and run all that mash.
As a bonus, you'll get to enjoy the fruits of your labor in about 18 months rather than 3 or 4 years
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by JoeFL77 »

Folks,
Thanks for all the great information and advice.

My goal is to do something unique. I have done the wood in glass aging and it works great. I had the opportunity to get a real spirit barrel during a visit to Kentucky at a reasonable price. Probably less than the cost of a good 5-gallon barrel.

My first goal is to “pickle” the barrel so it won’t go bad as I take time to get ready to use it. The second goal is to use it in a way that works for me.

“Pickling” Good point about the 20% ABV for mold growth. Also, with the higher proof I put in, the less I will “use” the barrel as I keep it pickled. I am going to put in the 3 liters of bourbon and see how much is absorbed. Rolling it around often to wet the entire inside. I have read that the inside gets very humid so it may not be as necessary as thought.

Using the barrel. Here is an article on Angel’s share. I googled “angel share loss”. As an extreme as 18-year-old barrel loses as much as 80%. So, my “theory” is that I will start with it less full, but it will get less full anyway. I will drink some and add back more. I enjoy white whiskey anyway.
https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/wh ... els-share/

The only problem is the composition of the “air” in the barrel. I am thinking of possibly using food grade nitrogen. Just something without oxygen and available.
Got to go and clean up the workshop.
Thanks
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

Doubt the gas atmosphere is going to make much difference, but if you direct a blow off tube from an active ferment into the bung hole you can displace the air with free CO2.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by JoeFL77 »

Tummydoc,

A great idea. Not sure if it would add carbonization. I don't know how much pressure is built up as the barrel heats up.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

Its not going to carbonate your liquor.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by 8Ball »

I had an opportunity to get once used bourbon barrels for $100 each. But there was no way I could come up with 53 gallons of all grain or rum hearts soon enough to justify getting one. Then finding a place to stash it. Then actually drinking it all. I’m interested to see how this works out for you. Good luck!

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

I've got two 53 gallon used red wine barrels ($75 each). Can't decide whether to make furniture or toasted dominos. Opened one to find they had anchored 20 toasted slats inside 2"x0.5"x24". So i charred those after cutting to 8 inch lengths. Reassembled the barrell while i decide its fate.

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Corsaire »

I've visited sherry makers in Jerez. Their barrels remain sealed with sometimes very little wine left in them. So once it's sealed it seems they stay sealed.
But their barrels are old, and the staves probably well saturated.
I don't think adding nitrogen will be beneficial, since barrels breathe o2 will come in anyway.
I'm interested how much of that bourbon you poured in will be absorbed by the barrel.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by The Baker »

Musing on this...
Just suppose...
MAYBE you could cut the barrel in half so you have two, half as tall.
And put a top on each half.
It is JUST possible you could acquire a much bigger ( maybe old or beat-up) barrel, big enough so the ends would fit the new bigger tops...
But the tops would not have to be of proper barrel wood so long as they were compatible with spirits.
Even heavy glass, or stainless, would probably be okay.

Sacrilege I know but think outside the box!
It would be interesting to see what a cooper would charge...

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

You'd have to route in the croze and chime on each cut stave, then find a matching top. Better to just swap for an appropriate sized barrel

Last edited by Tummydoc on Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by The Baker »

Tummydoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:01 am You'd have to route in the croze and chime on each cut stave, then find a mathing top. Better to just swop for an appropriate sized barrel
Definitely, if it is available to swap.

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Windswept »

You could always take out one of the ends and use it as a fermenter, more like a washback like the scotch guys use. Hell, you could even just use it as is for more of a closed ferment, stick a blow-off tube in the bung and let 'er buck.

might add some cool flavours in off the hop!
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by still_stirrin »

JoeFL77 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:54 am...I am going to put in the 3 liters of bourbon and see how much is absorbed...Rolling it around often to wet the entire inside...
I think you’d be better off to “wet YOUR inside” with the bourbon. You do know that a 53 gallon barrel holds 200 liters don’t you? Three liters is but “a drop in the bucket”.

Best answer so far....get your saw out and cut the staves into chunks for gallon pickle jars. A 53 gallon barrel is just too big to manage for our purpose unless you’ve got a distiller’s permit and a commercial distillery.

And don’t forget, “time is money”, as it will require years for the spirit to age properly in a full cask.

Oh, I’d suppose you could use it to cask age some homemade beers. But even that is a big effort to fill.

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I've seen pictures of barrels used as thumpers but this would be outside the 30 gallon capacity. Barrel ferment is a thing too. I see windswept mentioned this too. Probably has pretty good insulation capability over an HDPE barrel for corn style mashes.

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Too bad this hobby is in the shadows. One solution would be to make it a community barrel. Get 5-10 hobbyist to bring 5-10 gallons of their white dog and fill it. Let it age 2+ years and then see what the community made. Back in the day our church did this in the fall back making a community stew. Everyone would bring meat(beef, pork, deer, rabbit, squirrel, etc) and veggies and through it in a HUGE cauldron. It was all stuff from there own farms, gardens or efforts from hunting. Then everything would be scooped out, and dumplings would be made in the stew stock. I am not sure why, but it seemed those were the best dumplings and stew ever made.

It would be so interesting to see what would come of such blended community whiskey.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Windswept »

don't forget air circulation as well, I had all my booze stored in a cold room in the basement that's normally quite cool. Turns out with the heat we've been having and all the liquid, it got up to about 80% humidity and my 1/2 gallon barrel got a little furry.

I managed to catch it before I lost anything else.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Chauncey »

I hope you had rum in that funky furry guy lol. Adds to the character.
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Tummydoc »

I think id make a nice Adirondack chair out of the staves. The wife won't say its a complete waste, and you got a place to sit and contemplate what you want to put in the 5 gallon replacements!
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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by The Baker »

The Baker wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:02 am
Tummydoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:01 am You'd have to route in the croze and chime on each cut stave, then find a matching top. Better to just swop for an appropriate sized barrel
Definitely, if it is available to swap.

Geoff
Still musing.
You could set it up with the cut end on the bottom and rout a channel in the base for the cut end rather than messing with each stave.
?

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Re: Care of My New 53 Gallon Barrel

Post by Windy City »

This has come up a few times on the forum of people getting a good deal on a used 53 gal barrel.
It all sounds great that you can get a used 53 gal barrel for $100.00 when a new 10 gal Barrel Mill barrel costs $170.00. Let’s think about the logistics of filling that barrel. In previous posts the numbers have been run in regards to how many stripping/spirit runs (approximately 600 gals stripped). Trying to use a 53 gal barrel only barely filled as a solera barrel will be a disappointment.
Barrels want to be completely filled to hold their structural sealing. When they are not completely filled the staves that are not in contact with liquid will dry more and cause a larger Angel share or leakage. Trying to coat and constantly rotate a 53 gallon barrel to prevent this would be extremely time consuming and a fools errand. Being that the staves would probably start drying out and causing leaks.
This is a great hobby that can produce some great personal enjoyment products, but sometimes we need to keep ourselves in check. I am the last person to say bigger isn’t better but in this situation I would recommend rethinking this.
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