aging with electricity!

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junkyard dawg
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aging with electricity!

Post by junkyard dawg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:20 am

This came from a winemaker forum I subscribe too. Didn't have a link.

I'm calling BS, what do yall think?


Electricity can turn plonk into vintage wine in minutes, claim scientists
Cheap plonk can be turned into vintage wine in a matter of minutes by zapping it with electricity, claim scientists.


By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 6:12PM GMT 17 Dec 2008
A wine shopper - Electricity can turn plonk into vintage wine in minutes, claim scientists
Chinese researchers claim to be able to mature young wines within minutes Photo: JEFF GILBERT

Researchers - and some vineyards - are developing electrical equipment that accelerates the ageing process, turning young wine from an undrinkable bitter grape juice into a quaffable beverage fit for any table.

The system being developed in China - which has a burgeoning wine industry - works by speeding up the normal chemical reactions in wines that can take up to 20 years.

According to the researchers, the results have been "striking" and have fooled some wine experts in taste testings.

Even the cheapest of wines are usually only drunk after six months. Most, especially reds, take longer to achieve the required balance and complexity. The finest can take 20 years or more to reach their peak.

During ageing, wine becomes less acidic as the alcohol reacts with organic acids to produce a plethora of the fragrant compounds known as esters.

Unpleasant components precipitate out and the wine becomes clearer and more stable. Red wines mellow and become less bitter.

A team led by Xin An Zeng, a chemist at the South China University of Technology in Guangzhou, came up with the idea of pumping the rough wine through a pipe that ran between two titanium electrodes, connected to the mains.

For the test wine, the team selected a three-month- old cabernet sauvignon from the Suntime Winery, China's largest producer.

Batches of wine spent one, three or eight minutes in the electric fields.

The team then analysed the treated wine for chemical changes that might alter its "mouth feel" and quality, and passed it to a panel of 12 experienced wine tasters who assessed it in a blind tasting

With the gentlest treatment, the harsh, astringent wine grew softer. Longer exposure saw some of the hallmarks of ageing emerge – a more mature "nose", better balance and greater complexity.

The improvements reached their peak after 3 minutes at 600 volts per centimetre: this left the wine well balanced and harmonious, with a nose of an aged wine and, importantly, still recognisably a cabernet sauvignon.

Although Zeng cannot yet explain how exposure to an electric field alters the wine's chemistry, his results show that under the right conditions the technique can accelerate some aspects of the ageing process.

"Not only can it shorten a wine's normal storage time, it can also improve some lower-quality wine,"

he said.

Five Chinese wineries have begun trials.
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Husker
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Husker » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:32 am

lol, Yup, fits right in there with all of the other "quality" crap coming out of china.
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Hawke » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:33 am

There was another thread on this a couple months ago that got locked down.
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junkyard dawg
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by junkyard dawg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:00 am

I think that one that got locked was about selling some ultrasound machine...

This is the first I have heard of using electricity. I'm still betting that aging only occurs with time. :idea:
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eternalfrost
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by eternalfrost » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:43 am

junkyard dawg wrote: I'm still betting that aging only occurs with time. :idea:
or perhaps a time machine? a chrono-cooler if you will 8)

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by SuperDavid » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:14 pm

is it not even slightly possible?
has anyone on this forum ever tried it?

junkyard dawg
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by junkyard dawg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:22 pm

I think its BS. I've never tried it. Its just my random irrelevant opinion. Aging by definition comes with time. Shocking your hootch is something other than 'Aging'. It might cause quantifiable changes, but its not aging. It might be a mimic, but its still not the tried and true time...

I like tradition over demon electricity...
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Hack » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:36 pm

It's an interesting idea. I'd like to be a taste tester for that. The proof would be in the tasting. Aging is done because it produces a desireable results with the flavor. Maybe electricity can produce desireable results as well.

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by duds2u » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:06 pm

It might work. It sure worked on me when I got belted by 415 VAC. I came out of that so much more mature and particularly knowledgable like "I ain't going to have oil on my hands when I tighten live terminal's" :shock: :shock:
Less oak longer

junkyard dawg
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by junkyard dawg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:38 pm

It sure worked on me when I got belted by 415 VAC.
ouch!

I got a wet foot 220 zap once and that was enough to make me call it demon electricity...
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myles
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by myles » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:04 am

This story is all over the papers and in NewScientist. I am witholding my opinion but it just doesnt seem fair play to me.

Still I would love to watch (from a distance) someone passing 600v through 80 proof shine!!!!

On the issue of being bitten by electricity I once got a 15Kv belt due to some bad insulation on the HT lead at the back of a TV tube. Just a glancing touch but man did it hurt. Took me a good 5 mins before my legs would work properly. :D

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:01 am

Sounds just barely plausible.
I imagine it's not so much the electricity, but the titanium. Probably acts as a catalyst, much like heated copper does.
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rad14701
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by rad14701 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:16 pm

So, just how many watt hours does it take to synthesize a 30 year scotch...??? :twisted:

Dr_T
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:23 pm

See, that's where the homebrew community comes in- answering questions like that.
I may not have 30 years left in me. Really, I could die tomorrow.
And if I could enjoy a glass of (what tastes like) 30-year old liquor, I might die happier.

Or it could be a big scam. But hey- I'd rather find out that my Chinese booze was electrified than find that it had melamine or some crap. Not that I'd buy Chinese booze, but you see my point.
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dnderhead » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:59 pm

whould not this be electrosynthesis? I know if you do that to water it brakes it down into--1 hydrogen/2 oxygen,, whould it not do the same
to alcohol? and have something like 2 hydrogen an 1 oxygen ?

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by decoy » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:10 pm

intresting concept...

history shows that if electricity is passed thru a human body that it will turn anybody into a quiet peace loving person, this method has been used and proven in many jails accross america..

i cant see why it wouldnt work on wine...

but will it work on Swill... :roll:

rad14701
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by rad14701 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:39 pm

:idea: :shock: Electroshock Therapy :shock: :idea: <<<TWITCH>>> I don't <<<TWITCH>>> think it <<<TWITCH>>> works... :!:

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:18 pm

Dnderhead wrote:whould not this be electrosynthesis? I know if you do that to water it brakes it down into--1 hydrogen/2 oxygen,, whould it not do the same
to alcohol? and have something like 2 hydrogen an 1 oxygen ?
Right!
But imagine if it leaves ethanol alone, and breaks down nasties into harmless gases that dissipate.
I'm not saying it does- but what if?
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dnderhead » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:25 pm

Tried afue OZs of 80% decent stuff that has aged on oak for 2 years. introduced 24v 500ma ,, it gassed off,, left for 1/2 hour ,,bad stuff
tasted like fore shots with a bitter after taste.

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:59 pm

I'm sorry, but.. what did you say?
Better with electricity?
Worse with?
No change?

(And, what kind of contacts? Copper wire? DC or AC? )
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dnderhead » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:12 pm

it was decent stuff to start with . after 1/2 hour on electric. I could not drink it at all ,,very bad, "I do not recommend this at all""
a big ""B.S.""
copper contacts,, dc

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by astrangebrew » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:15 am

I suspect what they are describing is not "direct connect" i.e.jacking the "suicide cord" into the mains and dropping the ends into the wine
Batches of wine spent one, three or eight minutes in the electric fields.
especially this bit
The improvements reached their peak after 3 minutes at 600 volts per centimetre

Sounds more like connecting a hi pot machine up to a couple of conductors and placing the bottle in between the plates.
Also - no indication if it is AC or DC - easy to try with the right equipment but I think it is BS.
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dnderhead » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 am

I was just something I had hear handy and IM not about to try with 240 ac

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:23 am

if your going to try this PLEASE dont be dicking around with mains current for christ sake.

some sort of well grounded and fused power supply box and a floating transformer at the very least

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dnderhead » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:18 pm

Not me,, I thank this is a bunch of bunk ,, thinking about the taste I believe it oxidized the alcohol. taste "sharp" something like vinegar but not quite.
Do not know why you whould want to do that to wine, when you try to keep oxygen out.

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:23 pm

Dnderhead wrote: Do not know why you whould want to do that to wine, when you try to keep oxygen out.
because writing articles claiming you can gets your site onto the news aggregates and slashdots the hell out of your page making you $$$


case and point: the very existence of this thread

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

I think that the fact that there was an effect at all shows that there is potential for a usable technique.

Think of cooking as a comparison- a sheet of cookies baked at 375 for 11 minutes will be great- bake 'em for 20, they're trash. Same idea here; finding the right time/voltage mix is all that would be needed.
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:09 pm

Dr_T wrote:I think that the fact that there was an effect at all shows that there is potential for a usable technique.

Think of cooking as a comparison- a sheet of cookies baked at 375 for 11 minutes will be great- bake 'em for 20, they're trash. Same idea here; finding the right time/voltage mix is all that would be needed.

i agree too that in all likelihood something is going on here. but making the claim that it is at all comparable to natural aging is a far far stretch, even if the proper 'settings' are found

to borrow your analogy, its like pouring acid over your cookie dough and saying "Look! something changed! now we wont have to use ovens anymore"
not that there is any reason to not look into it further...

but even if any favorable results were found i have a feeling it would be like someone claiming cheeze-wiz is the same thing as fine aged french wheels

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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by Dr_T » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:15 pm

Yeah, I'm not saying it's a miracle.
Frankly, I'm not the kind of person who could taste the difference between good stuff and better stuff anyway.

But cheez whiz is pretty tasty. Put it on some Triscuits, and chow down!

Edit- I guess a better example of what I'm trying to say is microwave ovens- when they came out, no real cook would touch one. They said microwaves were crap, and so was the food they cooked, and they were right. But now all restaurants have them, and great chefs use them as they use any other tool. Just another way to work your magic.
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Re: aging with electricity!

Post by absinthe » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:41 pm

well i have a few neon sign transformers maybe i'll give it a go :P 600 volt per cm? i can manage that easy.. not sure about the titanium electrodes though..
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