Big Damn Sugar Wash

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby GudDaddy » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:03 pm

Got tired of messing with the 20l washes...my recipe...
55 gallon blue plastic drum - food grade

Start adding hot water - finally found a good way to create 'hot water', bought a instant hot water/portable shower thing that hooks up to a propane tank. Cold water in from the carbon filter and 110 degree water out...very nice -

Stir in 100 pounds Dextrose
Add 1 cup yeast nutrient
Add 1 gallon high pulp orange juice
Top off water at 35 gallons - drum has markings on the side...
Finale temp is around 85 degrees
Add 1 pound baker’s yeast
Cover and let sit. Will start capping in a couple of hours. After 5 days or so the fermentation is slowing way down.
Add 25 Pounds dextrose
Add 1/2 cup yeast nutrient
Top off with hot water to 45 gallons
Add 1/2 cup Distillers’ yeast - baker’s yeast did most of the work, Distillers’ yeast will finish the sugar and bring it up to around 20%
Put on the brew belts - Distillers’ yeast likes it hot
Let sit for another 5 days or so...fermantation done, let clear
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:12 pm

GudDaddy, wouldn't you consider 20% ABV to be a bit high for a sugar wash, regardless of the yeast used...??? That recipe sounds like a lot of work to potentially get off tastes and flavors - or a stalled wash... And it sure sounds like a lot of yeast as well... Is there a method to your madness or is this just something you have tried a time or two and actually works and produces clean neutral spirits...??? Yeah, I'm a big skeptical... :think:
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby GudDaddy » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:15 pm

I do a stripping run and distill 4 times after...clean my copper packing between distills - no carbon polishing and the product is very smooth...
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby GudDaddy » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:18 pm

Also...I think a big part of getting drinkable spirts is in how you take you cuts...with that qauntity I am more inclined to take much less on the front and back end of the cook..
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:21 pm

I guess I'm more curious as to how you get bakers yeast to ferment to 20% ABV without suffering from osmotic stress and further contributing to off tastes and smells... I don't see any benefit in doing a stepped addition of sugar, water, yeast, and nutrients... The osmotic stress is there right at the get-go...
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby GudDaddy » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:27 pm

read the post...

The Bakers yeast will not ferment to 20% as you well know...and the sugar is the right amount, with a little extra, for the 35 gallons of water. Note - I am using Dextrose not sugar so 80 pounds sugar = 100 pounds dextrose. After the first stage of ferment is done I add Distillers yeast to finish off the sugar...
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:35 pm

Whether the first ferment is done, or simply stalling due to osmotic stress, can only be determined by testing with a hydrometer... And, yes, I am aware that dextrose has less fermentable sugar per pound than standard table sugar... Not sure novices reading this would know that, however...

Hey, if you're happy with the recipe and it works for you, great... I'd just hate to see novices reading this post, thinking they can miraculously get quantity and quality, only to end up having problems... Might as well tell them to just stick with turbo yeast... I'm just sayin... :roll:
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby WalkingWolf » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:35 pm

As Rad said GudDaddy -- if it works for you then so be it. I also agree with the assessment that this would not be the recommended path forward for the novice distiller looking to scale up.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and look forward to conferring with you in the future.
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby boda getta » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:28 pm

Speaking as a novice and having reading 100's of posts trying to understand how to proceed I would agree with Rad and Wolf. I suspect the novice should not "scale up" until he knows more. I also suspect even the more experienced would be better served by taking one of the tried and true recipes here and simply doubling or tripling it if they need to scale up.

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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:35 pm

What kind of distillers yeast are you using that will ferment out to 20%? And why don't you just add it all at the beginning with just the magic distillers yeast? And not use the bakers yeast.

Do you have any hydrometer readings to go with what you posted? Like starting SG and maybe one before you add the second batch of sugar and after then finish SG. Just kinda curious on what's happening in your concoction.
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby oldnbroke » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:35 am

GudDaddy wrote:I am using Dextrose not sugar so 80 pounds sugar = 100 pounds dextrose.

I remember reading that dextrose is a glucose monohydrate (has a water molecule loosely attached to each glucose molecule) and that since dextrose is about 10% by weight water to add 10% to the sugar weight (91 lbs sugar = 100 lbs sugar). So being a terminal anal retentive I had to know which was correct. I can't find were I originally read this (I think it was a beer brewing forum) but I did find the following on the parent site:

Image

It clearly has a typo. What reads "(eg use 1.25 kg of glucose for every 1 kg sugar needed)" should read "use 1.125 kg of glucose for every 1 kg sugar". I expect this typo most likely led to the 80 lbs sugar = 100 lbs dextrose conversion used here (80 x 1.25 = 100). The correct conversion would be 88.9 lbs sugar = 100 lbs dextrose.

GudDaddy wrote: Distillers’ yeast will finish the sugar and bring it up to around 20%

rad14701 wrote:GudDaddy, wouldn't you consider 20% ABV to be a bit high for a sugar wash,

rad14701 wrote:I guess I'm more curious as to how you get bakers yeast to ferment to 20% ABV


rad14701 wrote:I guess I'm more curious as to how you get bakers yeast to ferment to 20% ABV


Prairiepiss wrote:What kind of distillers yeast are you using that will ferment out to 20%?


This isn't a 20% wash. 125 lbs dextrose converts to 111 lbs sugar mixed with water to 45 gallons or equivalently 2 lb 7.5 oz sugar in water to 1 gal. Entering my handy dandy hydrometer chart and interpolating yields SG of 1.113 and potential alcohol of 15.4%.

rad14701 wrote: And, yes, I am aware that dextrose has less fermentable sugar per pound than standard table sugar


Wouldn't want any of us novices to infer from this that dextrose has unfermentable sugar in it. All the sugar is glucose and highly fermentable, it just has a little water in it.

You can't just dumb down the site for novices only. There is a certain price to be paid for going through life as a complete dumbass. If a rank novice waltzes in here, ignores all the posted advice to start with a Tried and True recipe, and tries a Big Damn Sugar Wash with 125 lbs of dextrose right off the bat, then off tastes or a stalled ferment would be the least of my worries. If he doesn't figure out how to drown himself in his 55 gal drum he'll surely blow himself up trying to distill it. I suppose either way will improve the gene pool.
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Re: Big Damn Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:18 am

oldnbroke, thanks for anal retentively dumbing it down for us... :lolno:

There is a good write-up on different types of sugars here on the site that would prove helpful to anyone caring to take the time to read... Even the amounts of convertible starches in various organics... Independent research is encouraged...

But back on topic, even a wash with a 15.4% ABV potential is quite high when striving for clean neutral spirits... It doesn't make much sense to bump up the amount of alcohol when the foreshots, heads, and tails, will comprise more of the resulting spirits than the additional percentage within the hearts cut... Most here are more inclined to back down the potential ABV and take a larger hearts cut... There's factual information to back that up here on the site as well for anyone wanting to look for it so it's not worth reiterating in detail here...

It is also a proven fact that an additional 1% ABV in potential alcohol can take up to 3 days longer to attain once you start hitting the high gravity mark... Those numbers come directly from academics who have done extensive research into yeast as it performs as part of the fermentation process...

But I digress... :yawn:
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