Deployment of Sugars

[MichiganCornhusker]

Can a wash be managed any better by adding sugars during fermentation, rather that all at the beginning?

I have done the Buccaneer Bob rum, starting the fermentation with the molasses, and then adding sugars as the fermentation progressed.
My understanding is that this is healthier for the yeast by keeping the overall unfermented (not unfermentable) sugar concentration more even throughout the process rather than all at the beginning.

I am very happy with the rums I made with that recipe, but I want to try one now with 100% blackstrap, no other sugars. I've started the fermentation out at OG 1.07, and I'd like to add some molasses to it as it ferments to get the abv up a little higher.
Normally, I start all my mashes/washes out around OG 1.065, but I really like my rum as a one-run spirit, so I'd like to have enough abv in the beer to give me a good yield of 80 proof in a single run. I was able to get that with the Buccaneer process.

I'm going to try to work out the math to replicate the amounts of sugars, estimated because I'm using the blackstrap instead of regular sugar, to come close to the abv of the rums I've already done.
I've read that molasses, especially blackstrap, generally has more unfermentable sugars, so it makes sense to push the OG a little higher. My plan is to add a couple more payloads of blackstrap as the fermentation continues, maybe to get me up to where the initial starting gravity would have been around 1.08 or even 1.10, if I had added all the molasses at the beginning.

Just wondering if you rum guys would have any comments on what I'm doing here. How far do you think I should go with the molasses? Do you think this idea of incremental additions is worth the effort?
I've not seen this concept used anywhere else, but would there be any benefit to starting any other mashes/washes, say a UJ or a grappa, at lower OG's and adding sugar during fermentation?

[MichiganCornhusker]

My plan is to add a couple more payloads of blackstrap as the fermentation continues, maybe to get me up to where the initial starting gravity would have been around 1.08 or even 1.10, if I had added all the molasses at the beginning.

I started the wash with 10 quarts molasses and 40 gallons water to make up a 50 quart wash @ OG 1.07.
When the fermentation started to slow down, I added another 3 quarts molasses mixed with 3 quarts water.
When that slowed down I got SG 1.018, figuring that was ok because of unfermentables from the blackstrap.
At that point I added another 3 quarts molasses and 3 quarts water.
Then finally, a few days later, the rest of the bucket, about 4 quarts molasses with 4 quarts water.

Here's where I'm not sure about my math, but will post it anyway.
I had my original wash at SG 1.07 for 10 qt molasses in 50 qt wash, that is SG 1.07 for a wash ratio of 1:5, or 0.2, molasses to water.
After my additions of more molasses and water, I have a total of 20 qt molasses in 70 qt of wash, so a ratio of 1:3.5, or 0.286 molasses to water.
I take the 0.286 / 0.2 ratios x original SG 1.07 to get final estimated total "OG" as 1.100, if I had added all the molasses and water up front.
If so, and it finishes around FG 1.02, the wash will finish around 10% abv.

Again, I'm not doing this to chase higher wash abv for its own sake, but trying to start with a higher gravity wash to be able to do a single pot still distillation and end up with a decent yield of 80 proof rum without having to go too far into low abv tails.
I'm just trying to replicate the Buccaneer Bob method, adding sugars in waves, even though he himself suggests that the high gravity wash is a bit heretical.

I've done double distillations on my rum, and I much prefer the single, it has much more flavor and funk.
I've got a lot of wash here, so I'm also considering running part of it with my thumper to see how that affects abv and flavor.

[wtfdskin]

Interesting thoughts. Ive done Bobs and its a great recipe. Never gave the molasses additions instead of sugar a thought, could be fun. I cant be much help there though as I use a little bit from Bobs, hook, and pugi's recipe which im still playing around with. Im experimenting with mostly how its run not how its fermented.

Are you using dunder also?

I would definitely use your thumper if single running. Charge it with 1:1 rum tails and dunder. My keg setup kicks out a little over a gallon of hearts at 160 proof with a 12 gallon charge and single thumper.

I now am running double thumpers single run. The proof or quantity of product hasn't changed ftom the single, but flavor off the still is amazing. Cant wait to see how it ages. I take a tight hearts cut since the heads and tails go back in the thumpers on the next run rather than blending them in with the hearts after airing out like normal procedure for other drinks.

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[firewater69]

I do sorghum rum and for what it's worth I like a single run on my cm and I do use live dunder in the ferment. I usually run it at around 170 proof then age on on dried fruit and toasted white oak at 125. my ferments usually start around 1.090-1.10 and finish at a 1.020, maybe more unfermentables in my sorghum. but I have experimented with adding more sorghum mid ferment and have had good results but no recorded data to back it up, I do feel the yeast are less stressed by doing it though. good luck with your experiments MCH!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Thanks for the input, guys, especially about the dunder.
It's been quite a while since I did my last rums, so I don't have any live dunder pit available to me, but I will use the fresh dunder & tails from my first run to charge the thumper for my second.
I'll be interested to see how a single run pot compares to the thumper run. Also looking forward to finding out how this blackstrap compares to the fancy "supreme" molasses I used last year.
I did try some toasted/charred oak with a couple bottles of my last run, and it was too oaky for my taste. I like the idea of the dried fruit, and maybe try just toasting the oak this time.
I'm also going to search around for some spiced rum recipes to experiment with.

[corene1]

I have only done rum a couple of times so I am still learning but I am posting so I can keep an eye on this thread and learn from what you guys are doing. Sounds like a good experiment to me and using dunder in the starting ferment and also in the thumper are good thoughts for additional flavor. Thanks for posting.

[SassyFrass]

This thread and others have gotten me interested in doing rum.
Been checking on buckets of blackstrap and can't find a single feed store in my area that sells it...yet.
I may have to drive a county or two away. LOL

SF

[MichiganCornhusker]

This thread and others have gotten me interested in doing rum.

Rum seems to be one of those things that seems very simple at first, and then you stumble down the rabbit hole like everything else.
Combine molasses & water, ferment with baker's yeast, distill. Easy. Certainly easier than an AG bourbon mash.
But then you start to think about and explore all the other variables like still set up, how and when to use the dunder, dunder pits, rum oils, spiced vs. white, whether on not to use additional sugars, what kind of sugars, blackstrap vs. fancy, etc.

[wtfdskin]

I noticed the same with my charred and toasted oak sticks (tp method). I'm going to try toasted only sometime. I like the color i get but it leans toward a whiskey oakey taste.
I dont have a dunder pit either, I ferment with fresh dunder hot out of the still, helps thin molasses and dissolve sugar. I do keep a 5 gal bucket of dunder aside for thumper charge but it never has time to get too funky, just a little growth on top.
Spicing is the tricky part for me. I mix my rum with coke, hard to find the balance im looking for.

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[MichiganCornhusker]

Just an update after running the rum.

I ran half through my potstill with no thumper, kept 4 quarts of hearts out of a 10 gallon charge.

I ran the second half of the wash through a potstill & thumper. I added the feints from the first run into the boiler, and started the thumper with 3 gallons of fresh dunder from the first run. Kept about 5 quarts of hearts from about a 9 gallon charge.

After airing and blending, the first batch came in at about 120 proof before tempering, the second came in around 135 proof.
After proofing it all down, I wound up with almost 3 gallons of keep from the 5 gallons of blackstrap in a 20 gallon wash.

This blackstrap rum tastes, to me, very much like my previous rums made from supreme baking molasses and different sugar combinations.
I don't notice anything harsh, or rough about the blackstrap, it produced the same "rum" flavor that I got with my other runs. It could be that this stuff is a higher grade of blackstrap that some others, it did come from the same place as the supreme.

The one-and-done product from the potstill with no thumper is definitely heavier, richer, funkier, with gobs of flavor and character. I really like this, but I kinda feel like I'm not supposed to. That I should appreciate a more refined spirit. But I'm gonna hide this away just for me and it will be my own guilty pleasure. Sort of like the kid who eats paste in kindergarten.

The run through the thumper is very nice, much cleaner, but with the same flavors and character, just not as heavy. Compared to the potstill rum, it seems a little more bitter than sweet.

As for the Buccaneer Bob method of adding sugars over time during the fermentation, I'm very happy with the way this came out. The abv off the still, even just once through the potstill, was plenty high enough that I could make cuts without worrying about ending up with a blend that was too low or cloudy. Fermentation was steady throughout, and I don't taste anything in this rum that would indicate stressed yeast, or too high an abv wash.

When I get around to it, I'm going to sit down with my various rums, this blackstrap, and the others done with a variety of sugar combinations, and have a nice afternoon of side by side drinking to sort this all out.

[DetroitDIY]

Spicing is the tricky part for me. I mix my rum with coke, hard to find the balance im looking for.

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I've just completed my first couple of rum runs (first distillation efforts ever), no thumper. First was 2 gal Blackstrap, 8 gal H2O and Baker's Yeast. Ended up with 1350 ml @ 71 ABV. Second batch was 2.7 gal Blackstrap, 15.75 lbs Panela, 1 lb. Raw Sugar, 6.75 gal dunder (from the first batch) 14.5 gal H2O, a bit of energizer, epsom salt and Baker's Yeast (modification of Hook's Rum). This yielded 6800 ml @ 72 ABV. I'm oaking in 3 variations. No clue whether they're any good or not.

Reason I'm chiming in is I also love rum and Coke (and lime). I believe the essential flavors that make Coke taste like Coke are lime, cloves, vanilla... and one other I forget. It occurs to me if you want to find something to spice a rum with and enjoy mixing with Coke, you might consider a bit of cloves and vanilla beans.

[The Baker]

Quite possibly cinnamon
Geoff

[nerdybrewer]

Spicing is the tricky part for me. I mix my rum with coke, hard to find the balance im looking for.

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I've just completed my first couple of rum runs (first distillation efforts ever), no thumper. First was 2 gal Blackstrap, 8 gal H2O and Baker's Yeast. Ended up with 1350 ml @ 71 ABV. Second batch was 2.7 gal Blackstrap, 15.75 lbs Panela, 1 lb. Raw Sugar, 6.75 gal dunder (from the first batch) 14.5 gal H2O, a bit of energizer, epsom salt and Baker's Yeast (modification of Hook's Rum). This yielded 6800 ml @ 72 ABV. I'm oaking in 3 variations. No clue whether they're any good or not.

Reason I'm chiming in is I also love rum and Coke (and lime). I believe the essential flavors that make Coke taste like Coke are lime, cloves, vanilla... and one other I forget. It occurs to me if you want to find something to spice a rum with and enjoy mixing with Coke, you might consider a bit of cloves and vanilla beans.

I have used all of the above, and the cinnamon.
There's nothing better than a nice neat glass of wonderfully aged rum, however while waiting for the aging we must imbibe right?
This is the year of losing weight for me, so the Coke is Coke Zero.
Spices and vanilla and all are totally acceptable so yeah - whatever makes it good to your taste do it!
All the while I'm looking forward to that 15 gallon barrel coming of age. Yum!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Since doing this with my rum, I've done this step-feeding method two more times.

First with a raspberry mead recipe that Jimbo posted a while back.
Over the course of the fermentation I ended up adding about 1-1/2 gallons of honey to a 5 gallon batch.
I then added the raspberries at the end, when the fermentation had pretty much stalled out.
The result is delicious, much better than any mead that I made years ago. Still sweet, strong, and gobs of raspberry flavor.

Now I'm trying to create something similar with rice.
I did a simple rice mash with liquid enzymes, strained off the sweet wort, boiled, and divided it up.
I used about 2-1/2 gallons at about SG 1.065 to start fermentation.
Then I boiled about 4 gallons down to a little under 2 gallons, making a very sweet rice syrup.

As the rice fermentation goes along, I'm adding a quart of the syrup at a time.
That way I can always keep the SG between 1.02 and 1.06 for the entire fermentation.
I'm hoping to end up with a rice wine maybe in the neighborhood of 16% and still with a little residual sweetness.

This, as well as the mead, I plan on bottling as-is, no run through the still.