Pain fully slow wash

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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Mgnt
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Pain fully slow wash

Post by Mgnt »

I have a wash going started November 20 th at 1.6 sg.... its five gallons of the second generation corn flake whiskey.... I use 25% backset for first gen.... and poured it on the old yeast bed... it's been almost three weeks and the sg is at 1.1... it still bubbling and dropping the sg but at a very slow rate....I'm not sure of the temp but might be a little cold maybe 65-70 I'm not really sure... I used red star bread yeast in the first gen and no new yeast in the second

Any recommendations on what I should do I don't want it to go bad
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ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

If you used bread yeast, then yes, the main problem is the temp. You have to get that temp up to 80. If not, go get you some 1118 or other cold weather yeast and pitch it. It will hopefully finish it up for you at those temps.

Our wait, the bakers will finish eventually. At 1.01, you ain't gonna hurt it anymore.

Ps.

Did you throw any oyster shells in there? 25% is good, but that is border line. I would throw some shells in there and make sure it doesn't crash in the future.
Last edited by ShineonCrazyDiamond on Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by ShineRunner »

I'm assuming you mean 1.060 and 1.010?

Did you pour the backset directly onto the old yeast? Or did you let it cool with the additional new water? Hot backset will kill the yeast. Not likely, since it did move from 1.060 to 1.010. What's your pH? a low pH will stall a ferment as well.

Try to be patient. Slow ferments tend to create a lot of flavor. Unless your sanitation is completely terrible, most of the sugar is used up by the yeast and it's hard for bacteria to get growing. If the pH is also low, it's also difficult for bacteria to work in that environment.

I've never done the cornflakes recipe. Maybe it needs some nutrients? Read through the the topic and see if others have had the same issue. I'm sure someone has.. Yeast nutrient or even a crushed up multi vitamin works well.

Try warming it up and giving it a good stir to rouse the yeast. You could try adding a different yeast, but I would try warming it and maybe adding some egg shells or something to up the pH a bit (if it's too low).

SR
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Haha. I'm guessing me and shine runner were posting the same time
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by jb-texshine »

Cornflakes is a tasty recipe but has always been a slow fermenter for me.painfully so. The only thing i found to speed it along is a yeast bomb and added oyster shells.
Jbt
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Crushed oyster shells, I put that shit in everything!!!!!
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

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Deleted. Double posted because i was trying to strangle my p.o.s. phone....
Last edited by jb-texshine on Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

jb-texshine wrote:Cornflakes is a tasty recipe but has always been a slow fermenter for me.painfully so. The only thing i found to speed it along is a yeast bomb and added oyster shells.
Jbt
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Crushed oyster shells, I put that shit in everything!!!!!
Even been putting it in my all grain these days. :thumbup:
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by freefall »

epson salts and some crushed up muti vitamins can help perk it up. Be careful with stirring it. lol ask me how I know that.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by still_stirrin »

Just be careful with the epsom salts...it is a sulfate salt. A little is a good nutrient (magnesium)...too much will push sulfur into your distillate.

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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by freefall »

Yes, light on the salt. Add your oyster shells when adding the salt and vitamins. For five gallon just a pinch of salt.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by shadylane »

still_stirrin wrote:Just be careful with the epsom salts...it is a sulfate salt. A little is a good nutrient (magnesium)...too much will push sulfur into your distillate.

Carry on...
I noticed there was magnesium in the one a day vitamins I last bought.
Might not need to add more, but I'll have to experiment to say that for sure.
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Mgnt
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by Mgnt »

How many vitamins and shells would you add for each gallon of mash?
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by shadylane »

1/2 a vitamin or more and a big pinch of crushed oyster shells.
If you really want to speed up a sugar wash, add some boiled yeast
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by jb-texshine »

Oystershells: i use a 1/4 cup in a five gallon ferment and a cup in a 50 gallon ferment. Not very scientific but they dissolve on an as needed basis and theres always plenty left in the fermenters when they get dumped.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by Mgnt »

I throw ten whole calm shells in my primary... figure less junk I have to worry about siphoning out
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by Boda Getta »

"I throw ten whole calm shells in my primary."

Sounds good, I'm gonna try that but I will add a splash of olive oil, minced garlic, a little white wine and serve it on a nice pasta.

BG
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by jb-texshine »

boda getta wrote:"I throw ten whole calm shells in my primary."

Sounds good, I'm gonna try that but I will add a splash of olive oil, minced garlic, a little white wine and serve it on a nice pasta.

BG
Make it a double order and send me half...sounds tasty
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by UrToopid »

I live on the Texas Gulf Coast
and we don't have limestone bedrock to make out water table alkaline, to give it residual alkalinity, but what we do have is millions of years of accumulation of oyster shells. It's a natural resource here. I've only been doing homedistilling for one year now, but my thirst for knowledge has been insatiable. I wanted to give my mash recipe a local signature, so yo speak. So, after learning about the need for residual alkalinity (RA) in mash water, to counter the natural acid production of fermenting grain, and knowing that a low pH mash will stall, I began to look for sources of calcium carbonate or calcium bicarbonate locally, and cheaply. I had no other info to tell me to try oyster shells, except an intro chemistry class I took a while back at the local college. I have fed crushed oyster shells to my chickens for years, so I knew they were readily available at Tractor Supply Co. and I already had a few pounds leftover. After fighting acidity for months, all of a sudden, the light bulb had come on. My pH drop during fermentation stabilized noticeably. My friends still snicker when I mention using oyster shells. Until reading this thread tonight, I thought I was all alone on this subject.
jb-texshine
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by jb-texshine »

UrToopid wrote:I live on the Texas Gulf Coast
and we don't have limestone bedrock to make out water table alkaline, to give it residual alkalinity, but what we do have is millions of years of accumulation of oyster shells. It's a natural resource here. I've only been doing homedistilling for one year now, but my thirst for knowledge has been insatiable. I wanted to give my mash recipe a local signature, so yo speak. So, after learning about the need for residual alkalinity (RA) in mash water, to counter the natural acid production of fermenting grain, and knowing that a low pH mash will stall, I began to look for sources of calcium carbonate or calcium bicarbonate locally, and cheaply. I had no other info to tell me to try oyster shells, except an intro chemistry class I took a while back at the local college. I have fed crushed oyster shells to my chickens for years, so I knew they were readily available at Tractor Supply Co. and I already had a few pounds leftover. After fighting acidity for months, all of a sudden, the light bulb had come on. My pH drop during fermentation stabilized noticeably. My friends still snicker when I mention using oyster shells. Until reading this thread tonight, I thought I was all alone on this subject.
Lots of out of the way boat ramps down there are nothing but crushed oyster shells. The one at shamrock flats on mustang island was...before they dredged the flats. What's your closest island/bay?
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by UrToopid »

jb-texshine wrote:
UrToopid wrote:I live on the Texas Gulf Coast
and we don't have limestone bedrock to make out water table alkaline, to give it residual alkalinity, but what we do have is millions of years of accumulation of oyster shells. It's a natural resource here. I've only been doing homedistilling for one year now, but my thirst for knowledge has been insatiable. I wanted to give my mash recipe a local signature, so yo speak. So, after learning about the need for residual alkalinity (RA) in mash water, to counter the natural acid production of fermenting grain, and knowing that a low pH mash will stall, I began to look for sources of calcium carbonate or calcium bicarbonate locally, and cheaply. I had no other info to tell me to try oyster shells, except an intro chemistry class I took a while back at the local college. I have fed crushed oyster shells to my chickens for years, so I knew they were readily available at Tractor Supply Co. and I already had a few pounds leftover. After fighting acidity for months, all of a sudden, the light bulb had come on. My pH drop during fermentation stabilized noticeably. My friends still snicker when I mention using oyster shells. Until reading this thread tonight, I thought I was all alone on this subject.
Lots of out of the way boat ramps down there are nothing but crushed oyster shells. The one at shamrock flats on mustang island was...before they dredged the flats. What's your closest island/bay?[/


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Re: Pain fully slow wash

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Closest bay would be Christmas Bay or Cow Trap


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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by shadylane »

My favorite is Mannapro oyster shell made for chickens.
It's made from ground up oyster shells and corral calcium.
Figure there's something in the corral the yeast likes.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by der wo »

Shells are mainly calcium carbonate. But corrals have much magnesium too, I have heard over 10%. And many trace minerals.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by Pikey »

What is your PH ? You can get a ph meter from a decent garden centre for £10-15.

Did you Aeriate your new ferment ? (Aquarium pump and airstone for 1/2 hour or so) - promotes the multiplication of the yeast in the aerobic phase.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by UrToopid »

My well water has a natural pH of 7.6 which seems high, until you add fermenting grains... I've mentioned RA before... Residual Alkalinity... it's a liquid's ability to hold its alkalinity, or to resist factors that work to lower it. Consider it to be the natural acid resistance of your water. Even though my water has a high starting alkalinity, it has very poor RA. My mashes can drop to as low as a 3.2.. really fast.

I have found a couple of ways to avoid this, and to correct it after the fact. A fast cool-down is one of the best methods to avoid acid production to begin with. Malts produce most of their acids between 138F and 100F.. since you are done with the dextrin/glucose rest by the time you have cooled below 140ish, that is the time to put the wort chiller to it. By that time, my mash usually passes the iodine test with flying colors. I used to cap it off and let it cool over night, but I was making way too much acid. This method of cooling thru that "acid rest" really helps.

Another side to this is thick, heavy mashes with a 2.5 to 3 pound per gallon grain to water ratio...going for higher ABV.. Tons of residual acid, sugar shock on the yeast.. bad news all the way around..once you realize you have this problem, the best thing to do is not add anything but H2O.. thin it down so you are under 14 Brix or so. (8 % PABV)

It also helps to have some Nitrogen.. there is a product called Fermaid K out there that has DAP.. or if you want to stay organic, an even newer product called "Fermaid O". The "O" is for Organic...this produces Nitrogen which strengthens yeast cell walls against higher ABV content.

Anyway, this is the path that I am on at the moment.
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Re: Pain fully slow wash

Post by UrToopid »

Lately, with the addition of oyster shells, and a pinch of Epsom salt, And a little backset, I can dial my starting pH in to a 5.8 ish. With the wort chiller to beat the Acid Rest to the punch, my pitching pH is right around a 5.0. I haven't dropped below 3.8 pH on a
Fermented wash since making these adjustments. Still having some long ferments though so I have been looking at yeast propogation. Thus the Fermaid, the jury is still out on that. I haven't made a new mash with it, but from what I am reading, and seeing with my slow finishing ferments, I definitely think this is worth trying.
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