Expanded porous ceramic packing

[DrGreenT]

Though I am quite new here, I've been reading thoroughly on this forum for many years, almost always finding my answer right away. I have read all the rules we live by, novice readers section, etc. I've noticed that people are quite resistant to change (like the adoption of PTFE as an acceptable material), for good reason. I also see that it takes quite a large burden of proof to change people's views about accepted materials, so I hope this can be an open and reasonable conversation about what the burden of proof is in material suitability in distillation. The material in question is a form of expanded porous ceramic that goes by the name of Cermedia marinepure biofilter.



http://www.cermedia.com/MarinePureTechSheet.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Chemically Inert

Hydrophilic Adsorbs water and stays wet longer

Low Pressure Drop

Unaffected by ozone

MarinePure bio-media is made from an ultra high surface area ceramic. The open and
extensive network of interconnected pores and channels offers little resistance to water flow. This
inorganic aluminosilicate product is light weight, robust and inert.

I am still waiting to hear back from the company by email for a proper MSDS. Edit: They returned my email and claim to not have an MSDS for the product, but that it is simply a "sodium aluminosilicate ceramic" with no hazards associated with the product.The closest comparison I have been able to find to this product thus far is alumninosilicate firebrick:



The MSDS for a standard refractory aluminosilicate firebrick can be seen here:

http://www.celsius-group.com/wp-content ... SDS_EN.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here is the part about chemical composition:


Here is the part about chemical/physical properties:


I have personally run the low-density blocks of Cermedia cut into 1/2" cubes in 30-32" of 3" packed column on my VM still for a couple cleaning/trial runs, and it significantly out-performed neatly packed SS wool in take-off rate, with both producing ~azeo. It did require thorough rinsing prior to use as it does contain a lot of dust, but naturally it is heavier than air and those particles would not/did not end up in the finished product.

The benefit of Cermedia is the extremely high surface area of the material, yet very minimal restriction to flow which makes it very suitable as a packing material, possibly moreso than SPP. It also has next to no thermal transfer properties, which might further help in separating fractions with appropriate column insulation? Here is a video demonstrating it's porosity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gODPcUgs3Xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So as far as I can tell, as long as the proper MSDS closely matches that of firebrick and other ceramics, it should be safe to use as a packing material. Thoughts?

[jonnys_spirit]

Looks interesting and I aam in the process of putting together a CCVM. I have some copper mesh but better would still be better

Can you purchase it in the 1/2" cubes?

Cheers!
-j

[seamusm53]

It should work fine as packing though if you have previously used copper packing you will of course lose the chemical advantage of copper in terms of sulphides. Ideally you would fill the column side to side with the material by using smaller cubes or by milling it down to the inside diameter of the column. But if you do saw or mill this material please wear a high efficiency mask with good ventilation to prevent silica dust lung problems. Need to keep liver disease as the only health risk from this hobby.

[cede]

There are many porous medias used in aquarium filters.
All are supposed to be inert and their role is to trap biological flora that will reduce ammonia and such in aquariums.
I wonder which ones we could use

[DrGreenT]

I purchased it in a bulk bag and cut it down to the size of sugar cubes or so. It is structurally fairly strong, but very delicate during handling, so time will tell if it compacts over time. The nice thing about this material is that if it does start to come apart it will just flake and gravity should bring it back into the boiler, so would just need additional packing on top over time (won't plug the column).

Here's the bag I bought, it's just under 4 gallons: http://a.co/g5fbe0I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It's enough to probably pack 4 or 5 columns since you don't need more than 36"x3", ended up being quite a bit more than necessary. They now offer a different style that might work better: http://a.co/8bx0RlB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It's random shapes so you may get away piecing it together in your column without having to cut it, which would make it a little more sturdy over time I believe.

seamus, I was actually cutting it with an exacto knife, no saw or mill needed so the risk of dust inhalation is basically none. It is that delicate and fine, although ideally milling big blocks into perfect 3" cylinders would be the ultimate way to use it IMO. My column is built out of copper so I'm not too worried about not having the sulphate advantage, it's not much of an issue with SPP, SS scrubbies, raschig rings, or other non-copper packing so I don't think it's much of an issue here either, as long as you have some in the vapor path.

[DrGreenT]

There are many porous medias used in aquarium filters.
All are supposed to be inert and their role is to trap biological flora that will reduce ammonia and such in aquariums.
I wonder which ones we could use

I think many of them that aren't polymers should be useable (feather rock, etc). What got me on to this product was seeing the success everyone was having with lava rock (which BTW is still way more cost-effective and efficient than most of the other packing materials out there). But I thought why not expand on that success and find something with similar but improved qualities, i.e. porosity? I can't wait to take a video and show everyone the take-off speed in hearts with this packing in a VM, it's unbelieveably fast to me. I'll post a full build thread now that I have a modified 15.5G keg boiler instead of the old 2" quick-flange on a 30L keg which was a PITA to keep sealed.

[Twisted Brick]

What got me on to this product was seeing the success everyone was having with lava rock (which BTW is still way more cost-effective and efficient than most of the other packing materials out there). But I thought why not expand on that success and find something with similar but improved qualities, i.e. porosity? I can't wait to take a video and show everyone the take-off speed in hearts with this packing in a VM, it's unbelievably fast to me. I'll post a full build thread now that I have a modified 15.5G keg boiler instead of the old 2" quick-flange on a 30L keg which was a PITA to keep sealed.

Man this stuff looks like firebrick! I installed two different brands of firebrick in my wood-fired oven, and one of them was significantly softer and more prone to crumbling than the other. I would love to see how the CerMedia products would hold up to tumbling.

Reading through the most preferred ceramic-type packing here on HD, I just picked up a cross between marbles and lava rock, enough to just fill my 3" x 54" column. I assume the proper name for it is scoria, but not sure. These are fairly light and porous, but I like the looks of the porosity of the CerMedia.

Looking forward to your results on the new thread.

[DrGreenT]

Update: ran it again this weekend with some 10% Birdwatcher TPW. I had put about 5-6" of tighly packed copper mesh on top of the Cermedia last run, but I believe I was getting a lot of puking, so this time I took it out and left around 7" between the top of the packing and the flange to my VM tee. All in all I had about 4" of SS or copper mesh packing, and ~30" of cermedia. I was pulling off at around 1 L/hour at between 188 and 190 proof. I could push it closer to 2+ L/hour without reducing ABV but it was causing column temps to rise so I backed it off. Still trying to get the hang of running the still, but the product that came out is very nice, but still seems like a bit of tails flavors in the product, and still a bit of white haze after cutting to 40%. My wife told me she likes the flavor, I'm not so crazy about it. Is it possible that I need to do a stripping run in a potstill and just run low wines in the charge for a cleaner product? I find it hard to believe that 1 L/hour is too fast, especially when the column was stabilizing at 172-173F at that speed, and coming out at 188-190 proof. This is my 3rd run with this still and the best yet, but I still feel like I can do better.