Templeton Rye

[shizam]

Am I the only one who is pissed off about Templeton Rye? I know several small batch distillers in my locals area to work really hard at making their own product. Than you hear about "distilleries" who just buy their product and market it as their own. I talked to one small distiller in my local area who is only breaking even. He said that he went to a trade show and there was a "distiller" who sold whiskey and vodka, but he didn't even own a still.

Many of the "distilleries" that do this claim that they only do it to raise revenue and establish their brand while they build their still and get equipment. But you can't learn how to make whiskey by buying it. This just pisses me off so much.

[bearriver]

Its a free market. Don't buy it. Without brands like this, you wouldn't have distinguished brands like Woodshed, for instance.

Why does this piss you off so much? Everyone is making money, and people are happy to buy the product. There isn't a victim in sight.

Sales is a legitmiate buisness. These companies are entitled to ever sale they earn. Caveat Emptor...

[shizam]

Are you kidding me!! There aren't any victims? Talk to the small start up distillers who take out a second mortgage and take a 70% pay cut so they can distill their own spirits. And no, not everyone is making money. There are a lot of legitimate small batch distillers who are really struggling. The people who distill their own spirits do it for a love of their craft. Those who just buy it do it for the money. I buy a lot of my whiskey from smaller distillers because I want to promote more diversity within the industry.

Templeton is so pretentious. They posted a photo with a caption that read "The hayday of bootlegging starts and ends with Templeton Rye." It's just so arrogant coming from someone who doesn't even make their own product. And it's a slap in the face to all the small distilleries that are living from run to run.

This is so typical of our society. Instead of pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps and working hard, there are people who are looking for shortcuts.

[thecroweater]

If they are just a marketing company those folks they are buying it from might disagree, just saying

[shizam]

They might disagree with what?

[Jimbo]

False advertising, misleading, diluting perceptions of good REAL 'craft' whiskey, hurting the small guy.

It would be exactly like some asshole stopping at the grocery store and loading up on crap trucked in produce, and selling it at the farmers market for twice as mush as fresh local produce. If I saw that happen I might pop the fucker in the nose. This is different how?

[shizam]

Couldn't have said it better!

[Jimbo]

Unfortunately I like Templeton Rye. haha. And I cant stand Redemption Rye. And they both come from the MGP megadistillery in Indiana. I cant remember trying Bulliet, but someone here recently said it sucked. Its from there too. So apparently this big corporation can make good or bad. Id like to be a fly on the wall in their boardroom and hear the conversations.

for what its worth, I like Templeton, but I wont buy it, anymore, on general principle. I support folks like Woodshed. I dream to follow his steps someday, maybe soon. Business plan has been started, but with 2 kids in college and a cush job that pays me too much, its a hard move. When they whack me....

[shizam]

Interesting that their white rye isn't good. Goes back to my original point that you can't learn how to make whiskey by buying it. If whiskey was scarce I would drink it. But since there are so many other great brands out there I can afford to have principles. Not to mention that I have five gallons of my own likker sitting in the garage.

I still wouldn't be so pissed off if they admitted to what they did. But if you read their responses on Facebook they sound like a lawyer. They just kind of neither confirm or deny. They have said that they have "partners." But they don't say who they are, and they bury it within pages upon pages of talking about how great they are.

The thing that gets me is just how pretentious they are. There is actually a great article on this that I will post below.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... diana.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Selvagem]

In my opinion, there's absolutely nothing wrong with sourcing whiskey, and the way you age and proof the product can be a real showcase for skill. How many distilleries can even produce a 95% rye bill? It would be very hard for a small place, I think. But...they should be transparent about what they're doing. Templeton is maybe the worst offender, as they really try to obscure the fact that they don't distill their own product. They are very good at what they do; they just misrepresent themselves.

[shizam]

The only thing they do is lie about their product and bottling. So if that's what you mean by "They are good at what they do" then you are right. They are good at lying. There are many other companies that do this. I only mention Templeton because they are the worst. They are so pretentious!! Other distilleries that were mentioned actually print the fact that they don't distill the whiskey on their bottle. My biggest complaint is that they are so arrogant and don't even make their own spirits. How would you like it if I bought some high end Scotch, put it in my own bottle, and then talked down to you about how much better "my whiskey" is than yours. That is literally what they do.

[thecroweater]

Ah MGP , learn something new every day There bourbon whiskey is sold here under the brand name Cougar, it pretty popular and would be in the top four sellers with Wild turkey, Jacks and beam, its better than beam and probably on par with the other 2 . I have heard that Bulleit Rye was pretty good but find that suddenly I'm not as excited to try it as I was a few minutes ago. Just upset my day finding out Bulleit are involved in these shenanigans as well

[LWTCS]

I have enjoyed Bulleit rye and found the price is very reasonable. I have also tried some $65 whiskey that was in fact brewed on sight and it was good but not $65 good.

There are plenty of small operators that are employing both methods. These poor fellows are trying to keep the lights on. Remeber that in many jurisdictions the distiller is paid last. So these guys can be out of pocket for a long time.
That coupled with the fact that profits are often predicated on economy of scale.
From the begining much of the industry was a recovery operation. But if as an operator you have to pay for fermentable material or pay for your building then you have to find a way to keep the lights on.

If truely hand crafting does not pay enough to keep the lights on, it makes sense to do what you have to do.

[bearriver]

+1 Larry

It's unfortunate, but nobody is entitled to a sale or success. To say Templeton is stealing a sale from a the little guy, is insinuating that the little guy was entitled to that sale in the first place. That's a very big reach. Templeton bottles aren't at a farmers market. They sit in liquor stores next to dozens of other overpriced, shitty bottles of liquor. Hence the Caveat. Buyer Beware.

A product is only worth what someone is willing to pay. "The worlds best cheeseburgers" by my local corner store are overpriced and made from frozen patties. But I'm not chomping at the bit, beacuse the guy that owns the place is just trying to keep his lights on. I drive somewhere else, or make my own at home.

The little guy distiller is hurting because of too much regulation and taxes, for which Templeton seems to get the credit... If you want to ostracize a buisness, start with your local congressman.

Not to mention there has never been more micro distilleries in US history. The market is bearing all the micro distilled booze it can handle as of now. They can't all be successful, can they?

[rad14701]

Here's a good point to keep in mind... While many of us may have become liquor snobs over the years, your average consumer couldn't give a rats ass about the manufacturing process chain because they are just after cheap spirits with an acceptable taste... Only those with a discerning palate make purchases based on the full bodied taste of specific spirits... And even then it is only those who drink straight up (neat) or on the rocks, rather than with a mixer, that really go after the intricacies and subtleties that specific spirits embody... They don't care about or perhaps even know the difference between single malt, bourbon versus whiskey, multiple distillations, etc...

All that being said, I feel that anyone putting spirits to market should be required to prominently display whether a specific branded blend is made 100% in house or merely rectified/fortified, oaked and aged, or blended using raw spirits from other distilleries...

[Jimbo]

There's good points on both sides, no doubt. But more transparent and honest representation would be nice. I dont like to be blatantly lied to or manipulated.

I dont think the market is saturated yet, wait another 10 years for that. Its really still at its infancy. Craft beer is pretty damn near saturated, and we went through the same shit back then with that, and still do to some extent. Slightly different maybe, 'big beer' who commands the shelf space in markets, came out with deceitfully branded and packaged 'craft beer' look alikes, that were pretty poor beers, with the intent to 1) maintain their shelf space, and 2) put newbs off craft beer and back onto their bud light and miller light. Manipulation at its finest. (Edit: Maybe its not any different at all. The wanna be buyer 'distillers' being the pawns here)

Like I said, I like Templeton. If it wasnt for their lack of ethics and integrity Id buy it over many other commercial mega distillery hooches like Jack or Beam. Its just a matter of principle at this point. Altho I still prefer to support the 'true' small guy.

Post same time as Rad. +1 Rad.

[thecroweater]

Gawd sakes next you'll be telling me my favourite bourbon (Old Grandad) is made by my most hated bourbon (Beam). What's that ya say, they are! well be damned I'll make my own then

[shizam]

bearriver- Why don't you go to Evanson Handcrafted Distilling LLC, Dry Fly, 21 Window, or any other small local distillery and see what they have to say. I am in no way saying that small distillers are entitled to anything. I am saying that it's not right for Templeton to blatantly lie and misrepresent themselves.

[bearriver]

How exactly are they are lying just beacuse they don't have a label saying the whiskey was sourced ? 

Its beyond me how someone can actually get angry because of this. Have you ever bought a store brand product? Do you think the store actually made that product? Toilet paper is toilet paper. Why should anyone care if Wal-Mart slapped a Great Value sticker on it and said it was the bomb?

Were just going to have to agree to disagree. They are not guilty of false advertiment in anything I have seen. Calling someone a thief or a liar is a mighty serious accusation. More so when that party isnt here to defend themselves...

Bear River

[SoMo]

How exactly are they are lying just beacuse they don't have a label saying the whiskey was sourced ? Or are they lying beacuse they hype up their brand?

Its beyond me how someone can actually get angry because of this. Have you ever bought a store brand product? Do you think the store actually made that product? Toilet paper is toilet paper. Why should anyone care if Wal-Mart slapped a Great Value sticker on it and said it was the bomb?

Were just going to have to agree to disagree. They are not guilty of false advertiment in anything I have seen. Calling someone a thief or a liar is a mighty serious accusation. More so when that party isnt here to defend themselves...

I ran a water bottling plant for many years, we bottled the same water for brand X as we did for Culligan, price point being the only difference besides labeling. A twenty Oz bottle of brand X sold for .79$ cullingan 2.00$. It's called private labeling a business tactic that serves many big corporations well. What I think upsets you is the lack of business ethics. Some companies have them some don't. The discerning customer must not buy into the lack of principles some company's use to market their wares, my .02$.

[shizam]

Bearriver- I e-mailed them and asked for their side before I started my rant. I waited a few days and they never responded. I have been blowing up their facebook with my righteous hate. They are free to respond at any time. And I will keep educating their customers until they man us and admit what they did. You should read some of their responses. It's s if they were written by their lawyer.

[LWTCS]

Dunderhead himself worked as a contracter.
Similarly, my friend just inked a contract for a specific product. The product is 100% hand made but he will take no credit as he is under contract. They will send over the barrels. He will fill them and send them back out to the folks that will take credit for the product inception.
Is the product a lesser product simply because in was not made "on site"?

If you are spending, find a drop that you like at an agreeable price point.

[SoMo]

Bearriver- I e-mailed them and asked for their side before I started my rant. I waited a few days and they never responded. I have been blowing up their facebook with my righteous hate. They are free to respond at any time. And I will keep educating their customers until they man us and admit what they did. You should read some of their responses. It's s if they were written by their lawyer.

This is why we make our own, their work is not as good as ours bottom line. Make something better as Rad said we've become liquor snobs, the few distillers you/we like endorse buy a bottle of their stuff that keeps their doors open longer. They won't respond to you. They are peddling a product on a big platform, quality has a way of driving out the competition.

[warp1]

What kills me about Teppleton is these knuckleheads in Iowa...still think it is distilled over by Ames. Many buy because they think it's local. I am more depressed about our uninformed consumers than I am about Templeton.

I think Cedar Ridge (here in town) is identical quality wise to Templeton...and same price point, so if I purchase...that's where I go.

Lately, haven't purchases much at all...thanks to this site

[shizam]

I saw one of their defenders on facebook wrote #Iowabrag. What an idiot! He is bragging about something that isn't even made in his state.

[WhiteDevil504]

There is also Mississippi River distilling and Iowa distilling company who both make very decent product and actually do so in state. There are a couple others near Des Moines that I haven't had a chance to try but am eager to, specifically broadbent. Distilling in Iowa is still pretty small with only 7 distilleries. Nebraska only has one that I know of in east central Nebraska so I guess we are at least ahead of them.....

I do agree aside from the story, Templeton is nothing exciting and very few Iowans know it's not even distilled here...with time that will change.