Oregon

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Bushman
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Oregon

Post by Bushman »

This may be different than ours but if not I hope for Oregon's sake this does not pass. Costco was the driving force in Washington State and once privatized our taxes on alcohol became the highest in the nation.
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Re: Oregon

Post by Desvio »

This has been tried before, and yeah it would be a really bad move. But truth of the matter is the generations that have a clue are getting older and slowly being replaced by a younger less informed (and more 'entitled') generation. The OLCC has been in firm control for a long time, they are not about to give up to anyone.
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Re: Oregon

Post by bearriver »

Bushman wrote:Costco was the driving force in Washington State and once privatized our taxes on alcohol became the highest in the nation.
+1 Our state excise tax on liquor is grossly disproportionate compared to every single other state in the country.

Oregon, you don't want this.
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Re: Oregon

Post by GrassHopper »

Bear, it just makes me soooo mad, I could spit! Your state likker tax is outrageous. And I don't even live there. :x
Wake up Oregon!
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Re: Oregon

Post by Desvio »

GrassHopper wrote:Bear, it just makes me soooo mad, I could spit! Your state likker tax is outrageous. And I don't even live there. :x
Wake up Oregon!

When you look at WA with the highest tax followed closely by OR, it really makes me scratch my head because at the same time we (OR and WA) are leading the nation in craft distilling growth...

Fortune / Craft Distilling Aug 2015: http://fortune.com/2015/08/01/distiller ... er-liquor/
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Re: Oregon

Post by pfshine »

I don't even know where to start. If you decrease the tax on alcohol sales the "lost" money isn't going to the "out of state grocery chain" there is no money going to them. That said the "lost" money will be made up in the shear number of increased sales. With the number of new stores opening up more people will be employed and yet more taxes come in and new spending money to tax again when they spend it. I had to hunt down the bill to read it. That site conveniently doesn't have it linked. There is nothing in it that looks bad to me. All it does is take the monopoly away from the state government. It in fact does the opposite of what that site is claiming on most things. Here is a link to the bill. http://media.oregonlive.com/mapes/other ... 20text.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Oregon

Post by cranky »

My opinion of Wa privatizing liquor is a little different. Yes the taxes are ridiculously high and there were and are growing pains but the state ran the liquor sales so incompetently that they actually couldn't keep track of the liquor. I for one am glad if I want a bottle of something I can get it at my local grocery store or Total Wine or many other places, including buying it directly from the distillery at Proof, instead of relying on what some uninformed bureaucrat happens to decide should be stocked in my local liquor store, which wasn't a hell of a lot. I don't know about this new initiative in OR but I can tell you they seem to have handled the legalization of another substance (not to be discussed here) much better than Wa did so I would hope Or does a better job with liquor too.
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Re: Oregon

Post by LWTCS »

Desvio wrote:
GrassHopper wrote:Bear, it just makes me soooo mad, I could spit! Your state likker tax is outrageous. And I don't even live there. :x
Wake up Oregon!

When you look at WA with the highest tax followed closely by OR, it really makes me scratch my head because at the same time we (OR and WA) are leading the nation in craft distilling growth...

Fortune / Craft Distilling Aug 2015: http://fortune.com/2015/08/01/distiller ... er-liquor/

That's because those states have made the application process, fees, and operating parameters the easiest in the nation to realize.
It's like a trade off of some sort. They essentially remove the barrier to entry and tax the crap out of all of the participants.
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Re: Oregon

Post by MDH »

cranky wrote:My opinion of Wa privatizing liquor is a little different. Yes the taxes are ridiculously high and there were and are growing pains but the state ran the liquor sales so incompetently that they actually couldn't keep track of the liquor. I for one am glad if I want a bottle of something I can get it at my local grocery store or Total Wine or many other places, including buying it directly from the distillery at Proof, instead of relying on what some uninformed bureaucrat happens to decide should be stocked in my local liquor store, which wasn't a hell of a lot. I don't know about this new initiative in OR but I can tell you they seem to have handled the legalization of another substance (not to be discussed here) much better than Wa did so I would hope Or does a better job with liquor too.
All that, and it's still not as bad as British Columbia.

Most Scotch is literally twice to three times the price in British Columbia as it is in Oregon or California - and they've already got high taxes, so that's really saying something.

A bottle of Smirnoff (Not that I'd ever buy it, but-) is $10 in some states, $14-$17 in California, and $24 in BC.

A bottle of Amaretto can be had for roughly $13 at Trader Joe's in San Francisco... Or close to $30 in BC.

The funniest part? The BC government has massive buying power as a monopoly, so they're paying much, much less than any of these smaller chains in California, yet their prices are still three times as high.

I, for one, would love to see our government step away from the liquor business. The idea that you can take any industry or area of life, such as anything the government deems a "luxury" - like Art, Jewelry, Dairy or Wine - and tax the hell out of it - denigrates the idea that good things should be available to all people in life, and not just the rich.
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Re: Oregon

Post by skow69 »

It has always been popular to bitch about the OLCC, but I have to admit that recently I have seen a lighter side.

First, I can go on line at any time and see which store has any particular brand in stock, and exactly what it costs.

Second, there was a particular brand of absinthe that my local didn't stock. I asked the manager to get some for me. He brought in a case, at $70 a bottle. [The best price I could find online was $68 plus shipping.] I only got to buy 4 of them before they were gone, and now it is always in stock. I just asked him to bring in another "special order" for me. In a year this little store might have the best selection of high end absinthes in the country. Har!

I gotta say, it's working for me.

Do any of you Huskies or Cougars have a feel for how Oregon prices compare to Washington's, before or after privatization?
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Re: Oregon

Post by GrassHopper »

Gentlemen, I certainly have no issues with privatizing the sales of alcohol. My complaint centers on the ridiculous taxes that are being fostered onto the populace by the state of Wa. and Or. And if the argument is, taxes create jobs.... then let's tax the hell out of everything so everybody has a job and they quit sucking off those who have the jobs. With all due respect. :ebiggrin:
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Re: Oregon

Post by skow69 »

That is not my point at all. I was just admitting that the OLCC is maybe not the bunch of jack booted thugs that I thought they were.

How do Oregon's booze prices compare to Idaho's?
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Re: Oregon

Post by Desvio »

OLCC will always be thugs, but you are right in one aspect, they are not nearly as bad as they are made out to be. The office is not far from me, and talking candidly with them some time back, that are all for promoting growing distillers. And the only hurdle here is satisfying the feds, once you can do that they are all got getting you up a running (clearly profit driven).

They even stepped up when Washington residence were crossing the border fire the cheaper booze here in Oregun, now I cannot vouch for Idaho, but booze in Montana is a little cheaper. Great little distillery in Innis MT makes some nice stuff.
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Re: Oregon

Post by pythonshine »

I can understand it on both sides of this here fence. Here in Ontario if you want to sell hard likkker or wine you gotta do it through the LCBO. Now that would be dandy but they want you to sell it to them for pennies and just to meet there restrictions you gotta be a contortionist and know how to give a good handy! As a plus because you gotta buy from them you have a limited selection....mind you there are some bits and bites that you can get around but thats for another bit. Now by selling to them (if you can meet the order) you get Ontario wide distribution. There are goods and bads..I guess you have to decide as a Distiller. As a consumer it is pretty well all bad save for a few things as mentioned above. JMHO
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Re: Oregon

Post by rubber duck »

So basically general stores want to be able to sell booze? The olcc/ government wants to get all the money? Oregon has a horrible tax on beer and booze, but it's easy to get started brewing or distilling. No sales tax so you get the Washington folks to cross the bridge to shop.

You have to pay a shit ton to get drunk in Oregon but hey you can buy a machine gun, that's pretty progressive if you where to ask me.

Edit just trying to show some really interesting things about oregon sorry.
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Re: Oregon

Post by Desvio »

rubber duck wrote: You have to pay a shit ton to get drunk in Oregon but hey you can buy a machine gun, that's pretty progressive if you where to ask me.

Edit just trying to show some really interesting things about oregon sorry.
Much like the misinformation around owning a still in Oregon (which is legal till you distill alcohol without a permit), machine guns if fully automatic weapon require a machine gun licence licence from the ATF
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Re: Oregon

Post by skow69 »

I keep hearing about these horrible taxes, but I don't see any numbers. Let's see some side by side comparisons. I want to know how badly I'm being ripped off. Here are current Oregon prices for 750ml.

Black Velvet................$10
J.D. green label.............12
Maker's Mark.................30
Booker's 8 yr.................83
Knob Cr. Sngle Brl 120pr....52
Plymouth gin..................35
Gordon's.......................10
Jameson Irish..................30
Everclear 190pr..............17
Bacardi 151....................26
Dewer's.........................27
Glenmorangie 15 yr..........39
Grey Goose....................36
Vieux Pontarlier...............71
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: Oregon

Post by bearriver »

skow69 wrote:I keep hearing about these horrible taxes, but I don't see any numbers.
Price check down isle "Wyoming".
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Re: Oregon

Post by rubber duck »

Yet another reason to like new Hampshire....
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Re: Oregon

Post by LWTCS »

California is well positioned with that rate too.
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Re: Oregon

Post by StillLearning1 »

I got them black state blues..... :cry:

I'd throw up some current ABC store prices, but I havnt been in a liqor store in a long time to be honest. Not in my home state anyways.
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
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Re: Oregon

Post by Medstiller »

Wyoming is it's own world. You can buy your booze in the drive through there. Overall booze in Oregon is cheaper. Buying a bottle in Vancouver, WA is about $10 more than Oregon and that is from taxes. Privatization is a BAD thing, I would rather keep OLCC and my local liquor stores, than give it up to Costco and Safeway. The box stores are not going to stock anything other than the same mass produced crap that brought us to this forum anyways. I don't see the move Washington made as a good one.
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Re: Oregon

Post by Bushman »

Medstiller wrote:Wyoming is it's own world. You can buy your booze in the drive through there. Overall booze in Oregon is cheaper. Buying a bottle in Vancouver, WA is about $10 more than Oregon and that is from taxes. Privatization is a BAD thing, I would rather keep OLCC and my local liquor stores, than give it up to Costco and Safeway. The box stores are not going to stock anything other than the same mass produced crap that brought us to this forum anyways. I don't see the move Washington made as a good one.
+1 when Costco pushed it we did not realize the state was going to add a second tax. I believe the state is making more money as they get the extra tax and do not have to pay employ benefits.
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Re: Oregon

Post by skow69 »

I want to know how badly I'm being ripped off.
Well, now I know.

But what logic is behind Washington adding an extra tax when they privatized?
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Re: Oregon

Post by cranky »

skow69 wrote:I keep hearing about these horrible taxes, but I don't see any numbers. Let's see some side by side comparisons. I want to know how badly I'm being ripped off. Here are current Oregon prices for 750ml.
Here are the Wa prices post tax from the Total Wine site. There are Total Wines all over my area and I can get just about anything there. I couldn't get much of anything from my state run joke of a liquor stiores
Black Velvet................$10 $9.63
J.D. green label.............12
Maker's Mark.................30 $28.91
Booker's 8 yr.................83 7 year, not 8 = $75.90
Knob Cr. Sngle Brl 120pr....52 $57.83
Plymouth gin..................35 $32.52
Gordon's.......................10 $10.83
Jameson Irish..................30 $26.50
Everclear 190pr..............17 151Pr (151 is highest proof allowed in Wa) $21.68
Bacardi 151....................26 $24.09
Dewer's.........................27 $26.50
Glenmorangie 15 yr..........39 $38.55
Grey Goose....................36 $30.11
Vieux Pontarlier...............71
Seems like you guys have nothing to lose
skow69 wrote:
I want to know how badly I'm being ripped off.
Well, now I know.

But what logic is behind Washington adding an extra tax when they privatized?
To appease greedy politicians and punish those of us who feel the the government shouldn't have a monopoly on alcohol and are too incompetent to do the job right. I have been trying real hard to not to go into a political rant on this subject but the truth is the Wa system was paying for alcohol they weren't receiving, they weren't able to keep track of what they did have, the liquor stores had ridiculous hours and where I live were only stocked with crap liquor. Maybe some of you other guys live in areas that were deemed worthy to have decent liquor but not everybody did so I see privatization as well worth it.
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Re: Oregon

Post by skow69 »

Wow! This is ridiculous. Three out of four prices are cheaper in WA even with the extra $12.50 tax. The OLCC must be making a tidy profit. So privatization, with competition, ought to bring prices down, right?

Or, like you said, we got nuthin to lose.
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Re: Oregon

Post by cranky »

skow69 wrote:Wow! This is ridiculous. Three out of four prices are cheaper in WA even with the extra $12.50 tax. The OLCC must be making a tidy profit. So privatization, with competition, ought to bring prices down, right?

Or, like you said, we got nuthin to lose.
In all honesty I was surprised at that too but Total Wine is a big outfit and can keep prices competitive as a result. I don't know what they would cost at a smaller place like Safeway because the taxes come as you are checking out so I can't just look it up online but I guess I have made my opinion of the government monopolizing liquor pretty clear. If you guys are happy with what you got keep it, I wasn't so I feel privatizing is a good thing.
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Re: Oregon

Post by KingE »

The prices in the post above from total wine feel pretty close to Costco pricing in central WA. Safeway is a little more once they add the 20% sales tax at the register. Costco shows the entire price on their labels. State stores in Oregon feel higher priced to me when we are down there so we tend to carry what we want with us.
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Re: Oregon

Post by pfshine »

KingE wrote:20% sales tax.
Dear Lord, I just vomited a little. I can say I will never live there under such unbelievable taxation.
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Re: Oregon

Post by Oldvine Zin »

cranky wrote:
skow69 wrote:I keep hearing about these horrible taxes, but I don't see any numbers. Let's see some side by side comparisons. I want to know how badly I'm being ripped off. Here are current Oregon prices for 750ml.
Here are the Wa prices post tax from the Total Wine site. There are Total Wines all over my area and I can get just about anything there. I couldn't get much of anything from my state run joke of a liquor stiores
Black Velvet................$10 $9.63
J.D. green label.............12
Maker's Mark.................30 $28.91
Booker's 8 yr.................83 7 year, not 8 = $75.90
Knob Cr. Sngle Brl 120pr....52 $57.83
Plymouth gin..................35 $32.52
Gordon's.......................10 $10.83
Jameson Irish..................30 $26.50
Everclear 190pr..............17 151Pr (151 is highest proof allowed in Wa) $21.68
Bacardi 151....................26 $24.09
Dewer's.........................27 $26.50
Glenmorangie 15 yr..........39 $38.55
Grey Goose....................36 $30.11
Vieux Pontarlier...............71
Seems like you guys have nothing to lose
But Cranky those prices do not include the washington state liquor tax - for an example the black velvet you have listed as 9.63$ is really 12.43$ at checkout

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