Making Dutch Gin (geneva)

[Odin]

Hi there,

As a Dutchman I have started to take an interest in making "geneva" or Dutch Gin. In Holland this drink is called "jenever" or "genever". I've been told the English word "gin" derives from "genever" and the Dutch call "geneva" "genever", because that is the Dutch word for "juniper", geneva's main taste ingrediënt.

The first geneva was made by Fransiscus Sylvius, a Dutch professor from the Leiden University (actually called Frans van den Bos, but that does not sound half as exotic, off course, as the more famous Latin translation). He made geneva on request on the Dutch East Indies Trade Company. This company sailed to the east and a one way trip would take as much as a year, with only few points where fresh food could be taken on board. The older the food became, during the sailing trip, the more stomach problems the sailors encountered. Sylvius made a drink that would help strengthen the stomach and help to prevent kidney failure. And since the juniper berry was known to do this, he made a juniper liqor.

Nowadays a number of geneva varieties exist in the Netherlands. "Old genever", meaning it is made the traditional way (and from malt wine) and "ýoung genever" which is made in a more modern way (and from purified, 96% alcohol). Right here, I want to give you my recipe for "young genever".

I first make, from sugar, a distillation wine. After clearing, and skiprunning, I distill this "wine" in my fractionating column. Heads and tails are left out, and hearts (95% and more) I collect. After collecting the hearts, I add distilled water, in order to get the alcohol percentage down to 35%.

Per liter of 35% liquid (pretty much a vodka, by the way), I add 18 grams of juniper berries (lightly crushed), 9 grams of coriander (the seeds, not the leaves!), 0,5 gram of lemon peel (without the white stuff on the inside, please do get rid of that!), 0,5 gram of orange peel, 0,5 gram of mango peel and 0,1 gram of liquorice. I let these ingredients macerate for no less than 12 and no more than 24 hours.

Note: I read about macerating geneva or gin ingredients in alcohol as strong as 40% of 50%. I would not do that, since later on you want to use a pot still to distill everything. And distilling a 40% or 50% base drink, will mean that the first parts coming out of your pot still (containing the fruit essential oils) will be over 80% and start loosing taste. Not what we want. Deluting the liqor to 35% will prevent it.

So, continueing with the main process: put everything in a pot still and start distilling. Nice and slow will do it. No need to hurry. Leaving the ingredients in the liquid you are about to pot distill, is called hot compounding (as oposed to cold and warm compounding, which I will treat later on, and of which I am not too big a fan). Make sure you leave enough head space between your distillation vessel and the helm, since it might boil up.

Do not seperate heads. You already did that in the reflux of fractionating column. And if you do throw away the first parts that come out, you will throw away exactly the parts that are high in fruit taste (lemon, orange, mango). Just collect everything until (pretty much) you have half of what you started with. If you pot distill 10 litres of 35%, you should stop when 5 litres are collected. You will leave some alcohol behind, but continuing will create off tastes you do not want. Especially the liquorice comes over heavily if you continue distilling after you've collected half of what you started out with. And that will give a very hot taste to the drink.

After finishing your pot still run, you are probably left with a drink of around 65% tot 70% (depending on your pot still efficiency). Water it down to 42%. Put it in glass bottles (with some head space for air) and leave it to rest for at least 48 hours. Some more rest will give the oils, water and alcohol even more time to settle and balance out.

Drink the geneva at room temperature. Between 18 and 23 degrees centigrade is fine. If you cool this geneva, you compress the liquid and sort of press out the essential oils (due to the hot compounding way of distilling - with berries etc. in the liquor you are distilling - a lot of taste and essential oils came over). Drink the geneva too warm and it will start to'"sweat". Taste will get worse.

Enjoy! And - if you like making your own geneva's - try to experiment a little with other herbs. It pays of!

Odin.

[wildrover]

Thanks for the write up Odin! I'd like to try that recipe one day. My brother loves gin so I'd like to tweak a recipe like yours to come up with an "ultimate" gin that really suits his tastes one day. But for now I'm working on whiskeys since that's my passion.

[Braz]

Thanks Odin. I'm going to file that away for reference when I next try gin. My first two tries were not all that great.

[Odin]

Braz,

If you tell me what you did so far ... maybe I can help?

Odin

[slim chillingsworth]

i finally got around to making this with some slight tweaking to the aromatics, and it is easily the most amazing thing i've ever made. thank you so much for the guidance! i left out the liquorice, mango, and coriander and instead included lavendar, rosemary, and pink peppercorns.

[retlaw]

Odin, have you ever put the herbs and spices in at the start of the sugar wash ferment?

has anyone started a gin with a herb/spice wash low wine base before maceration in high percentage alcohol?

[slim chillingsworth]

Odin, have you ever put the herbs and spices in at the start of the sugar wash ferment?

has anyone started a gin with a herb/spice wash low wine base before maceration in high percentage alcohol?

i would imagine you would lose most of your aromatics in your heads and foreshots. this recipe really relies on having a fully cut, clean product going into the still so you can collect everything. i can attest to how much aroma comes out in the initial runnings.

[olddog]

I have tied many methods to produce gin for my Dutch wife, the best to date is using the vapor infusion method. I put all of the botanicals into a cotton bag and suspend in the neck of my boiler, which contains a neutral wash, and distill with my Flute Mk11


OD

[Odin]

OD,

You use a flute and a neutral wash. Does this mean you do one run only, herbs included? I always wondered what that would do to your taste profile, since you'll be in equilibrium some time, collecting lots of botanical flavour and then draw them off by discarding heads ...

Or do you do a double run. First to make a neutral, then a second botanicals run?

Odin.

[retlaw]

how big of a bag or basket is needed to hold the botancals for a keg size pot? (oz/cup/liter/etc)
would a bag be better because the botanicals don't touch hot metal?

[Odin]

If you want to distill on the grain, the herbs touching the sides of your kegg, that is not a problem. When you distill with an electric element in the wash, you mite run into problems. Is that why you want to put the herbs in a bag?

If you want to use a bag, how big should it be? Phew. If you use say 30 grams of herbs per liter of 35% likker, that would mean like 900 grams (close to a kilo) for 30 liters (kegg is like 50 liters, right?). I guess a bag that can hold like 2 liters would do the trick. I use hop bags sometimes. For the berries that would work. The other herbs are too fine. Maybe put them in a teabag and put the teabag with the juniper berries in the hop bag?

Odin.

[retlaw]

thanks Odin.
yes kegs are 50 L,
so i have a problem then,

i am adding a keg thumper to the big pot,
and i wanted double botanical baskets, one for each pot,
i wanted to put the botanicals in the top of the big pot which is no problem,
and also have botanicals in the thumper keg pot which is the problem,
i did not want to cut the top of the keg, just wanted to add another 2in. flange for the intake and use the factory one on it for the exhaust,

i think the size of basket or bag i would need to hold the botanicals would not fit in the mouth of the 2in keg flange,
or would it?
i was thinking of modifing a 2in pipe to drop down in the neck of the keg to hold the botanical but now thinks it is to small of a container,
the other obtion is make a gin basket that sits on top of the keg, i have no idea what to use for this obtion,
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?
thanks

[Odin]

Retlaw,

I am not much of a builder, unfortunately. Can't help you much there. Maybe we should ask Waylyn? Or PrairyPiss? Sure there are others around understanding your problem and maybe being able to guide to a solution.

Who steps in?

Odin.

[heartcut]

You could re-install just the perforated basket that came with the keg dip tube (without the tube) and use it for your basket. Porbably wouldn't even need the retainer.

[Odin]

If you only vapour infuse your skins & liquorice, you don't need a big basket. Other herbs & berries can go in the boiler or macerate and then filtered out just before distilling.

Odin.

[retlaw]

You could re-install just the perforated basket that came with the keg dip tube (without the tube) and use it for your basket. Porbably wouldn't even need the retainer.

so something that small would be adequate?
i was thinking it needed to be bigger,
if a keg sized thumper needs 900 to 1000g of botanicals like Odin has mentioned then i was thinking it needs to be the size of a liter or quart,
is the sizing i am guessing for the basket right?

[Odin]

Now, I am into heavy gins! And you can split it up. Do the juniper berries (about 20 grams per liter, so about 2/3 of my 900 to 1,000 grams and put these in the likker. If you can distill with berries in (no electrical element in your boiler), I would do that. Also coriander, other stuff can go into the boiler. Only lemon peel and orange peel, actually any peel, and liquorice I would put in the basket. Put what goes in the boiler in like 12 to 24 hours before distilling.

If you have an electrical element in the boiler, you don't want to distill "on the herbs". So you put the same amount of herbs/berries as before (see recipe) in your 35% likker. Let it sit for 5 to 7 days. Take them out (filtering) and distill. Again with the fruit skins and the liquorice in the gin basket.

When you use say 35 grams of berries/herbs per liter of 35% likker (to macerate, etc.), like 20 grams is juniper berries, 10 grams is coriander, leaving 5 grams for other herbs. I tend to go down to 18 grams of juniper, maybe 7 grams of coriander. Peel will be like 1 gram per liter maximum. Rather half. Liquorice like 0,1 to 0,2 grams per liter (I like it hotter, but for a new run/try out ...).

That would mean like 30 grams in your gin basket. So, yes, like this (with maceration or distilling on the herbs) a small gin gasket is enough.

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

thanks Odin.
yes kegs are 50 L,
so i have a problem then,

i am adding a keg thumper to the big pot,
and i wanted double botanical baskets, one for each pot,
i wanted to put the botanicals in the top of the big pot which is no problem,
and also have botanicals in the thumper keg pot which is the problem,
i did not want to cut the top of the keg, just wanted to add another 2in. flange for the intake and use the factory one on it for the exhaust,

i think the size of basket or bag i would need to hold the botanicals would not fit in the mouth of the 2in keg flange,
or would it?
i was thinking of modifing a 2in pipe to drop down in the neck of the keg to hold the botanical but now thinks it is to small of a container,
the other obtion is make a gin basket that sits on top of the keg, i have no idea what to use for this obtion,
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?
thanks

How is your thump keg inlet setup? Does your inlet and outlet both use the same port? Or have you modified the keg? A pic of your setup would be helpful.

Probably better if we didn't tie up Odins thread with coming up with a solution for your setup. So maybe start a thread about adding a vapor botanicals basket to a thumper. And give us a pic or three so we can give better solutions.

[retlaw]

all right, i will,
thanks for the info Odin,
very helpfull,

i will call the new thread "what size gin basket"

[Odin]

Good idea PP, Retlaw,

Make sure (if you don't mind me taking a stand here ) to distinguish between an all vapour infused gin and one where you go "economical" and only vapour infuse what needs to be vapour infused. Leaving the other botanicals in the likker for maceration or "distilling on the herbs".

For the first bit: let's ask Kiwistiller to give his opinion. He does vapour infusion a lot and did build a herbs gasket. Next to "how to build a gin basket" and "how big should it be" another question arises. Here it comes: I have a good idea how to make a macerated or distilled on the herbs gin. And how much herbs are needed. But what are the experiences with vapour infusion? In general: it gives a lighter taste. So just accept that as a fact, or up the amount of vapour infused botanicals to get a heavier gin?

Anyhow, glad to see a great drink catching up on HD!

Odin.

PS: taking one other shot, then of to bed for me.

[retlaw]

what do you think of this one Odin?


How to make a resemblance of Holland Gin out of Rye Whiskey.

Put clarified whiskey, with an equal quantity of water, into your doubling still, together with a sufficient quantity of juniper berries, prepared; take a pound of unflacked lime, immerse it in three pints of water, stir it well—then let it stand three hours, until the lime sinks to the bottom, then pour off the clear lime water, with which boil half an ounce of isinglass cut small, until the latter is dissolved—then pour it into your doubling still with a handful of hops, and a handful of common salt, put on the head and set her a running; when she begins to run, take the first half gallon (which is not so good), and reserve it for the next still you fill—as the first shot generally contains something that will give an unpleasant taste and colour to the gin. When it looses[Pg 106] proof at the worm, take the keg away that contains the gin, and bring it down to a proper strength with rain water, which must previously have been prepared, by having been evaporated and condensed in the doubling still and cooling tub.

This gin when fined, and two years old, will be equal, if not superior to Holland gin.

The isinglass, lime water and salt, helps to refine it in the still, and the juniper berries gives the flavor or taste of Holland gin.

About thirteen pounds of good berries, are sufficient for one barrel.

Be careful to let the gin as it runs from the worm, pass thro' a flannel cloth, which will prevent many unpleasant particles from passing into the liquor, which are contracted in the condensation, and the overjuice imbibed in its passage thro' the worm.





from page 106 on;
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21252/21 ... 1252-h.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Odin]

Interesting. So it is pretty much hops & juniper as herbs. I cannot place the lime and isenglass. Don't know what they are in Dutch, so I will have to look that up.

What I like in it is the "rye whiskey" point of view. Originally Dutch gin is pretty much a (light to medium bodied) whiskey distilled again. The whiskey is called "moutwijn" and can be done from all rye.

Odin.

[mensdomain]

Finally will be doin this next weekend took me long enough to get my act together.

[Odin]

Did you find the herbs, Mensdomain?

[blind drunk]

9 grams of coriander (the seeds, not the leaves!)

With the seeds removed from the husk or do you include the husks? Also, is the mango peel dry or fresh? Thanks.

[Odin]

Seeds without husks. Cracked. Or even better: grinded to a fine meal. In that case 7 g per liter is sufficient. In my gins I use dried skins. Scrape off outside skin. Don't transfer inside white. I dry it in small pieces in my fridge for a week. You could use fresh skin, but they give of more taste. I find they give a very floral gin, in which fruit can even dominate juniper. "Fruit infused vodka" style, so not the direction I go in. Dried skins you can distill with the herbs. Fresh skins, due to residual fluids inside, can cause harshness and/or too much fruit taste to come over. And the inside white (there is always some left) in undried condition can cause a bitter taste. Fresh skins are better suited for vapour infusion: less (and more constant) taste comes over. Inside white doesn't cause bitterness. So in a distillation "on the herbs" and in this recipe: go for dried skins.

Odin.

[mensdomain]

Did you find the herbs, Mensdomain?

Found everything I needed so all go

[blind drunk]

Thanks Mr. Odin.

[Odin]

Mr. Drunk, "Odin" is actually my first name!



Happy distillings,
Odin.

[Braz]

Mr. Drunk, "Odin" is actually my first name!;)
Odin.

Odin is being modest. He is in fact a Norse god.

From wikipedia:
Odin (play /ˈoʊdɨn/; from Old Norse Óðinn) is a major god in Norse mythology and the ruler of Asgard.[1] Homologous with the Old English "Wōden" and the Old High German "Wôdan",[2] the name is descended from Proto-Germanic "*Wodanaz" or "*Wōđanaz". "Odin" is generally accepted as the modern English form of the name, although, in some cases, older forms may be used or preferred. His name is related to ōðr, meaning "fury, excitation," besides "mind," or "poetry." His role, like that of many of the Norse gods, is complex. Odin is a principal member of the Æsir (the major group of the Norse pantheon) and is associated with war, battle, victory and death, but also wisdom, magic, poetry, prophecy, and the hunt. Odin has many sons, the most famous of whom is Thor.