Excise Act

[CanadianBacon]

So I been reading the excise act over trying to figure out if its legal to sell stills heads openly, And it seems to only talk about "chemical still". Not sure if a water still head would fall under this. Any opinions?

[Stilldrunk]

I see lots of brew shops in Canada selling still heads, they just say its for water....

[CanadianBacon]

Lol, I just looked and they do sell them, some even have jars in the dispensers. wtf hey.

[CornMealKid]

This from the Ontario Alcohol & Gambling Commission website:

"You may make beer or wine at home as long as it is only for your personal consumption or to be given away free of charge. Homemade (or "u-brew") beer or wine may not be sold or used commercially. Homemade spirits and the use of a still in a person's home are illegal under the Excise Act of Canada."
http://www.agco.on.ca/en/faqs/faqs_alcohol.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The thing with the Excise Act is, it's an Act, not LAW. Same goes for the Liquor Control Act. Based on the OA&GC statement above, it's not illegal to own or sell a still so long as it's not used, and has not been used, to distill alcohol "in a person's home". Furthermore, "homemade spirits and the use of a still in a person's home are illegal" seems to state that while it's "illegal" for me to make liquor in my home, the woods or a field would be just fine... If these people wanna deal in litigious words and paperwork, they sure oughta know how things may be interpreted.

Here's the thing about Canada though; we, like the USA, are occupied by a foreign power that does not respect the Rule of Law. Ever buy a knife from Canadian Tire??? Then have it confiscated by your local corporate policy enforcers??? They say, "It's illegal to have this"... Yet you bought it and paid tax on it at Canadian Tire... Assumingly it had passed through Canadian Border Services... Then they clarify, "it's illegal to have it concealed"... Yet, if they saw it on your belt and it's visible, they'll take it just the same, saying they "felt threatened" or "it's in the interest of public safety".

We are dealing with tyrants here to be honest, so legal and illegal really make no difference anymore... They've abandoned the Rule of Law at this point. It's basically like the old commie days where everything is illegal depending on who you are... Do you think Stephen Harper or Justin Trudeau's kids are threatened with bylaw infractions for having a lemonade stand??? Now go buy your $1.50/L gasoline and watch them start WW3.

-CMK

[Doogie]

Irrelevant - though just an Act - so is the Employment Standards ACT and the Occupational Health and Safety ACT. They dictate penalties and provide a frame work for prosecution.

Sometimes, ACTs are horrible - they have quasi-judicial boards that determine penalties - look at the Ontario Ministry of Labour - they can wack all sorts of fees and even imprisionment without judicial review. At least with actual laws (like murder) they are determined by judges. And remember that ACTs can be enforced by either these lackies and/or judges.

Problem will be if a quasi-judicial system (LCBO for example) has mechanisms to levy against home distillers. Either way, the police have the power to enforce the Act - and can.

You are right the Exise Act is full of holes - I believe it does not specify penalties for possession of a still, only sale of illegal hooch. Dunno - not a lawyer, but it seems a little holey ...

At the end of the day, standard rules - DDSS (dont do stupid shit) and keep yer head low. Even if you hate the law and the rules, they can be enforced.

[CanadianBacon]

My thought was to build and sell stills as water stills, I'm going to try to find out who to contact to build "water stills" and try to sell them labeled as that. I cant find any regulations for water stills.

[HDNB]

copy and paste from the act :


60. (1) No person shall, except in accordance with a spirits licence issued to the person, produce or package spirits.

Marginal note:Exception

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to
(a) the packaging of spirits from a marked special container by a purchaser at a bottle-your-own premises; or
(b) the production of spirits for the purpose or as a consequence of the analysis of the composition of a substance containing absolute ethyl alcohol.

214. Every person who contravenes any of sections 25, 25.2 to 25.4, 27 and 29, subsection 32.1(1) and sections 60 and 62 is guilty of an offence and liable
(a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine of not less than $50,000 and not more than $1,000,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years, or to both; or
(b) on summary conviction, to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $500,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months, or to both.


61. No person shall possess a still or other equipment suitable for the production of spirits with the intent of producing spirits unless the person
(a) is a spirits licensee;
(b) has a pending application for a spirits licence; or
(c) possesses the still or equipment solely for the purpose of producing spirits for the purpose or as a consequence of the analysis of the composition of a substance containing absolute ethyl alcohol.

234. (1) Every person who contravenes section 38, 40, 49, 61, 62.1, 99, 149 or 151 is liable to a penalty of not more than $25,000.



your only hope of defense is: (exception) possesses the still or equipment solely for the purpose of producing spirits for the purpose or as a consequence of the analysis of the composition of a substance containing absolute ethyl alcohol.


each province has it's own laws to deal with possession and transportation, in addition to manufacture.

[CanadianBacon]

that doesn't really mention anything about water stills tho.

[bellybuster]

that doesn't really mention anything about water stills tho.

They don't make that distinction, that would be too easy an out.
There are a ton of grey areas in the act. That's why there has never been a hobbyist bust. You're not talking hobby though.
Why not be legit? Get the proper business registration etc, let the gov't themselves be your scapegoat. Be all out honest in your business description.

On that note, with the DIY nature of most Canadians I'd doubt there'd be much money in it. You wouldn't be able to sell across the border.

[CanadianBacon]

that doesn't really mention anything about water stills tho.

They don't make that distinction, that would be too easy an out.

Either way I am looking into who to contact so I get permits to build water distillers if its possible or atlest regulations on water distillers if it is legal. If not I will just move on. I figure building even 20 litter or 15 gallon "water distillers" would sell well considering the price of 3 litter ones.

I haven't seen anyone in Canada selling them over 3-5L so I would imagine this is not possible to do. We shall see.

[hellbilly007]

In the US the regulation on water distillers is they can not have a boiler larger than 1 US gallon. I know that doesn't help you CB, but I'd imagine there may be a regulation on water distillers since you've only seen 3-5L units available for sale.

Come to think of it, I've seen water distillers larger than 1 gallon here in the States. Hmmm.

[HDNB]

you are reading too much into this. the government will happily take your tax money. make sure you keep records and damn good ones at that. (money not people) there is no law against selling bits o' copper, loose or assembled. the distinction here is:

"No person shall possess a still or other equipment suitable for the production of spirits with the intent of producing spirits unless the person."

keyword: INTENT. do not have any booze, mash or makin's anywhere near your copper, and they cannot prove your "intent"...what your customers choose to do with their copper is their business. otherwise every home depot would be shut down and every plumber a criminal. (don't go there- lots of trades charge a long buck)

Ian SMiley has been importing and reselling quite openly for years...and is still in the land of the "free" and over taxed.

and don't take this the wrong way...if this intimidates you, entreprenuership is a constant scary battle. like LWTCS sez: Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

[Doogie]

You can call it whatever you want - water still, essential oil still, likker still. The Excise Act only states "still or other equipment suitable for the production of spirits with the intent of producing spirits"

If you want, you can call it whatever you want, but it is a still, and I bet if they catch you with the still and then catch you with likker, then analyze the still for residue that you would be screwed.

There is a place in Brampton that sells them:
http://homebrewsupplies.ca/product/3172 ... -purifier/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Even states "The Super Express Purifier not only produces distillate at a very fast rate, it can also produce distillate at over 90% ABV!"

I dont think selling them is the issue - you can posses a still, just cannot use it for likker making. I am sure you can even boast about how your still can make likker ... but do not get caught using it for likker. As long as you 1) have not used the units to make likker and 2) do not intend to use them to make likker, than you would be fine.

Make sure any cleaning runs are with vinegar only or something that will not produce likker. Remove all intent to produce, you should be fine.

However, I dunno about claiming it can make likker ... maybe you can - just put in "check your local, provincial/state, and country laws prior to starting to make likker" kind of disclaimer.