Aussie government vid.

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googe
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Aussie government vid.

Post by googe »

Kiwikeg brought this vid to my attention, thought id share. Really surprised me to see a video from the guberment about it here!, its a generally quiet subject in aus. https://youtu.be/gDh9IAQGfEs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

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Interesting seeing as it's none of the ATO's frigging business nor covered by any of their or customs act until a sale has been made or intended. Can imagine the AFP coming up with tripe like this but the ATO must be suspecting shine sales are on the up and up to waste money on this horse shit , worring development all the same :thumbdown:
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Danespirit
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Danespirit »

"Potential DEADLY..!"....?? :crazy: :wtf:

See they are also crazy on your side of the planet.
Our government doesn't use those scare tactics to intimidate people.
But it's still illegal here too. It's illegal even to be in possesion of any parts that could be used for distilling.
One can make all the beer and wine you can have room for, but you can't distill one single drop out of it.
Don't know the actual punishment for it (cause i never have been caught 8) ).
Anyway...it would surely not result in two years of prison and/or 85000 $ in fine.. :shock:
Think one would get away with a little fine about 2000 Dkr, that's roughly 400 AUS $.
Case would be different if you were caught selling your stuff either likker or a still.
In this case you would "enjoy" the hospitality of a open prison in a month or two.
The worst would be they take your rig, as it has been used in a criminal act.
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

Holy shit thats scary!!! I never thought that the fines were that huge! Do people think this might be the start of a crack down? I'd never sell any, only share with close friends and with family and I'm reasonably tight lipped about it. But $85,000 is just crazy!! Is that like a maximum amount or is that standard? i.e Your caught red-handed making booze with a 50L keg boiler for personal use, you plead guilty, therefor you are fined $85,000?
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

Well as there has never been a case that we know of of anyone being charged for making spirit for themselves this might be the max for everything including sales. Google Australian laws and you will see where the various acts are and see only the sales side of it is covered by the ATO so yeah this campaign is confusing
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

I know cases of people being arrested for making spirits at home are few and far between in the news. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but how do we know there aren't people out there being charged for making spirits that just don't get media coverage? The ATO scare campaign is CLEARLY targeting people making spirits at home for personal use.
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

Well you could google.it. but when some one does get done like the night club at club 94 its the biggest nation wide news for a month. The media are ridiculous on this and I'm sure would love to draw and quarter any home stiller they can but it just doesn't happen. You can buy a still at any HBS or most deports and Emporiums and many dozens of places on line. I can't say it couldn't happen and you have to do your own risk assessment :thumbup:
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

Yeah you're probably right, if the media got wind of it they would be all over it. Does anyone know what ended up happening with that old codger from WA who was expected to be prosecuted for the "sale and supply of liquor and its manufacture"? It basically gives no details, or why they suspected him of supply. The article also states "Police said inquiries were still underway to see if he had breached any federal offence"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/m ... se/6256280
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

No but if they prove he was you can bet the ATO will be on his arse, that's what they mean by federal laws. Meanwhile primary school kids are buying meth in the playground :roll: :evil:
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

Yeah, selling or supplying is just stupid, I hope for his sake and the hobby that he wasn't. I read someplace else that if you got busted growing pot (which I reckon should be decriminalised, but at the moment still an illegal substance) for personal use and it was under 10 plants you could expect a fine of $2700! If you got busted with a keg boiler and a some copper tube you're up for $8500, if you make a legal product with it your up for $85000! That is really just mental.
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

I got a horrible feeling things are about to change for the worse in Oz, we have been pretty much left alone for the last hundred years but it looks like they are planing to drag us back to the 1800s
This is a letter received by Malthouse Brewing Supplies
(might have to make a warning announcement if this crap keeps up)
Manufacture and Sale of stills and distillation equipment
Hi
We are writing to you as you may be manufacturing or selling stills and distillation equipment.
You have certain responsibilities if you are manufacturing or selling this type of equipment. The Australian Taxation Office is here to help you meet your obligations.
You can sell a still that has a capacity of 5 litres or less without our permission.
If the capacity of a still is over 5 litres you need our permission to:
Manufacture the still
Move or set up the still
Buy or sell the still
Import the still
Have possession, custody or control of the still.
You could face penalties of up to $8,500 or more if you sell, manufacture, store or possess stills or distilling equipment which has a capacity of five litres or more without permission. If you do not have permission to manufacture and sell stills you should contact us to apply for permission or arrange disposal of the distillation equipment.
It is illegal for your customers to distil alcohol without an excise manufacturer licence. Your customers can find further information about the law surrounding distilling spirits at ato.gov.au/business/excise-and-excise-equivalent-goods/stills-and-distilling-alcohol/
For further information
You can contact us for permission or further information by:
phoning 1300 137 290 and selecting option 1 between 8.00am and 6.00pm, Monday to Friday
emailingalcohol@ato.gov.au
visiting ato.gov.au and searching for QC 18495
Regards
James O’Halloran
Deputy Commissioner of Taxation
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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bearriver
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by bearriver »

The fines are a small fraction of that in my state. I'd probably reconsider what I was doing if $85,000 was on the line, let alone 2 years of my life. Yikes. Excessive much?
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Dan P. »

Silly situation, same as we have in the UK, where distillation is just randomly classified as a crime (though not ownership of a still) seemingly as an auxilliary law to the various tax laws concerning alcohol production. Obviously if you are not selling, it's none of their fucking business, except that it is. Wankers.
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

thecroweater wrote:I got a horrible feeling things are about to change for the worse in Oz, we have been pretty much left alone for the last hundred years but it looks like they are planing to drag us back to the 1800s
This is a letter received by Malthouse Brewing Supplies
(might have to make a warning announcement if this crap keeps up)
Manufacture and Sale of stills and distillation equipment
Hi
We are writing to you as you may be manufacturing or selling stills and distillation equipment.
You have certain responsibilities if you are manufacturing or selling this type of equipment. The Australian Taxation Office is here to help you meet your obligations.
You can sell a still that has a capacity of 5 litres or less without our permission.
If the capacity of a still is over 5 litres you need our permission to:
Manufacture the still
Move or set up the still
Buy or sell the still
Import the still
Have possession, custody or control of the still.
You could face penalties of up to $8,500 or more if you sell, manufacture, store or possess stills or distilling equipment which has a capacity of five litres or more without permission. If you do not have permission to manufacture and sell stills you should contact us to apply for permission or arrange disposal of the distillation equipment.
It is illegal for your customers to distil alcohol without an excise manufacturer licence. Your customers can find further information about the law surrounding distilling spirits at ato.gov.au/business/excise-and-excise-equivalent-goods/stills-and-distilling-alcohol/
For further information
You can contact us for permission or further information by:
phoning 1300 137 290 and selecting option 1 between 8.00am and 6.00pm, Monday to Friday
emailingalcohol@ato.gov.au
visiting ato.gov.au and searching for QC 18495
Regards
James O’Halloran
Deputy Commissioner of Taxation
Damn! The brew store around the corner form me has also removed all their still equipment from the shelves. Wondering if these letter are going out to brew stores across Australia? Although they still have some ornate tiny pot stills in the shop window, turbo yeast and related products in the fridge and a bunch of flavourings on the shelves. But guessing they've returned their airstills and pure spirit gear, are hiding it out back or have sold their stock and just not ordering any more.

I think all this micro-brewing and all-grain brewing fad has a lot to do with the sudden interest by both people and the ATO into home distilling. I mean with every 2nd hipster brewing a smoked imperial porter in their basement, it really was only a hop, skip and a jump into making their own spirits. And suddenly every 2nd bearded man with a tie and home-made denim pants is sharing their organic, native botanical gin at their friends retro-electronica album launch and word quickly gets around. I really do fear a crackdown.

The question I'm wondering is, is there anything we can do about it? I mean do we just keep hiding in our basements, tell non-one, never share our product and hope that a nosey neighbour or disgruntled girlfriend never decides to dob? Or is there some way we can use this sudden interest by people and the ATO to inform people of real situation, that these laws are left-overs from a bi-gone era when govt was controlled by the tobacco and alcohol industries and that we should adapt a similar approach to the laws our sister country NZ has adopted? Do you think and information campaign coupled with maybe a letter/online petition could do anything?
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

I think it is a bit of a scare campaign dreamed up by a couple of pin head bureaucrats trying to justify their unjustifiable position, one James O’Halloran is not the Deputy Commissioner of Taxation that is some sheila and he is some deputy head of some branch (probably that involves alcohol taxation) :roll: . I thing you local HBS dude might be over reacting (what state are you in) as it is in fact quite legal to own and use those stills just not for the purpose of producing alcohol. People can and do use them for extracting botanical oils ect. The laws surrounding alcohol production are quite old and vague and are spread over several acts, I'll locate them and post them here down the track. Most of the law would be quite difficult from my reading to procure a conviction but for sure the is a clear misdemeanour of using a boiler over 5 litres and the more serious charges are covered by the ATO and these relate to selling/trading and tax evasion
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

Yeah, not sure whats going on with the HBS store, they still have them listed on their website :S

Again, do you think there is any point putting pressure local gov to make changes to regulation? Or do you think no-one would be willing to sign the petition or even send anonymous letters for fear they would be targeted?
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thecroweater
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by thecroweater »

can't hurt to talk to your local members and see how they feel about it, there is a movement a foot but i dont know how they are getting on, I can look into it
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Limitedsky
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Re: Aussie government vid.

Post by Limitedsky »

Yeah I'd like to see these draconian laws changed and home use decriminalised or at least some sort of affordable permit, if I can be of assistance I'd like to know how.
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