H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by AB Normal »

fortbuilder825 wrote:That reads to me that you're allowed a maximum of 48 proof gallons if you have two adults. Not 24 per adult, but if there's three adults it's still 48 proof gallons.
Which is a fair amount.
Doing the math, I'd be happy with that. 2 gallons/month in my case should suffice until the holiday season & family arrive. I definitely don't produce or drink anything near 100 gallons in a year but it's something for the liver to aspire to.

Brewhaus - thanks for all your work with this. No intention of stepping on your toes, particularly if you're pushing forward with the same text. I'm only wondering what thoughts the community has on the matter.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by rad14701 »

fortbuilder825 wrote:That reads to me that you're allowed a maximum of 48 proof gallons if you have two adults. Not 24 per adult, but if there's three adults it's still 48 proof gallons.
Which is a fair amount.
First, turn off your Tapatalk advertisement in the App... Advertising is frowned upon here and that's what that blub is...

Back when the movement first started towards legalization our self-imposed boiler limit was 15.5 gallons... That should be plenty but for some reason it got bumped to 25 and now 30 gallons - most likely due to folks building excessively large flutes that require larger boiler charges to be efficient...

I wrote something up years ago regarding hobby scale production limits but it was in the backend of the forums, out of public view, and I never got it finished and posted publicly... It, essentially, put a slant more towards us being hobby distillers rather than all-out drunks... You have to take average public perception into account and saying you're stocking up for aging purposes doesn't compute in the minds of those with little or no understanding of the craft - and you can't teach them what they don't want to learn...

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rick Martin »

rad14701 wrote: I wrote something up years ago regarding hobby scale production limits but it was in the backend of the forums, out of public view, and I never got it finished and posted publicly... It, essentially, put a slant more towards us being hobby distillers rather than all-out drunks... You have to take average public perception into account and saying you're stocking up for aging purposes doesn't compute in the minds of those with little or no understanding of the craft - and you can't teach them what they don't want to learn...

Posted with AB Normal...
You are right, you can't teach people who don't want to learn. Most people think they know everything. I agree about the drunks part we have enough negative myths and fairy tails about the craft. If I remember right back when my dad applied for his wine making permit it had a limit of 400 gal a year. That would translate roughly into 40gal spirit if the wine was distilled.

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by AB Normal »

rad14701 wrote:
fortbuilder825 wrote:That reads to me that you're allowed a maximum of 48 proof gallons if you have two adults. Not 24 per adult, but if there's three adults it's still 48 proof gallons.
Which is a fair amount.
...You have to take average public perception into account and saying you're stocking up for aging purposes doesn't compute in the minds of those with little or no understanding of the craft - and you can't teach them what they don't want to learn...

Posted with AB Normal...
When the topic comes up around here it's apparent that people have already learned everything on the topic. Unfortunately, like the topic of brewing beer, it's invariably way off the mark and in this case way more sinister. It's so much harder to get someone to unlearn something than to have them learn it correctly the first time.

But you raise a good point, in some states the local citizenry might be more vocal on the matter than we anticipate.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by fortbuilder825 »

rad14701 wrote:
fortbuilder825 wrote:That reads to me that you're allowed a maximum of 48 proof gallons if you have two adults. Not 24 per adult, but if there's three adults it's still 48 proof gallons.
Which is a fair amount.
First, turn off your Tapatalk advertisement in the App... Advertising is frowned upon here and that's what that blub is...

Back when the movement first started towards legalization our self-imposed boiler limit was 15.5 gallons... That should be plenty but for some reason it got bumped to 25 and now 30 gallons - most likely due to folks building excessively large flutes that require larger boiler charges to be efficient...

I wrote something up years ago regarding hobby scale production limits but it was in the backend of the forums, out of public view, and I never got it finished and posted publicly... It, essentially, put a slant more towards us being hobby distillers rather than all-out drunks... You have to take average public perception into account and saying you're stocking up for aging purposes doesn't compute in the minds of those with little or no understanding of the craft - and you can't teach them what they don't want to learn...

Posted with AB Normal...
Very sorry! I think I have that fixed with the signature from my computer now.

I am sorry, 'twas done in ignorance.

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by fortbuilder825 »

For the record, my boiler is 15.5 gal, I'm happy with it for several reasons - it's a stainless keg, it's fits on my brewstands since I use keg kettles from homebrew, I already had it, and I'm a cheapskate.

Support the HDA - working to make Home Distilling legal.
https://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org/

Donate by becoming a member or give to the cause here:
https://www.gofundme.com/federally-lega ... distilling
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by FullySilenced »

Soooo 46 proof gallons cut to 40 abv will give you 115 gallons or about 1.1 gallons a week per adult in a 2 adult habitat... little over 20 oz a day... per adult..

happy stillin,

FS
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Jimbo »

FullySilenced wrote:Soooo 46 proof gallons cut to 40 abv will give you 115 gallons or about 1.1 gallons a week per adult in a 2 adult habitat... little over 20 oz a day... per adult..

happy stillin,

FS
damn! thats not gonna cut it.... :wtf: :lol: Kidding.

Anyway, a proof gallon is 50%, 100 proof. So we only get 2.5 fifths a week, per person. :wave:
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Brewhaus »

Scott Wallace, a representative in NH, contacted us today. He has introduced a bill to legalize hobby distilling in NH. For those of you from NH, please reach out to him to thank him.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_st ... &v=current" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

For all others- we need to get this in front of our own state legislators to urge them to do the same, and also get this around the Hill, so please contact your federal Senators and Representative, letting them know that another state is making the move to remove prohibition on hobby distilling, and to bring parity to the related hobbies. It is senseless to continue the prohibition on distilling when beer and wine making at home have been legal for literally decades.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by masonsjax »

And don't forget marijuana legalization. They're not even pretending it's only for medical use anymore. Legalizing spirits seems far less controversial than legalizing marijuana, which has been attacked in all out war for decades. How did the politicians unlearn all the "facts" about the harms of that plant? Bizarro world.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rick Martin »

Does anyone have a good marijuana mash recipe. Just want to join 2 idiotic crimes together.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

FullySilenced wrote: little over 20 oz a day... per adult..
animal-house-john-beluci.jpg
I'm assuming they will enforce the production limit the same way then have enforced the beer/wine limits.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Lamannamal »

Sent ab normal's letter with the appropriate changes to both senators in the state of PA
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by TxBrewing »

Brewhaus wrote:Scott Wallace, a representative in NH, contacted us today. He has introduced a bill to legalize hobby distilling in NH. For those of you from NH, please reach out to him to thank him.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_st ... &v=current" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

For all others- we need to get this in front of our own state legislators to urge them to do the same, and also get this around the Hill, so please contact your federal Senators and Representative, letting them know that another state is making the move to remove prohibition on hobby distilling, and to bring parity to the related hobbies. It is senseless to continue the prohibition on distilling when beer and wine making at home have been legal for literally decades.
This is more good news.
Time to email all 4 of my Reps again.

Maybe my congressmen as well

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by rad14701 »

Rick Martin wrote:Does anyone have a good marijuana mash recipe. Just want to join 2 idiotic crimes together.
Don't go there... :shh: It's violates Rule #6 of The Rules We Live By... :problem: It's still illegal at the federal level and in most states... :evil:
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rain Distillate »

Just curious,
You guys signing your real names? Is anyone else paranoid they'll be "looked into" because of their displayed intrests with the hobby. I can't imagine too many people making likker in my state (maine) so say for instance only 20-30 letters were written/emails sent to senators etc. That's a fairly small list for the politicians to hand off to a LEO's to investigate. I wanna do my part but I got kids to think of too. Just wondering if there's a lot of "John Smith's" writing to their respected reps or not.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

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When I sent my emails, the senators site said your information would not be shared.... guess I trusted that, hope I was right haha
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Lamannamal »

And the emails don't say that we are currently involved in any illegal activity, just asking to get the current laws changed so we can start a hobby without it being illegal. Even if they did hand those letters over to law enforcement there wouldn't be even close to enough info on there for them to get a search warrant.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rain Distillate »

Lamannamal wrote:And the emails don't say that we are currently involved in any illegal activity, just asking to get the current laws changed so we can start a hobby without it being illegal. Even if they did hand those letters over to law enforcement there wouldn't be even close to enough info on there for them to get a search warrant.
They ain't need a search warrant to watch and wait til your doing something illegal like say distilling. That's all I'm saying. I just don't want no one watching me. That's my concern.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Brewhaus »

rain distillate wrote:Just curious,
You guys signing your real names? Is anyone else paranoid they'll be "looked into" because of their displayed intrests with the hobby. I can't imagine too many people making likker in my state (maine) so say for instance only 20-30 letters were written/emails sent to senators etc. That's a fairly small list for the politicians to hand off to a LEO's to investigate. I wanna do my part but I got kids to think of too. Just wondering if there's a lot of "John Smith's" writing to their respected reps or not.
Keep in mind that we (the HDA) have many non-distiller members. I know several personally. They are home brewers that are interested in expanding their hobby, but they have not done so out of fear. They support the cause, but that does not mean that they are breaking the existing law. :D
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rick Martin »

Well since NH is starting to legalize I thought I would try to get my backward state moving. So with another state level rewrite of the letter I sent it to both of my state level reps. Here it is if you want to use it.

Dear (Senator or reps name)

As a Pennsylvanian I am proud to call you my senator. Last legislative session there was a bill I followed with great interest, SB 1562 (114th Congress). I was very encouraged by the number of co-sponsors this bill had, showing broad bipartisan support. Unfortunately this bill – which would have made legal the small-scale home craft distillation of alcohol - never made it out of committee.

Currently, it is legal to make our own wine and to make our own beer. We can possess products with alcohol, and we can possess distilled alcohol. However, the process of taking the legal alcohol out of the legal wine or beer is forbidden to us under Federal and State law, in a holdover of prohibition-era regulation. Please note that the State of Missouri has taken great strides to eliminate these archaic laws at the state level. New Hampshire is also starting the same process.

The provisions of previous bill 1562 retained prohibitions against the sale of unlicensed home-crafted beverages, similar to laws concerning home brewing and winemaking. Those of us with similar interests believe this remains a common-sense approach, as would a limit to the amount of product based on the number of household adults. Missouri statute concerning this topic is often cited as model legislation.

I thank you for your time and attention to this matter. Please help to not only reduce needless regulation but to also allow home distillation to do for Pennsylvania's economy what home winemaking and home brewing has.

Sincerely,


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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by LWTCS »

Brewhaus wrote:Scott Wallace, a representative in NH, contacted us today. He has introduced a bill to legalize hobby distilling in NH. For those of you from NH, please reach out to him to thank him.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_st ... &v=current" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

For all others- we need to get this in front of our own state legislators to urge them to do the same, and also get this around the Hill, so please contact your federal Senators and Representative, letting them know that another state is making the move to remove prohibition on hobby distilling, and to bring parity to the related hobbies. It is senseless to continue the prohibition on distilling when beer and wine making at home have been legal for literally decades.
Good news indeed.
NH is a slightly different animal as they do not currently levy a state tax against distilled spirits. So they really have nothing to loose.
NH a really good starting place to create some movement.
If they can at some point demonstrate that sales tax for alcohol has increased within the state after they pass hobby distilling, then there would be no question that hobby distilling like hobby brewing is directly responsible for economic growth,,,,is what I'm thinking....
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Hank Reardon »

rad14701 wrote:It's still illegal at the federal level

evil:

Which makes it illegal in all states. Just to be very slightly more clear than Rad.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Lamannamal »

Just like how marijuana is illegal at the federal lever, but legal for recreational use in 8 states. Feds can come in whenever they want and arrest whoever they want... you saw that a lot in California when they started their medicinal program... not so much anymore
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Brewhaus »

Thank you, fortbuilder, for allowing the HDA to use your letter as an option for our members to copy and send to their representatives. In order to offer some options, we have posted three other letters on the HDA downloads page at http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.o ... /downloads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. One option is a rather strong letter, written by our lobbyist. A copy of that letter is also below.
Your Name
Your Address
Date
Dear _________,
I am a constituent with a sincere interest in home-based, hobbyist distillation of spirits. I’m not talking “moonshining,” or making spirits illegally for resale. I wish to distill small amounts of spirits strictly for my own personal consumption and enjoyment. Unfortunately, I am not currently able to do this because of Prohibition-era laws.
Americans are free to brew their own beer, make their own wine, and in many jurisdictions, grow their own marijuana(!). Distill your own whiskey or vodka? No way! It’s against the Internal Revenue Code.
This situation is a ludicrous as it is fundamentally unfair.
In the last Congress, the Craft Beverage Excise Tax Modernization Act (S. 1562 [Wyden, Or] and H.R. 2903 [Paulsen, Mn]) included provisions legalizing very small batch production of spirits for personal use and consumption. Unfortunately, the 114th Congress timed out before passage.
This year, this legislation has been reintroduced (S.236/H.R.747 – same sponsors), with the hobby distilling provisions stripped out.
From conversations with individuals knowledgeable about this process, I understand that this was done at the behest of established distilling interests, ostensibly due to concerns over “safety”. One should not be fooled, however. Commercial distillers oppose this purely to maintain their competitive advantage. The same thing happened when at-home beer and wine production were legalized. Industry fought it tooth and nail, only to find in retrospect that opening the market to new participants grew the whole pie, benefitting established producers handsomely.
Here, they seem to have forgotten this simple lesson.
And if safety were such a concern, then New Zealand – which legalized hobby distilling decades ago – would have suffered the consequences. In fact, there have not been fires, explosions, deaths or other accidents since legalization. The Emperor has no clothes.
I suppose it’s heartening that the distilling industry has my best interests at heart, saving me from myself, exercising their disinterested, kind altruism. What would I do without their protection? And if that just happens to maintain their relative monopoly, well, who could have predicted that?
This issue is plain and simple. At-home, hobbyist distillers seek parity under the law – the same treatment as everyone else in our sector. I am asking that you please support amending the current legislation to include the relevant provisions from last year’s bill.
As always, I greatly appreciate your time and consideration, and I ask the favor of a reply addressing my request.
Sincerely,
Your name
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by fortbuilder825 »

Thank you for all your work Brewhaus!
I just sent off three copies of that stronger letter.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Brewhaus »

We are also reaching out to everyone that we know in the media, hoping to get more attention on this. That would potentially help in two ways:

1- Get more people behind our cause, and make it more difficult to keep pushing our cause into the future.
2- Get more funding, which is desperately needed so that we can keep up this fight.

While we have made tremendous headway over the past few years, getting onto a bill and garnering support from many on the Hill and within branches of government, that does not help us today. We need to get back onto a bill, but this time have that bill pass!

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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Rick Martin »

fortbuilder825 wrote:Thank you for all your work Brewhaus!
I just sent off three copies of that stronger letter.
+1
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by masonsjax »

Maybe the lobbyist can meet with Trump, get him to sign an executive order. Wouldn't be the weirdest thing he signed this month.
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Re: H.R. 2903 is up to 83 co-sponsors...

Post by Brewhaus »

I'd laugh if I hadn't already thought of that myself. :P
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