Generator that runs on ethanol.

Alcohol is an inexpensive, clean and renewable fuel source.

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Ayay
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Ayay »

nb0s wrote:... Almost energy for nothing!!!
No :D , we have to grow the cane, harvest it, extract the sugar, ferment it, and distill it. Drinking premo hooch is worth all of this alone. Burning the waste products is definately free energy after getting the premo!! (If your energy comes from the sun then you already paid for it with carbon tax).

I think a cast iron Villiers 2-stroke is the most elegant IC engine. Most parts can be made in a home workshop. The carburettor had 2 moving parts, (slide/needle, and float); the engine 3, (piston/conrod/crankshaft). Spark is provided by stationary coils and a magnet in the moving cankshaft. There was no top-end.

'Old' wippersnipper engines are tuppence-a-dozen and most of them died when the carburettor died. All we need is a small Villiers style carburettor that fits the wippersnipper.
cornflakes...stripped and refluxed
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

If I may add my 2 cents;
My kids junior dragster runs on alcohol (methyl hydrate actually) and I build the engines. (and have EXTENSIVE race engine building under my belt)

1) alcohol runs cooler, most of the time you have to lean it way out to get it hot enough to make a pass if your running a liquid cooled engine. Air cooled is fine and we run with NO COOLING AT ALL. The fan/shroud/fins are removed as they are not neccesary.

2) You have to jet up a lot. About twice the fuel to air as gas (6:1 is about right for alcohol) Run it rich and you lose power and run cold but more importantly it dilutes the oil in the crankcase. (I change the oil every race day, about a dozen passes)
In the junior is a 5hp briggs, I fill it with 8oz of oil and drain about 12oz of milk after a dozen passes. Total run time is about 3-4 minutes per pass (driving back to the pit after the run etc) so about 1/2 hr or 45 mins of run time.

3) The 5hp briggs is fully modified and turns 9-11,000rpm. the only stock parts are the crank and block. Yes on a v8 you bump the compression to take advantage of the higher octane but high compression on a flathead kills airflow and power. The briggs is 7:1 comp. I run 50 degrees ign advance. The cam has a lot of overlap and duration (260@.050) which bleeds cyl pressure and allows more ign advance. Stock cam, you run about 36degrees.

4) I run it for the weekend and then drain the carb and fill it with wd-40. If it sits more than a few days the alcohol dries up and plugs the carb with white flakes. Yes, this is a fuel system set up to run on alcohol. Even full size cars running alcohol drain and wd-40 the fuel system if the car is going to sit for more than a few days. I've tried other lubes but wd-40 works the best. I turned on the fuel and rolled the motor over until the carb was filled and the motor fired..took it to the line and it quit on the hit. Took twice before I figured out that the routine is, get to the track and pull the carb, pull the bowl off and wash with brake clean,(there still can be a bit of flaky crap in there or white powder) reassemble then roll it over and fill carb.

5) Starting..I use a starter off a 50hp outboard modified to fit the 3/4" nut on the crank. You would NEVER, EVER, EVER start it by pulling it over!! It spins about 6-800rpm for about 2 seconds before it fires and runs on it's own. Splash some gas in it like dragsters do to fire then let the alcohol take over when it's running perhaps, but even a v8 won't start without gas priming.

Lets see if I can add some pic's....

This is me cleaning the carb, the aluminum box with the battery in it is the starter. Notice too the flywheel on the engine has no cooling fins and the lack of shroud. That is the slower engine with the modified stock head. (head still has fins)

Here's a better picture of the starter

Here WAS the fast engine..notice the billet head and billet side cover, it's been changed to a full roller bearing crank instead of bushings. Also note the chunk out of the belt and the missing chain/bent sprocket...

This is what happens when the chain comes off at half track and the engine goes to 12,200rpm according to the data recorder...notice the missing piston? $150.00 wiseco forged piston turned to fine pieces of gravel and bent the oversized valves, broke the block...there is the 28mm mikuni carb up top too.

I found the piston!! (and the busted billet cam..)


But.....this is what it's all about..kids happy, ain't nothing money can't fix right? LOL
Image
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

crap...let me try the other pictures again
Image
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

Image



Here's one of two engines
Image
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

Here's another alcohol engine....a bit bigger hehe
Image



The starter, notice the welded on 1/2" drive extension with 3/4" socket
Image
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

Hey look....that's whats left of about $600 of aluminum in that bucket...
Image
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
bluejay
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by bluejay »

single cylinder engine,,you can run 5 amps of HHO and get a smooth run..It will cause the ignition to be hotter and make what little water in the alc to not matter..
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by kamilavalamp »

This is supposed to work with any engine

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... drane.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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goinbroke2
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by goinbroke2 »

kamilavalamp wrote:This is supposed to work with any engine

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... drane.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Guys, again, this is not some "look what I found" thing...go to ANY DRAGSTRIP IN THE COUNTRY and you can see an alcohol burning car. Not some dragster just for the track, but bracket racing cars, door slammers too because alcohol is much more consistent (isn't effected by the weather as much) A 69 mustang with a 351 might vary a tenth every pass, switch it to alcohol and suddenly the car is running a string of passes varying only a couple thou at most. It's not new!

Here is the problem (spoken as one who has run alcohol cars before and now has a kid running a dragster on it) On the track it's great, on the street, not so much. A barrel of alcohol will cost around $250.00, that's for 45 gallons. ($5.50 a gallon) The milage on your car is cut in at least half running alcohol so you might as well say it's $10-11.00 a gallon. This is fine for a racecar cause vp-12 is around $12.00 a gallon and alcohol is more consistent...but a street car?? Gas is $1.08 per litre which is $4.90 a gallon of regular...you'd rather spend $11.00 a gallon?

Or you can make it yourself for a couple dollars a gallon, $2.00 x 2 (because of the less milage) and your talking $4.00 a gallon..and you spend every waking minute cleaning/fermenting/distilling enough fuel to go to the store to by a loaf of bread?

You guys can do what you want but after running alcohol and knowing the cleaning procedures you MUST do if the car sits more than a day or two, there is no way in hell I would have a daily driver run on alcohol.
The genny? That's easy, go here and buy an alcohol carb for your genny and replace the fuel lines with the fuel lines they offer and your done. It'll be a bitch to start by pulling unless you splash some gas in it and it will need to be cleaned every time your done using it..and you'll have to keep an eye on the oil, replacing more often..but yeah, it's dirt simple to do.

Alcohol carb $107.00 Can http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Fuel line
http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=1783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by badflash »

Brazil converted to all ethanol a while back before coming back to gasoline. They still have a lot of e-100 there. I'm wondering if you couldn't import an ethanol ready engine from there.

All flex fuel engines can run on E-100, so they should be able to run on 160 proof in the summer. In Alcohol Can Be A Gas they talk about this.

Supposedly you can dry alcohol with ground corn instead of zeolite.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by drmiller100 »

There is methanol amd there is ethanol. Methanol is what the vast majority of racers use and it is nasty stuff. It eats aluminum.

Ethanol is much more benign. The vast majority of us have been running it 10 percent for the past 30 years or so.

To run pure ethanol you have to run 20 percent richer. The easiest way is to leave the choke on a little bit. If you leave the choke on too much it will run fine but can create carbon monoxide which can kill you..

Pure ethanol won't start below about 30 degrees and the carb will ice up if you don't help it have heat.

You can run 190 proof with the water in it. There are old wives tales 95 percent with some random mixture of gasoline and supposedly the water will settle out. This is false above freezing Temps amd even then there has to be a LOT of water, much more than 5 percent.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
Corerftech
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Corerftech »

A comment on flex-fuel vehicles (at least in the US).
Ford and GM flex fuel sensors (and I’ll stretch to say All in this is case) have serious faults when water is present in the sensor. And Hydrous has just that, lots of water, compared to E10/E85.

Just an efi system on Hydrous, no problem. Flex fuel- serious problem. Flex fuel cars don’t like water. Standard eFi, with tuning, no issues.

Has anyone found a good top oil additive they prefer to use?
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by drmiller100 »

Corerftech wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:31 am A comment on flex-fuel vehicles (at least in the US).
Ford and GM flex fuel sensors (and I’ll stretch to say All in this is case) have serious faults when water is present in the sensor. And Hydrous has just that, lots of water, compared to E10/E85.

Just an efi system on Hydrous, no problem. Flex fuel- serious problem. Flex fuel cars don’t like water. Standard eFi, with tuning, no issues.

Has anyone found a good top oil additive they prefer to use?
Source? I've never heard this before.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
Corerftech
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Corerftech »

A few sundry sources on how FFV sensors work and why water is an issue especially at 90/10W% hydrous content.

https://bartuneengineering.wordpress.co ... el-sensor/
https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewco ... =auto_pres

water is alcohol and alcohol is water to FFV sensors. Typical hydrous will be 5-10% water that isnt combustable and doesnt factor into the AFR tables. Plus FFV's dont use Wideband O2 sensors so tables are set for 1 lambda. That 5-10% deviation in fuel density cant be translated electrically (albeit there has been work on "water" detection sensors in fuel systems to feed data the FMS) to the FMS/ECU and will be seen as a highly oxygenated fuel relative to the VE and fuel maps. FFV sensor says there is more oxygen (oxygen enriched ethanol) so enrich the mixture to maintain AFR. As well AFR tables may dynamically shift. FFV can go from a target 13:1 with gas to 8 or 9:1 with alcohol. Overfueling occurs in an attempt to compensate for less GAS/more Ethanol (liquid air enriched). Timing gets advanced as well when the EtOH value increases on FFV sensors. FFV stratagies are complicated and water is a factor ASTM doesnt allow and therefore isnt compensated by manufacturers in strategies. Ford and GM build around certified ASTM fuels, not your home brew hydrous. Bottom line, CAR NO RUN RIGHT!

Dont get me wrong, the water is awesome for timing, quench, cooling.... its a magic pill. But a sensor trying to ignore it but acting on it is a problem. 15% agua is my target for the test engines. That should reduce cost dramatically for production and I can just add MORE FUEL to get more POWER becasue I have forced induction and excess air available. Liquid intercooling with 15%.

Now without a FFV sensor to override an FMS/ECU fuel and AFR table, it simply rolls along not caring or adjusting fueling, sans MAP/MAF, TB position, rpm,O2 etc. It doesnt know about the fuel and water, its just sees a FUEL and SENDS it till O2 sensor voltage is correct. Doesnt mean it runs well, but it is more than likely NOT going to experience dramatic changes in tuning as you drive. The O2 and MAP sensors will guide the AFR corrections quite nicely as long as FFV sensor doesnt factor in, even with lots and lots of water. I dont want a FFV sensor in anything with hydrous unless a Brazilian designed it.
drmiller100
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by drmiller100 »

Corerftech wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:45 pm A few sundry sources on how FFV sensors work and why water is an issue especially at 90/10W% hydrous content.

https://bartuneengineering.wordpress.co ... el-sensor/
https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewco ... =auto_pres

water is alcohol and alcohol is water to FFV sensors. Typical hydrous will be 5-10% water that isnt combustable and doesnt factor into the AFR tables. Plus FFV's dont use Wideband O2 sensors so tables are set for 1 lambda. That 5-10% deviation in fuel density cant be translated electrically (albeit there has been work on "water" detection sensors in fuel systems to feed data the FMS) to the FMS/ECU and will be seen as a highly oxygenated fuel relative to the VE and fuel maps. FFV sensor says there is more oxygen (oxygen enriched ethanol) so enrich the mixture to maintain AFR. As well AFR tables may dynamically shift. FFV can go from a target 13:1 with gas to 8 or 9:1 with alcohol. Overfueling occurs in an attempt to compensate for less GAS/more Ethanol (liquid air enriched). Timing gets advanced as well when the EtOH value increases on FFV sensors. FFV stratagies are complicated and water is a factor ASTM doesnt allow and therefore isnt compensated by manufacturers in strategies. Ford and GM build around certified ASTM fuels, not your home brew hydrous. Bottom line, CAR NO RUN RIGHT!

Dont get me wrong, the water is awesome for timing, quench, cooling.... its a magic pill. But a sensor trying to ignore it but acting on it is a problem. 15% agua is my target for the test engines. That should reduce cost dramatically for production and I can just add MORE FUEL to get more POWER becasue I have forced induction and excess air available. Liquid intercooling with 15%.

Now without a FFV sensor to override an FMS/ECU fuel and AFR table, it simply rolls along not caring or adjusting fueling, sans MAP/MAF, TB position, rpm,O2 etc. It doesnt know about the fuel and water, its just sees a FUEL and SENDS it till O2 sensor voltage is correct. Doesnt mean it runs well, but it is more than likely NOT going to experience dramatic changes in tuning as you drive. The O2 and MAP sensors will guide the AFR corrections quite nicely as long as FFV sensor doesnt factor in, even with lots and lots of water. I dont want a FFV sensor in anything with hydrous unless a Brazilian designed it.
Oh bullshit. Have you actually tried ANYTHING?
The sensor gets the engine system in the ballpark for trim. Once close, the o2 sensor reads the exhaust and adjusts from there. Modern ecus are happy to trim plus or minus 20 percent. After that, it will continue to adjust but will throw a cel.
In other words if you are using any megasquirt or other aftermarket ecu simply let the ecu figure it out. Should happen quickly.
It will figure it out much quicker with a fuel monitor
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
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