Generator that runs on ethanol.

Alcohol is an inexpensive, clean and renewable fuel source.

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taltho1
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Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by taltho1 »

How can I find out how to mod my generator to run off of ethanol?
I've looked all over to no avail, I can't find anything about the subject anywhere... or at least nothing conclusive.
please let me know if you know something about how to do this. thanks in advance.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by rad14701 »

Try contacting the engine manufacturer... I wouldn't be surprised if you were to find that it isn't possible...
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by taltho1 »

Well... I guess the Hope is a dismal one then.
Thanks rad14701
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by ozone39 »

gonna have to bump up that compression......Think'n it's a reasonable possibility for small engines to run off alcohol......
thinking inside the box is for squares....
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Husker »

You will have to rejet (to run quite a bit richer), and also be concerned about heat. One thing that makes running on ethanol better / cheaper (especially cheaper to produce), is to run ethanol with water still in it (80% or 160 proof). This does 3 things. One, it simply runs better. Two, it runs cooler (the water vapor will pull heat out the tail pipe, and keep piston top and valves from getting so hot. Third, it is MUCH easier to produce 80% than 96% and then have the added cost of dewatering the 96%.

Now, to run ethanol with ANY water in it, you will NOT be able to have any petroleum in the mix. You can not cut it with RUG or anything like that. This is one of the big bugaboos with having the gooberment involved in the process. You can not legally sell higher strength than E85 with 15% RUG in it. Thus, you have to have dry (200 proof) ethanol for it to mix properly. But on your own, not providing for others, you can run straight ethanol.

Now, the problem (one of them), with ethanol, is it requires a LOT of energy to mash, and distill. If you can find a way to remove the energy of the mash, and then do distillation in a energy efficient way (using the condenser as the wash pre-heater, only distilling to 80%, etc).

It sounds like you are trying to setup somewhat off the grid. If so, you may want to look at non-standard energy sources to distill with. Wood, or other sources (dry cow shit, etc), can be used. If using sources like this, then do some research on a 'rocket stove'. You can run one of those very very efficiently for something like a boiler to a still.

Good luck. I hope I have given some information you can use to research further. NOTE, I have not done any of this (but am looking to build a rocket stove for my keg boilers to do some wood driving of the stills). I have not run an engine off of ethanol, but have looked into what it would take. For small time 'backup' usage such as a small generator, I think it is well doable. To run your car off of, as a daily driver, I do not find ethanol to be a viable DIY project. You will find that ALL you are doing is producing ethanol, 24/7. To produce a tank full of ethanol (20 gallons) from non-sugar sources, you will likely have to deal with production of 200-300 gallons of mash, fermenting that, and then distilling all of that. If you are running that big, and doing that on a weekly basis (that is for just 20 gallons a week), then it will very soon come to be a HUGE undertaking. But if you need 2-3 gallons a week or so, for running a generator/chain saw, etc, that is in the realm of doing (but will still be a decent amount of work).

Have fun, H.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by still crazy »

My kid runs a an alcohol burning snowmobile
HOWEVER
This machine is built and rebuilt all the time. Hoses are all stainless and special vitron and they still don't last long.
It blows heads, burns rings, spits fire, melts plugs and goes way faster than I would ever want to go on ice.
He pours the alcohol thru some flaked stuff that removes all the water.
I think with a generator you would want to use a mellow burning stable fuel.
I even hate using the 10% fuel we are forced to use in my toys.
Last tank of boat or snowmobile gas is usually Aircraft fuel as it has no added BS.
Daddy used, to say " Any landing you can walk away from is a good one"
Calculations don't mean shit when compared to the real world practical experience of many...RAD 9/2010
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by rc22 »

We've run any number of model engines on alcohol... really gotta pour it through !
Up the % of nitro in the mix and they really crackle. :lol:
+1 on the prior explanation. I can't really see where it would be practical, unless under dire circumstances... then we'd be dealing from a whole new deck of cards.
Alcohol WILL eat up all the plastic that is not specifically designed for use with it.
Been there, done that. :roll:
Got a couple gennies I would try it on, one day... and if that was successful, and old Ford that couldn't be hurt. :lol:
Good luck with that project!
..use platinum tipped sparkplug... something about platinum reacts w the alcohol well for ignition...
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by azeo »

Hey there and welcome, particulary to the fuel section.
Was going to do the quick answer to start with, but looks like I've gone ahead with a bit more anyway!

Right on what's been said so far, issues of fuel production volume, cost/time/effort, feedstocks, stillage etc, and fuel line materials, jetting, corrosion, damge etc, really do apply.

What's your aim with the generator? A test bed to play around with, or a longer term more serious application if things go well?

*Some* advice at this stage can depend a bit on what the aims and present progress are.

Let's break it down a bit;
Desired goal/s. What they are... small, big, play, longer term intent/self sufficiency, sustainability etc.
If homemade fuel, suitable feedstock, and method of use or conversion if starchy.
Space/land available.
If small volume, costs using bought feedstocks such as sugar, corn etc, and heating from lpg, NG, electricity etc may be bearable.
Waste feedstocks or cheap crops, and waste wood firing could (would!) make it a better deal in larger volumes, as Husker has said.
Means of disposing or reusing stillage, by-products etc.
Affordable energy cost for volume desired.
Equipment, feremters, still etc of appropriate size (or sizes, more than one size is useful, small volue testing is an important step.)
Any fuel/beverage ethanol >= 80% being made at present?

Even if the goal is to make your own fuel (or already doing so) it's certainly possible (even preferable) to start testing with some denatured industrial alcohol first.

That can save a whiole lot of effort, and provides a usefulbenchmark. It will be pure (apart from denaturents), and is more than likely to have a favourable pH compared to homemade stuff, unless the homemade stuff is processed in a certain way, and this helps reduce reduce potential corrosion. It can also be diluted to simulate hydrous fuel, useful for testing, and determining designs, desired proof/reflux ratios, output, and energy useage for the fuel-making process.

For a start, if info has been a bit hard to get hold of, pay a visit to these sites at least, have you seen these?

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This covers alot of basics. Have a look at carbueretted vehicle conversions info, it will tend to apply to a generator too.
Main jet, idle jet, mixture settins, ign timimg, these are the basics, esp for basic motors.
Efi is also good to look into, but understanding basics first is a better way to go.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Yahoo Ethanol Fuel Group. Alot of well informed people here, but do some "homework" first before asking really
elementary questions, you'll get more from the experience.

Also see if a local library has a copy of "Alcohol Can Be a Gas" by David Blume (or purchase a copy), there is so much useful information in here, a very full picture.

This,
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/bioenergy/pdfs/ ... Blends.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
may be useful too. Full title is "Effects of Intermediate Ethanol Blends on Legacy Vehicles and Small Engines"
A bit technical/detailed, but is good in that it covers vehicle and small engine testing, such as generators.
Although it only covers blends, some similar issues to E85 and E100.

I've only skim read it at this stage, so not much help on contents unfortunately, but like what I've seen so far.

So, if not already, gain a bit of understanding of the differences and combustion issues/engine requirements between straight gas, E10, E85, and neat alcohol etc.

Ethanol and methanol have been used as high octane racing fuels since tmie immemorial, if you have access to any racers on two or four wheels, or visit speed shops, there could well be someone with good experience/knowledge.

Beware of anecdotes/procedures though that tend to only apply to racing or methanol, because of the difference between that activity and everyday uses. Some things that are fine in racing, are not for the street, and vice versa.

Next plan of attack if going ahead, is to source as much info about target generator as possible, Maybe choose a motor/generator that doesn't matter too much if things go wrong!

See what needs to be modified or changed, and how to return back to normal if that may be required.
Look at the materials used in fuel tank, line, any taps, in the carby, and replace all nitrile o-rings or seals with alky resistant viton, and plastics, fuel lines etc with alc compaible materials.

If nec on model of genny, modify ign sender unit so that the timing can be advanced.

Source required spare parts so that you can keep originals to swap back in. A spare carby, manifold and spare jets to modify is a good move, A "hotter" plug, or a choice of ranges is also a good move.

In the long term, a synthetic oil may be suitable, or frequent checking/oil changes. Pay to keep an eye on this.

A cold start method is also very useful, if not essential. This could be as simple as starting on gas to begin with,pre- heating the fuel or manifold in some way, or a spray of engine start, or an lpg vaporisor, which is *very* handy.

Some larger generators such as Cummins have an lpg kit as an option, and I can highly reccommend it. A proper manual choke is almost essential. Electric start is good, because while getting things right, pull starting can be a road to frustration. Getting things hot and up to running temp first on another fuel is the best way to start with alcohol, get this right, then rich cold running can be worked on.

Other useful items could be an auxiallary alcohol tank and tap, again this saves frigging around with standard stuff to start with, if it's compatibility is in doubt.

Extras if money is available to splash around, or loaners available, would be an Exhaust temperature gauge,and a wideband O2 sensor/gauge. A generator is like a poor mans dyno, so with a range of loads from zero to full, and if a mechanical or electrical throottle position sensor is also added, a good gas benchmark can be obtained, and the information and tools available to better judge mixture settings, performance and emissions on alky.

Another good move, especially for homemade hydrous alky, (but for any kind if fuel pumps are involved), is an anti-corrosive/upper cyl/fuel pump lubricant additive. Redline make a couple of specialised products, one specificaly for 2-stroke alky fuel (but fine in the small qtys only required for this kind of app), and a specific alcohol fuel additive. Castor oil can also be used, and while it smells good, unless it's a specific automotive product such as "Castrol-R" or the Redline alternative, some gelling, dropout, etc may ocurr in fuel stored long term/left in carby. It shouldn't be a problem in the combustion chambers in the small qtys used for this ap though.

It's also a wise move to drain the carby at the end of each batch testing, some carbs are made of cheap material that
homemade hydrous fuel in particular like to coorode and gell. Brass and copper too can be affected, and some plastics, so this checking comes under the materials compatibility checking and rectifying, esp for long term, reliable. use.

Jetting will require some pin drills in a wide range of sizes, and maybe some solder and an iron to take things back if holes get too big! Micrometer can be handy to double check pin-drill sizes, easy to lose track of size of a dozen or more small drills. They also make useful gauges for measuring existing jets.

It all depends really on what the aim is, small, simple mororbikes also make a good item to play around with.

Generators, tending to be low comp etc, may well be quite thirsty on Etoh, unless manifold heating, or even vaporisation used.

I'm messing around with a 24HP Cummins/Onan, 980cc horizontal twin generator, and an old TT500, both a real hoot, but quite thirsty on the alc with only jetting and ign timing to vary. The Cummins is particularly thirsty as I haven't delved into the ign timing capability yet.

With the hassles of jetting and ign timimg, and both projects not yet sorted (although I'm going to have another crack at the TT before taking it back to standard), Efi is really the way to go. Now planing to use the Cummins, and a smaller less valuable bike, and a cheap old efi car as testbeds for a "Megasquirt" build. This Diy ecu is well supported, can support all manner of fuel and ign maps depending on the version, and can do real time tuning. That's flexibility!

In the Megasquirt forums, people have converted all sorts of things to Efi, from tiny four strokes, Briggs and Stratton V-twins, to Deloreans, so if the interest is there to take conversion a bit further, thers' certainly some info out there, and going from carb to Efi/Gas with a tuneable Ecu, is a step towards Efi/Ethanol, or conversion from factory ecu to tunebale ecu

I'll be posting more on this when I've had some time to assemble and test the unit, and have something more to report.

Hope this useful/interesting.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by rad14701 »

azeo wrote:Hope this useful/interesting.
azeo, that's some comprehensive information for folks considering fuel ethanol to chew on... Thanks for taking the time to type it all out... My short and somewhat terse rendition is based on a whole lot of reading, and a bit of tinkering, and anyone seriously considering such a venture owes to to themselves to do more than ample research... Repairs after attempting to run an engine not designed for ethanol can prove to be a costly mistake which could very well offset years of anticipated savings...
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by azeo »

rad14701 wrote:Thanks for taking the time to type it all out
Thanks Rad... at the end of a bit of vacation/leave so a bit more time than usual!

yep anyone considering using alternative fuels is best to find out as much as possible, get prepared as much as can be forseen, review safety etc, (fuels and ignition sources! even static electricity is highly dangerous around vapours), start with a non critical power plant, get a feel for tuning, rich, lean, timing etc. Do baseline on gasoline. It's really important to know what's happening and why, and how to correct it, esp when things may not be working as expected, when departing from factory settings and fuels.

There are also some darn good textbooks on fuel systems, efi etc, for cars and bikes, these are worth going to a library for and can provide far better info than on the internet. It's not a good move to rely on *only* the internet, despite how much is available and published now.

Here's another bunch of links that apply well to generators, and older vehicles, and some more alternative fuel links in general. Some more than likely been put up here before...

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... drane.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Oldie, but agoodie on converting a Dodge Dart

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... h/me2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Howto from "Mothers" manual

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... l_ToC.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Good manual with lots of info

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... meToC.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Complete "Mother's" Manual

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#ME" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Library index-easy to find, but chucked it in here...

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... h/me4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Waste oil stoves. Interesting alternative to wood firing, this may have potential as a rocket stove build (or just as is) to increase efficiency and reduce emissions, and perhaps a bit more control.

http://www.hawkgold.com/hkg/docs/ethanol_tech.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This is a useful technical sheet and overview of commercial fuel

After a bit of googling, have found this,
http://www.mail-archive.com/sustainable ... 03644.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Discusses the generator topic, but doesn't give much info howto...
Entire mailing list is full of bio-energy info.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Handy

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter ... ive_fuels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Keep up to date

http://www.gizmag.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.gizmag.com/motorcycles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.gizmag.com/automotive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Technology news

http://www.msruns.com/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Megasquirt successful projects-a good place to start to see some diy efi of various types of installs and vehicles/power plants.

http://www.whitelightning.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
An example of E85 conversion kit for efi cars

There's also the "Power Commander" for motorbikes.

These following links are *really* good, a thorough way to approach conversions, lots of good info, inluding platinum coating the pistons(!) (might explain the effectiveness of the spark plugs mentioned by rc22), plus notes about ethanol galvanic corrosion that also apply to distillation, particularly with the mix of acids, trace compounds and alcohols, materials/metal mixes, water and raised temps in the vapour in our beverage and fuel set-ups

http://www.engr.unl.edu/~ethanol/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.engr.unl.edu/~ethanol/unl-sae2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.engr.unl.edu/~ethanol/unl2000.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

These are fantastic papers, based on actually *doing* the job, and address the issues of using ethanol.

The beauty of a generator I hope, is to be able to evaluate many parameters at various loads, to help translation to road vehicles where a dyno may not available. So many things to look at, such as water content, fuel temp and viscosity, rail pressure, air inlet temp, manifold/airbox/plenum, exhaust issues etc.

Manufacturers spend quite a bit on R&D to optimise manifold/fuelling/cam designs etc for their products, pretty hard to compete with that, so modifications have to be performed with some sort of informed basis, and reasonable (if not better) means of judging results, even if it is just average mpg, spark plug-reading, load pulling ability, seat of the pants stuff etc.

Again, hope some useful info here, good luck those prepared to have a tinker!
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by emptyglass »

I have to come back and thoroughly read azeo's post, but,

The gas companies have accounts bigger than the GDP of a lot of countries. You can be gauranteed they won't make it easy for you to stop your addiction to their product.

Its good to know the technical knowledge is out there, despite the impracticalitys.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by blanikdog »

One thing we can be certain of is that the oil companies have the knowledge to do it now and have had it for decades, but they are after as much of your money as they can until the planet is bled dry of oil, and out of the blue one day surprise , surprise 'we' know how but to use ethanol, but it won't be released until the planet is indeed bled dry. Then they'll continue to bleed you dry of your money.

Bless their cotton pickin hearts. :o :o :o
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by azeo »

oh for sure, biofuels require lots of *surface* land area, even for high density algal or "3d" horticultural production, and oil companies do not necessarily have that! Even if they do decide to invest in large areas of land for bio-fuel production, it may not be available to them in all the areas they desire for climate suitability, and who knows what mechanisms, political, business or otherwise will be used *to* make enough land available in the event of extreme need. It certainly seems possible to mine Canadian oil shale without much regard for the environment.

In the meantime etoh is a good oxygenate and emission reducing agent, depsite such issues as moisture vulnerability, materials compatibility etc. These, by necessity, seem to be mostly resolved by large scale adoption in various countries.

Oil companies may probably much prefer to refine crude bio-oil from various sources into "bio-petrol" and bio-diesel as "drop-in" fuels than only depend on bio-ethanol, even though it has become more of a drop-in fuel with the availability of FFV's. The efforts in Brazil to be import fuel independent show that it is indeed possible to have a domestic bio-fuel and energy production industry. However, heavy transport will require a diesel and fuel-oil alternative, and eventually, somehow, oil companies will be involved surely with the large volumes required, at a premium no doubt!

The rising cost of fuel and supply insecurities must surely be making alternatives more attractive and desirable to governments by now. Raising employment, lowering balance of payments, reducing dependence and improving security, look like pretty damn good benefits, despite the huge investment and turn-around in thinking, infrastructure, fleet composition and land use that will be required. Look at it this way, we the "little people", will have very little say, except for self driven local community and co-operative initiatives, in how and when this is all done to keep the wheels of commerce turning, and the cohesion and fabric of society stable and complete.

Despite the gnashing of teeth (mine too!), we haven't really been paying much for the energy contained in a barrel of oil considering how much work it can do.... and we're virtually held to ransom on that dependency, or whatever source of energy and fuel we use.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by azeo »

Biofuel technologies vie to provide a sustainable supply of transportation fuels
Useful overview

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8907cover.html
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Another interesting link

Post by azeo »

Abstract

The fuel of the future, according to both Henry Ford and Charles F. Kettering, was ethyl alcohol made from farm products and cellulosic materials. Ford, of course, is well known as an automotive inventor; Kettering was the head of research at General Motors and a highly respected inventor in his own right.
http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/papers/fuel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Interesting!
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Biofuels Reports Centre

Post by azeo »

azeo
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Great Summary

Post by azeo »

Increasing use of ethanol as an automotive fuel in the United States has generated a lot of questions concerning the
effect of ethanol-gasoline blends on spark ignited internal combustion engines. This paper will attempt to clear up
confusion surrounding:
• Low ethanol blends (E10, E15)
• E85 and how flex fuel vehicles handle high ethanol blends
• How electronically controlled fuel injection systems in modern automobiles adapt to different fuel blends
• The impact of ethanol blending on small engines, marine engines and classic automobiles with carbureted
fuel systems.
http://www.liquidsunenergy.com/learning/ppt/ice.pdf

The truth is out there!! Well, much of the story anyway! :D
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by hackware »

mother earth news is a good source for diy'rs...

re: http://www.motherearthnews.com/

william...
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by emptyglass »

I've got an old generator with a Honda G200 (not GX200).

If I was to;
1, get a hotter plug
2, make the timing adjustable for advancing
3, enlarge the jet
4, shave the flat head for increased compression (side valve)

It should run on 80%abv (or better), right?

I'm not talking about starting, fuel production, self sustainability, tree hugging or any of that. I only have it for emergencies, the only anticipated use is in a bushfire (I live in the bush) and it will only be so handy. The fire pump has a GX200 on it, and for reliability will only ever have RUG in it.

The generator is more of an experiment. I just want to say it runs on shine (well, a form of, but I won't tell them the truth if you don't)

If its only the points above at a minimum, it seems feasable to give it a go. Could use old still wash alc, funky heads/tails, or brew up a sugar wash. I'd do this so I don't stuff my still for beverage use by distilling cellulose or other crap. I'd only need 10 to 15 litres to get a few hours running out of it. I don't think this unit has seen 10 litres of RUG through it in 10 years. I don't use it much, so its sort of a good test bed, I wont be stuck if it puts a leg out of bed or melts a piston.
Making the timing adjustable could be a bit of dicking around on a G200. I want to see if you guys can help me do this, without giving a bucket load more links. How much do the brains here hold? Grab a drink and tell me what you think.

Any suggestions?

Edit; forgot to add that I lunched the AVR in the old girl today, so until I get that sorted, I'm just brain farting. Bastards want $220 for a AVR for a $100 generator.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Tater »

Been looking at generators myself with alternate fuels. So far running one off a stream engine looks most promising fuel wise living in woods as I do.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Dnderhead »

i tried alcohol in small engine,,I got it to run ok but it deteriorated the aluminum block.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by emptyglass »

Tater wrote:Been looking at generators myself with alternate fuels. So far running one off a stream engine looks most promising fuel wise living in woods as I do.
Gee Tater, if you were considering going as far as a non gas motor, I think you would have to consider a sterling (hot air) engine. They are getting pretty good power out of them nowdays, with rhombic drive, pressurised crankcase's and the like.
Steam has some pretty heavy maintenance issues in its own right, but once you had a boiler set up, it would be good for cooking mash and driving a still as a side benefit.
http://stirlingengineforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Dnderhead wrote:i tried alcohol in small engine,,I got it to run ok but it deteriorated the aluminum block.
I'm guessing it was serious enough deteriation to be a concern, otherwise you wouldn't mention it.
How much work did the motor do before it was a problem?
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Dnderhead
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Dnderhead »

""I'm guessing it was serious enough deterioration to be a concern""
yes serious enough for a rebuild.this does not pay with most small engines.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by emptyglass »

Wasn't one of those aluminium bore briggs and strugling's, was it?

Do you mean the bore deteriated, or other parts of the motor?

How'd the valves go?
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Dnderhead »

It was the "top end" valve,head, top of block.bore ok.bottom end ok.
this ran 6-8 hours steady on 95% ethanol (after tinkering)
from my understanding the piston/bore is impregnated with silicone,this probably protected those parts.
but not the deck/head.also Iv seen some engines have magnesium mixed with aluminum,this also helps with resistance to ethanol.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by fullhouse »

so a old cast iron motor would be best to run ethanol in?
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Dnderhead »

"so a old cast iron motor would be best to run ethanol in?"
I whould thank so or maybe one of the newer rated for alcohol?
as I understand the more magnesium that is added the better.
I have not tested all,nor do I want to.It does not pay to make
ethanol for fuel where I live.it also gits cold here and
engines do not like to start on ethanol.Id need a duel fuel system.
all this could be done,but is it worth it?
If I could do as I wanted I whould try a steam boiler to run a generator,
use the condensed steam to heat with.water power is another that whould be interesting.
but for now the best thing to do is to conserv.move near you work,and if you can do with out
do so.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by Ayay »

I like the idea of a steam engine. It can be a piston type or a turbine fired by anything that burns to heat the water just like a nuclear power plant.

What about a dual injection system on an internal combustion engine? One set of injectors for gasoline, and another set for alcohol. Or a regular gasoline carburettor plus an injector for the alcohol. Computer control of the direct injection could allow all kinds of variables to be tried out.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by emptyglass »

Not sure if dual injectors would work. They might foul or burn away, as they rely on the fuel to keep thier cool. The set thats working should give no trouble, but the idle ones might.

I like steam. So much can be done with it, but its not without trouble. Its got good corrosive power, boilers need upkeep, valves and controls need upkeep, saturated steam is a little inefficient for motive purposes, superheated steam is dangerous.
To find a leak on a flange gasket with superheated steam, the best way is to use a piece of paper and place it where you think its leaking. The steam will cut the paper and you find the leak. Do it with your fingers, and it will cut them.

But if it wasn't so powerful, the nuclear guys wouldn't use it.

It seems that to get a generator to run on eth, at least the consumer level ones, the best way would be to blend ethanol and gas, but is it viable to get the last bit of water out?
I believe it needs to be filterd or absorbed, and I have heard that acid scrubbing exists, but I know nothing of the costs.
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Re: Generator that runs on ethanol.

Post by nb0s »

Firstly lets look at ethanol production. The heat from the generator in both its' coolant water and exhaust can be utilized to heat the wash to produce ethanol. Use of an air cooled engine is not advisable, as pointed out by many, ethanol has less energy than gasoline but a higher octane rating. This means that to get the most from ethanol the compression ratio needs to be increased and the timing need to be advanced. Both these things place added pressure on the cooling system. Plugs need to be cooler. Starting on a tuned engine should not be a problem but if starting difficulties arise then a diesel start such as "aerostart can be used until complete tuning is accomplished. I have heard of people using WD40 but have no personal experience of this. The biggest problem is corrosion and certain engine parts such as carburetors made of poor quality die cast materials. Carby floats too, tend to sink - needles are often rubber tipped etc. etc. etc. An upper cylinder lubricant could be considered. It's not going to be an easy path but a system looked at as a whole should be able to produce its' own fuel from a wash. Almost energy for nothing!!!
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