50 gallon stainless steel build

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KillerOKane
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50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Hello everyone,

I'm working on a 50 gallon steam injected stainless steel bolier / still build, I'm needing a nominal thickness to work with for the boiler, if your running a drum your thickness an performance info would be appreciated. Since I'm using steam injection the thinner the boiler the better for heat transfer from the steam is logical but the temp fluctuations from the injection would be more apparent, less steel to hold heat from the supply making a more apparent fluctuation. The still will be a pot still with a constriction head (I can explain that if necessary). The fuel source to the steam producing vessel will be free (home made charcoal / see other apparatuses post). I will piping the insulated steam pipe from outside my house into the basement to the still (max 9 feet of travel). Any insight will be appreciated annnnd I drank the cool aid and I beleive in quality over quantity buuuutt I am working on the time effectiveness side of the house. I can devert 48 hours of time more easily than 4 or five evenings of running.

I am a truest. That is why I created a traditional copper pot still first. I am now working in the more advanced forms of energy / heat delivery.
Last edited by KillerOKane on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steal build

Post by Prairiepiss »

That's a little bigger then they will allow talked about around here. Not exactly hobby scale.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by Tater »

might wanna try one of the craft distilling sites were hobby level here .Your bigger then we want discussed on our forums.
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
KillerOKane
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

No worries, I have been working with a thirteen gallon for years, I want abit more volume per batch to add to the aging stock. Let me tell you I'm a disabled retired vet and it seems that I'm working / doing more in my retirement than ever before. The process of the bread Doug seal up and cleaning the copper goodness is a pain in the ass!! I am extremely conservative in the cuts and only blend the proper amounts for the flavor profile I like. I am in this thing for refinement and quality. I have been retiered since September and I'm trying to start a lumber business and have been doing knife / blacksmithing work on the side. I'm looking for larger shots to conserve time and energey. Cheers and you all have a great one. Further comments are appreciated if possible.

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KillerOKane
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Hello tater,

I have not run acrosses a boiler size threashold in the forum, I truely want to play by the rules and be in good graces.
I am trying to play with the steam injection method. I was originally leaning to the 15 gallon keg format with a jacket but looking at the volumes I was considering a all fab build and documenting the build for the site (energey conservation) I'm figuring that a standard sized keg is the boiler threshold? I have been looking at the essentials; time,money,effort and end results. Sheet is pretty reasonable where I'm at soooooo I was looking at a single ferment and distillation. Any insight would be appreciated. And if sales is in the minds eye; people couldn't afford my end result, to much love and care to let go but for only a chosen few to enjoy. I lived In Hawaii for ten years and the guberment thought better to move me for my last year before my medical retirement. Needless to say that the boys and I had one hell of a going away party to eleminate my stock. Shipping of flammable liquids is frowned at by Uncle Sam and the movers. I had to scrap out the majority of my rig and ship only the still. Looking forward to a more technical apparatus!

Killer O Kane
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rumbuff
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by rumbuff »

Hi KilleroKane, I can't help much with the steam jacket related questions, but I can say this. I agree with your method of efficiency. I know that large boilers are frowned upon here, and mostly for good reason. I want to upgrade myself simply because my scotch recipe foams too much, and doing 25 liters in 2 batches seems like a waste of time and energy to me. As long as you're not selling, and choose to simply run once a month as opposed to once a week, I'm for it. I'm curious to the steam delivery, would there be more effective means of energy transfer? Either way, good luck.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

RumBuff,

Making a traditional rum at med to low Abv'a is a painful and yet rewarding at the same time, I'm looking at running once a month or every other. I started with the time honored traditional route with a few advancements in vapor flow. I love the craft and now I'm looking at combining tech and tradition at the hobbie level. My still started its life as a 225 dollar copper sheet (excluding the lyn arm) and love and patience formed it into its current state. Funny thing is I feel that a traditional pot still run effectively makes a rediculas spirit. My rums and whiskeys are rediculas in a single pass. I can make neutrals in two passes utilizing solid hearts and abit more flavorful hearts for mouth feel. Something about the sight, smell and sound detection and control makes me feel more in control and competent. That slight sound and stream flux of boil surge in your boiler signaling the end on the hearts and transition into tails gives me alot of satisfaction. Watching & listing during distillation process is a awsome teacher if you pay attention. I rarely look at the the proof meter. I can peg it by smell, taste and visual inspection alone. Thank you for the post and be

MERRY
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DrunkASAskunk
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by DrunkASAskunk »

Hi KillerOKane

Steam is a grate way of heating but first I got to ask what do you know about running wood or coal fired boilers. Secon is what sort of skills you got when it comes to boiler fabrication.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Hey Hey,

My expertise was carpentry for along while, three years ago the home distillation bug got me and I had zero metal working history soooo I took thirty days to learn and formulate a plan for the still. I had never sweated a pipe before that. Well it's funny how things happen but the construction of the still intrigued me so much I got a MIG Welder and a plasma system and haven't looked back. Fabrication and creation are my primary hobbies right now from knife work to building kayak racks.

I'm looking at a vertical fire tube boiler, think square fire box welded into the bottom of a cylinder ( no door, more like a funnel) with tubing coming off the box "thru"out the boiler to a smoke stack(heat diffusion through out the boiler) I'm placing the vessel over a forced air charcoal forge (brake drum insulated with refractory cement) I posted pictures of my primary forge on the other apparatuses section. Forced air will ensure a rapid heat up and a more constant heat supply. I live in the country side so wood is plentiful so home made charcoal seems logical AND FREE. Here is an example pic, think vertical instead of horizontal.

More to come!!
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drinkingdog
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by drinkingdog »

Steam can be very dangerous in multiple ways. Explosions, severe burns ect. I personally wouldn't think of trying that with your experience. But that is just me. Be safe and enjoy.
My Grandpa used to say. Don't argue with an idiot, because he will just drag you down to his level then beat you with experience.
He also used to say. I didn't say it was your fault. I just said that I was blaming you.

DD
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Experience is only gained by actual work performed and by the needed due diligence in research and design. This project will be challenging but that's what I love about life and its endeavors. Most people read safety warnings and walk away, some people run head long into the void. I have a lot of tactical patience and I feel my idea is viable and defiantly workable. I will be working under 10psi of pressure and their will be mega shit tons of fail safes. I don't go cheap on safety hardware and I've had large 3rd degree burns in my life. I respect hot liquids and melt your face off steam!! Thank you
For your concern and if any one has built a steam system utilizing solid fuel hit me up.

Be easy every one.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by shadylane »

Boilers are dangerous. The more water at boil the more hazardous they become. A mono-tube steam generator is the least dangerous.
I don't recommend steam heat for a hobby still.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

The more water at boil part your referring to rapid steam conversion and said steam overwhelming the structural integrity of the boiler and safety's? I would imagine that going balls out at a constant heat would blow me straight to hell.

I'm leaning towards a rapid heat up and a very modest heat transfer once steam production has begun. I will be using commercial safety's such as;

Safety valves, water gauge sight glasses, flue temperature gauge, inline safety's. I'm looking into a low water cut off as well(should not be needed considering the device will be attended and not left alone.
I will be conducting full dry pressure testing and ratings before introduction of liquids. I'm looking for some good reads to buy in the boiler making field. My blacksmith guild sits right next to the areas largest steam engine exhibit. I will be searching out some old crustys for advice. I think some of the hobby steam engine guys will have some great advice to.

Main goal is to attain free fuel and eneegey delivered to a jacketed still.

Will be writing more once I get back to the house

Be merry all
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DrunkASAskunk
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by DrunkASAskunk »

Hello again.

First I would like to point out that I am a Boilermaker by trade and my father is a boiler operator by trade this giving me a prity good insight on the old steam boiler. KillerOKane please do not go down the path of using steam. A steam boiler is a bome. Your trying to make your hobby ezyer but what you are talking about is not going to do that. If I am right you are trying to reduce the time needed for you to be at the still yes. By using steam you are just terning a one man hobby in to a two man hobby. Your gona need one person at the still waching that then another at the coal fired steam boiler waching that. I feel that this forum is probly not the best place to talk steam boilers and the safe operation of them. Ferther more I think having this open topic on this forum is only going to give other people in the future bad iders. Bad iders that can lead to someone being killed. Sorry to be a kill joy but that's that.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by Stainless dude »

Cut the guy some slack Drunk. He has obviously has done his home work and done some research on a steam boiler. I also know a bit about steam and worked around it for many years. Yes it can be very dangerous but also is a great median for heat transfer. If he was talking about building a steam engine in his shop like many people have done would you feel the same way?
Good for him that he is learning new things in his retirement, I hope I am doing the same when I get to that point....
Nuff said
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Drunk as a Skunk,

I appreciate your consern but you and your clan are actually in a great spot to give me time honored and respected advice in the construction. Hell even hot riveted bands surronding the boiler is in my tool box and reach (old school)

For future readers and contributors: THE STEAM BOILER BUILD IS GOING TO HAPPEN so please "don't try to talk me out of the build". If you share an interest in the use of steam production feel free to share some of your experiences.
I had a funny PM mentioning my age (30) versus retirement might be an issue, clarification I was medically retired due to injurys sustained in combat. 12 years served and I wish I could have eight more and be healthy but my spine and the rest of my body said no. I do the "due dillegence" in research and development but advice from people that have walked this road with the same goals as me would be awsome.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

KillerOKane wrote: For future readers and contributors: THE STEAM BOILER BUILD IS GOING TO HAPPEN so please "don't try to talk me out of the build". If you share an interest in the use of steam production feel free to share some of your experiences.
I had a funny PM mentioning my age (30) versus retirement might be an issue, clarification I was medically retired due to injurys sustained in combat. 12 years served and I wish I could have eight more and be healthy but my spine and the rest of my body said no. I do the "due dillegence" in research and development but advice from people that have walked this road with the same goals as me would be awsome.
Thank you for your service. Glad to hear your combat experience hasn't dampened your lust for life. I Hope you live a long and productive life.

S-C
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

S-C

Thank you for your kind words!! I finally have some freedom to work on the business that I want to start,
I'm working on building two 12,000 board feet dehumidification kilns for drying hard wood lumber for whole sale resales
And my blacksmithing work. I might be broken but I'm not dead y'all!! The build is going to be awsome!!

Be safe everyone and keep on Keepen on!!
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steal build

Post by Jackass »

Prairiepiss wrote:That's a little bigger then they will allow talked about around here. Not exactly hobby scale.
Who in the world regulates what is "hobby scale" Good grief. That's what's wrong with this country now too many people saying you can't do this or you can't do that. Mr Kane Sir THANK YOU! for your service and "OUR" freedom.
As far as Hobby umm Lets see I have an eight Gallon, a fifteen gallon, a thirty gallon and a fifty gallon. YES it's all Hobby scale each one serves a different purpose depending on what I'm distilling.
Sorry PP for the thread jump but that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Now I need to go find the thread to intro myself.
Good day gentlemen
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steal build

Post by Bushman »

Jackass wrote:
Prairiepiss wrote:That's a little bigger then they will allow talked about around here. Not exactly hobby scale.
Who in the world regulates what is "hobby scale" Good grief. That's what's wrong with this country now too many people saying you can't do this or you can't do that. Mr Kane Sir THANK YOU! for your service and "OUR" freedom.
As far as Hobby umm Lets see I have an eight Gallon, a fifteen gallon, a thirty gallon and a fifty gallon. YES it's all Hobby scale each one serves a different purpose depending on what I'm distilling.
Sorry PP for the thread jump but that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Now I need to go find the thread to intro myself.
Good day gentlemen
We never say you can or cannot do it. What we do say is we are trying to get this hobby legal at a hobby level thus we do not mention or promote anything that produces more than an individual or his family can consume in a year and don't condone it. Thus mentioning it might get your post edited.
PS: Your's was not edited as I am reading sarcasm in your comments plus this is posted on alcohol as a fuel thread.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steal build

Post by Tater »

Jackass wrote:
Prairiepiss wrote:That's a little bigger then they will allow talked about around here. Not exactly hobby scale.
Who in the world regulates what is "hobby scale" Good grief. That's what's wrong with this country now too many people saying you can't do this or you can't do that. Mr Kane Sir THANK YOU! for your service and "OUR" freedom.
As far as Hobby umm Lets see I have an eight Gallon, a fifteen gallon, a thirty gallon and a fifty gallon. YES it's all Hobby scale each one serves a different purpose depending on what I'm distilling.
Sorry PP for the thread jump but that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Now I need to go find the thread to intro myself.
Good day gentlemen
I moved this post to this section so the size wouldn't be a issue as fuel still are not hobby.And I wanted to read outcome of thread.My fokes made steam likker for years (like still in my avatar )and I'm always interested oh how other fokes would do it.On this forum jackass Uncle jessie calls the shots .He has requested we keep open discussions on hobby stills to around 25 gallons.personally I agree with him .At any rate its his site. Anything posted in hobby forums bigger then this will be stopped.If this is more then you can stand you are welcome to go elsewhere.I doubt if johnny law caught ya with those still you just bragged about having on a open forum would consider it a hobby.
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by pounsfos »

"On this forum jackass Uncle jessie calls the shots .He has requested we keep open discussions on hobby stills to around 25 gallons.personally I agree with him .At any rate its his site"

keep us posted how you go

Thanks for moving this tater I was wandering if this would get deleted or not, I'm glad it didn't
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by Drunken Unicorn »

I saw a 55 gallon stainless steel drum for sale for $150 recently. I briefly thought about getting it to make a boiler, but then thought, "Do I really need something this large for a hobby?" Part of me regrets no buying it. I understand not promoting large boilers on this site as we don't want to get shutdown.

KillerOKane:
Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

While I don't have any design ideas for you, I'd recommend building a smaller version to test your theories. May cost most, but it's better then testing a theory on a large scale and hurting yourself. You said you are pumping the steam from outside? How is the steam being produced? If the steam is being produced at another boiler in a different area, that may be a safety concern as you won't have your eyes on both boilers all the time.

Many examples of bad things that can happen when you don't watch your boiler can be found here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... r+mistakes

I'm very interested to see your progress on the project. Keep us updated please. Good luck!

-DU
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by new distiller »

I don't understand the whole steam jacket thing... Why not have like a steam coil running through your wash and venting out the other side wouldn't that be more productive as far as faster heating or even the brain Marie type dealios people are building... Why the big ass 50gallon steam jacket... Or am i reading this wrong?
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by shadylane »

new distiller wrote:I don't understand the whole steam jacket thing... Why not have like a steam coil running through your wash and venting out the other side wouldn't that be more productive as far as faster heating or even the brain Marie type dealios people are building... Why the big ass 50gallon steam jacket... Or am i reading this wrong?
I've been making "cuts", so take this into consideration while I voice my opinion.
This forum is about "home" distillation.
If the still is too small, it makes safe and proper cuts more difficult.
If the still is too big, then its not about home distillation for personal consumption.
The members on this forum want the right to make small quantities of high quality alcohol.
They have a tendency to get riled up when something the size of 55 gallons is mentioned.

Now that I've got over my rant.
Steamer rigs have some good qualities. It's the ultimate in low density heating.
It's also a complex way of heating a small quantity of alcohol to boil.
Plum wine "Raki" is probably the most likely to burn on the bottom of a pot.
They don't use complex steam heat, they use wood fired pots and with a way to stir it.
There is no logical answer to your question of "Why the big ass 50gallon steam jacket"
Other than the OP wants to make one. And I've been guilty of doing the same thing.

EDITED: 23Dec2013 I just realized I'm in the "Alcohol as Fuel" section.
Note to self:
Read > post > drink = best
Drink > read > post = good
Drink > post = bad
KillerOKane
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by KillerOKane »

Well boys and girls,

Shit has hit the fan and I'm 99% percent complete. I haven't posted in a loong while due to
Life!! I hope the stiller heads out there aren't to mad. I appreciate the support and kind words!
I never let people see me sweat. If things go well ill have the drum by the first of April and kick off shall begin!!
I anticipate doing a photo and video library for the build. Now keep in mind that this is hobby scale!

Most Def..... Killer O Kane
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by DFitz »

Steam injection is a process that I'm aiming for in a build I've been involved in. Keep in mind that your boiler should remain very clean when producing steam for injection (think stainless) as this steam when heating the mash will provide a major contribution to your end product including metallic impurities. I'm not saying to build a vessel that will be directly fired; but using a vessel that is indirectly fired such as the illustration above would lend to a more positive outcome.
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Re: 50 gallon stainless steel build

Post by rad14701 »

There is a 25 gallon boiler limit for discussions unless you are legal, complete with required permits conspicuously posted in your profile signature... It doesn't matter whether you are making fuel or spirits for personal consumption... Those are our rules here, so abide by them...
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