Building a 4" perforated plate Red(nose) Rocket

[JethroBodine]

Sorry for little progress. Been having setbacks on the dephlag. The thickness and sheer size of the copper being used on this thing is just too much for our little TIG unit. I've tried, our lead welder has tried, all no good. It just won't puddle. The thin stuff is easy to get a decent weld on. Decided to braze the seams that don't touch alcohol vapor and solder the ones that do. Brass looks awesome against copper and I'm thinking of trimming the column in brass to pretty it up( even more). However, I can't get the last joint to seal with the solder. I'm going to price some copper phos rod this week and move on to other parts until I get the rod in. I'll be turning the plates tomorrow and making the down commers. I'm going to squeeze the caps onto the bottom of the downcommers and solder the two sides to hold the caps in place. This will allow me to adjust the distance between the plates as the caps won't be soldered to the plates, but will still have the water trap preventing vapor from sneaking up. I promise I'll take pics to clear that up.

[Kentucky shinner]

Hey JD some good silver solder should seal up your joint on the dephlagmator. It may be getting to hot. I did all of my soldering using Map gas. Not nearly as hot as accetylene and takes longer to hear up, but for me I have found it much easier to controll the heat of the copper with it.
Just my 2 cents again. I am sure you have already tried this.
KS

[Dnderhead]

did you preheat before welding? Iv also miged stainless to copper turned out good and no problems.

[maritime]

when i weld copper, i use AC. it is just like welding aluminum.
but it can take a little more heat to get a puddle. copper disapated the heat faster then alum.
i just used stripped copper electrical wire for filler wire.

on 2" you may need to push 200amp to get the puddle. it is pushing it for a air cooled torch. i have trashed air cooleds trying to go 300amp, on 3/8 aluminum, in the field. edges are easy.
pure tungsten-green. no 2%

[still crazy]

You should see if a plumber friend has a turbo torch with interchangable nozzles I use mine all the time to solder up to 6" copper pipe
Below is a pic with 3 of the available heads

[Kentucky shinner]

You should see if a plumber friend has a turbo torch with interchangable nozzles I use mine all the time to solder up to 6" copper pipe
Below is a pic with 3 of the available heads

That is what I am using still crazy works great.. I see you also use Map gas, which I also do. I have run out of Map and hooked up to propane. The Map is much hotter though.

[JethroBodine]

Word i got was DCEN and 2%. Tried preheating. Would lose puddle and become poreous quick as it cooled. My origional plan was to have the whole rig be copper colored except for stainless where applicable, no solder lines. 2" stuff TIGed great. When I get over my (infantile) frustration with that part of things, I will be TIGing all the smaller fittings. And once the set of contacts I burned up get replaced . I'm sure you're right KS, I'm having a heat control problem with the solder, but I think I just need to make some progress in other areas of the build and return to the dephlag later. Real life intruded on fun( build) time tonight. Will try again tomorrow.

[JethroBodine]

Got some building done and new pics. Turned some of the plates and got the down commers TIGed.

Plate in shear.

Forgot to get a pic turning

Fit just right

5" of 1/2" TIGed 3/8" off the bottom of 3/4" cap flattened to both sides. I figure this should look like a fountain when running. I wanted them self contained so I could experiment with spacing between plates. I'll attach them to allow 4 inches between plates incase I want to put 7 in the column for vodka.

More as progress allows.

[Kentucky shinner]

wow really nice fit..

[olddog]

Looks like the plan is coming together, Oh for the luxury of having a lathe to make the plates.


OD

[ScottishBoy]

I have been thinking about the problems with large copper and the heat dissipation problems that people are having and I think I have a solution. What is you took a bag of charcoal and made a narrow pit for it about twice the width of the copper peice you need to solder. light the coals and egt them to red and then lay the pipe on top of the coal and go to work. It would be hotter than hell, but the additional widespread heat would work against the thermal run off from the actual solder site. Thus, a person could ( in theory) solder a 4 inch peice of copper pipe with a plain or mapp torch without having to fight the coppers incredible ability to dissapate heat.

Thoughts?

[JethroBodine]

I always wanted to build a real honest to goodness forge. It's among about a thousand other projects. Getting heat isn't a problem for soldering, it's the TIGing that wouldn't work for me. Small machine, old, WELL broken in. For soldering I can use acytelyn and either a welding tip or a rosebud if I want a LOT of heat. Five attempts at getting the heat just right, and having it still leak made me clean up my goodies and go home. Another member PMed me about a liquid flux that might solve my problems. I'm going to give it a try before going into strip and redo mode( which is just before 20 lb. sledge hammer redo mode ).

I also found some stock lying around the shop that will make a nice little stamp cutter to make plate blanks faster. One piece is already 4 inch and I will be able to turn them down much quicker as I won't have to trim the corners off squares. Got a couple PMs about making some plates for folks. The inside of my tube is 3.922" and starting with a 4 inch blank would be much quicker and easier. I figure I can fit 7 at 4 inch spacing in my column as it sits. I have to say that 2 in that 30 inch column look lonely. I'm thinking I might have to cut it in half and have two parts like Joe's.

[rednose]

There are three ways to add or disable plates.

One is to have the plates fixed and have two or more sections of the column which you can asamble with a triclamp or whatever.

The other is to have them fixed and move the downcomers, that's the most difficult way.

The last is to have the dephlagmator detachable and just add the plates you need for the specific run (that's how I do it).

I wanted to run today with just one plate but by heavens sake I couldn't get gas, all Ecuador has problems with gas delivery right now.

Hope to get some soon.

Joe

[JethroBodine]

Hope you're up and running soon, Joe. I'm going to have mine set up like yours, more or less plates by removing the depphlag. As you pointed out, I'll probably be using one or two plates most of the time for whisky, so I'm thinking having a shorter column will save some on heating. Maybe 2 fifteen inch halves( or even 10/20 inch split) and triclamp both together for vodka runs.

[rednose]

Hope you're up and running soon, Joe. I'm going to have mine set up like yours, more or less plates by removing the depphlag. As you pointed out, I'll probably be using one or two plates most of the time for whisky, so I'm thinking having a shorter column will save some on heating. Maybe 2 fifteen inch halves( or even 10/20 inch split) and triclamp both together for vodka runs.

If you want I can guide you through something new that nobody tried yet.

The plan for the plates in 4" I posted once for Kentucky in the "still with bubble plates" topic.

I will be some days in vacation till the gas delivery is getting normalized.

[JethroBodine]

Are you refering to the single cap per plate? What kind of dimensions are you thinking? 1.5 inch tube, 2 inch cap, 2 @ 1/2 inch down commers?

[Kentucky shinner]

I'm wondering why nobody yet tried a valved plate if the bubble plate sounds to difficult?

You can use a copper penny as the valve top, solder a 1/4 tube and secure it with a 10 gauge copper wire in the lower part, ready and less headache.

That plate can rattle a little but will not allow that the liquid falls down easily.

h head plate valved.JPG

I have thought about doing this with my bottom plate and using copper rivets. The rivets are 1/8" by 1" long with a 1/4" head on the rivet. I think it would be pretty cool to hear that baby rattling.

[rednose]

Just make sure that the rivets have enough space to "play" in the hole and don't close the vapor pass.

hole size.JPG (5.1 KiB) Viewed 3369 times

[JethroBodine]

Been wondering about using this idea to test the number of holes in each plate and crimp the rivits permenantly when the right balance is found. I was also thinking stainless might be seen better against the copper. Of course( yes olddog, I hear ya) I could test it out too if I had windows in mine.

[rednose]

They balance automaticly, the valves will be pushed up by the vapor.

If there isn't enough steam some will be open some closed.

[JethroBodine]

Hey RC, Real life has been busy, but I do get some build time here and there. Been doing heavy math to plan out the cones for the tops of the boilers( little and big), got some stainless sheet in the other, waiting on some Stay Silv 15 for the dephlag, all my downcommers are the same and look like the pics I've posted here and on your thread. A bit fuzzy, but it was late and I forgot to take the camera off macro. I should have more progress tomorrow night.

[rednose]

Hey RC, Real life has been busy,....

Great Jethro, keep us updated and don't forget the micro.

Good stuff needs it's time.

[JethroBodine]

FINALLY!!! Got the MFing dephlag sealed! Sta Silv 15 will flow with enough heat pics aren't working for me here tonight( this is my third try) So I'll try tomorrow. Got some copper elbows in wrong today, trying to get that fixed. I'm just glad that I can finally check the dephlag off my list

[The Baker]

Sorry everyone, no new piccies tonight.

snip

We don't have a tubing bender at work, just a pipe bender( which will destroy my poor 2"), so I'll need to find one, or just put in 90 degree bends. I prefer the look of a long, sweeping bend over a sharp turn. I can't wait to tackle bending the 3/4" into a worm!

snip

Thanks for all the support, Guys. This site has been the best thing in my life since my kids came along. And ellie-Mae, of course... and the critters...

First I should say I don't know the difference between a tubing bender and a pipe bender;
and, second, you have probably solved the problem by now anyway.

But I had some copper pipe bent/curved by the people who fit car exhaust systems. No problems.

[JethroBodine]

A pipe is measured ID - a tube is measured OD. 4 inch tube has the same outside measurement no matter the thickness of the wall. Pipe has the same inside measurement. Also, tube wall is usually thinner at smaller sizes and kinks easier when bending. A tubing bender usually anchors one side an rolls or pulls the other end into shape, like at a muffler shop, and a pipe bender usually has a hydraulic ram with a curved fitting on the end in between two rolls that bends the pipe from the middle. There are differant configurations of both, but for what I have available, taking it to a muffler shop would be a better option.

[The Baker]

A pipe is measured ID - a tube is measured OD. 4 inch tube has the same outside measurement no matter the thickness of the wall. Pipe has the same inside measurement. Also, tube wall is usually thinner at smaller sizes and kinks easier when bending. A tubing bender usually anchors one side an rolls or pulls the other end into shape, like at a muffler shop, and a pipe bender usually has a hydraulic ram with a curved fitting on the end in between two rolls that bends the pipe from the middle. There are differant configurations of both, but for what I have available, taking it to a muffler shop would be a better option.

Thanks, now I've got a better idea of what they are.
My son just got a pipe bender, but I can see exactly how it might be unsuitable for copper. He used it to bend some gal pipe for a handrail support, and instead of keeping its shape in a nice curve the pipe has flattened out there in an ugly fold with a big transverse crease in it.

[JethroBodine]

Needed a few pics to show progress.

Plate blanks on lathe

Blanks laid out

Sealed MFing dephlag

More as progress.

[olddog]

Looking good JB keep em coming.



OD

[Samohon]

+2 Those are neat plates JB, Lookin good man...

Man I wish I had a lathe...

[Kentucky shinner]

Very nice plates dude... Wish I had me some a dem.. Oh ya.. they are damn nice you go JB