Galvanized Steel for my boiler

[rad14701]

The plumber said; "err... because it's impossible to solder, because you can't cut it without negating the effect of the galvanizing, because it's heavy, thick, and a has no viable use when copper pipe is readily available".
-Dan

And because some states no longer allow its use due to its being a secondary source within water supplies... And because excess zinc can cause organ damage, primarily the pancreas as I vaguely recall...

You see, I have researched it enough to know I won't use galvanized pipe or anything else with large amounts of zinc... But that doesn't mean I bookmark everything I read so I encourage anyone else concerned or otherwise to do the same... I do more than my fair share of research on a daily basis for my own and my paying customers needs...

And I think the following statement made by the plumber sums it up well...

and a has no viable use when copper pipe is readily available

[Ian Jay]

Ethanol with zinc may offer some protection?

Summary

Zinc is a cofactor for alcohol dehydrogenase, the ethanol metabolizing enzyme. Ethanol-induced zinc deficiency could decrease ethanol metabolism, resulting in an increase in circulating and tissue ethanol levels. This may cause retardation in embryonic growth and development. The influence of zinc supplementation on ethanol-induced embryopathy was studied by the simultaneous administration of ethanol and zinc to pregnant SD rats from gestational day 6 through 12. Ethanol was given in the form of a liquid diet and zinc was administered intraperitoneally. The ethanol group received the liquid ethanol diet, the ethanol + zinc group received the ethanol diet and zinc and the pair-fed control group was given an isocaloric control diet. Embryos were explanted from all groups on day 12 of gestation. Embryos of animals treated with ethanol alone exhibited a significantly higher rate of resorption and retarded embryonic growth and development compared to the pair-fed control group. The embryonic protein content, crown-rump length, the number of somites and embryonic morphological score were significantly reduced in the ethanol-treated group. In addition, serum zinc concentration also was lower. Compared to embryos from ethanol-treated animals, embryos from ethanol + zinc treated animals showed a significantly higher number of somites; cardiac development was more advanced and embryonic protein content was higher. These observations suggest that zinc supplementation of ethanol treated pregnant rats may have some protective influence against the embryopathic effects of ethanol.

"Protective influence of zinc against the deleterious effects of ethanol in postimplantation rat embryos in vivo"

Girma Seyoum, T.V.N. Persaud

[rad14701]

But we aren't breeding rats...

[Dan P.]

Okay, zinc is not a good option.
-Are we going to ignore the zinc in brass?
I don't really give a monkeys, because I use neither.
-Is drinking a moderate amount of distilled alcohol made in a galvanized boiler going to do you harm?
The zinc will not be present in the vapour, so no.
-Will the boiler last long? No.
-Will you have difficulty making a boiler out of galv sheet? Yes.
-Will the fumes you might create in making said boiler do you harm? They can do, yes.
-Can the disadvantages of galv sheet be offset by it's inexpensiveness? No.
-What is the bottom line concerning the toxicity of zinc?
It is toxic at fairly low levels, but unless zinc is present in the path of the condensed distillate, there is no reason to believe that it will be present in the product.
The above is also true of lead, but isn't it better to know the facts?
-Dan

[Large Sarge]

Good luck! Just mark you containers and don't feed them to your friends.

I will stick with my stainless and copper, I would like to say that threads like this piss off new guys like me. The mentors here do a good job of teaching us to be responsible and safe. It is one thing to ask for opinions but to keep antagonizing until you get someone to say uncle is Mickey Mouse.

Maybe Admin can create an "Expiremental" category for the dick measument arguments.

[rad14701]

Dan P., you are correct... But the problem we have is people either ignoring, misinterpreting, or being totally oblivious of the facts... That is why we take the stand we do from a safety perspective...

We have addressed the risks of brass as well as how to mitigate and minimize those risks... Unfortunately there is no real way to mitigate zinc by pickling on tinning as with small brass components... And even with the following quote from the parent site taken into consideration, which could give mixed signals, we just shouldn't be condoning the use of galvanized pipe for a multitude of reasons, including potentially exposed iron... Copper and stainless steel are far better options...

Galvanised Metals
Tarvus explains ...

Galvanised materials are not safe to use on the condenser side, but if it's part of the boiler or at the bottom end of the column, it should be fine (provided you don't boil so vigorously that your wash bubbles up through your column and into your collecting container. Toxic salts from metals can be dissolved in liquid, but remain behind when the liquid is vaporized (as in a reflux column).

For example, you could toss a handful of lead fishing sinkers into your boiler which could well leach toxic levels of lead into the wash. But once the vapor runs through the column, it's free of the lead salts and safe. If you used lead based solder (or galvanized parts) in your CONDENSER, that would be a different story. The hot liquid condensate could leach lead salts from soldered joints or zinc from the galvanized parts and you would wind up with contaminated product.

I hope I won't have to waste any additional time on the subject of galvanized pipe... The fact that zinc is considered a heavy metal puts it on the radar screen and knowing that it can build to toxic levels, and that it can block the uptake of essential copper and iron minerals, causing anemia at the very least, should be enough information to steer folks clear of it... Not to mention that it can impart a very distinct funky metallic smell...

[Ian Jay]

But we aren't breeding rats...

Ethics committees will not allow such experiments on humans. Hence animal studies are used and conclusions come from considered extrapolation. Those that use data sheets, MSDS, PSDS, COSHH, etc, on material safety as evidence of potential toxicity should be aware that the LD50 studies are all extrapolated from animal studies.

Did you really think that the results were derived from killing humans?

[Prairiepiss]

[blind drunk]

Ethics committees will not allow such experiments on humans.

Either will HD!

[Ian Jay]

Come on, guys. Don't shoot the messenger just because some peer reviewed paper may not support your beliefs.

[blanikdog]

If you want to use galvanised steel for a boiler, use it. Don't come here seeking permission to use what we consider to be unsafe so that when the vomit hits the blanket you can blame this forum. Nobody here can force you to play safe. If you really believe that we are all wrong, do it your way and be happy, but don't try to introduce dangerous practices to other new distillers. It's really that simple.

You've been told what the forum thinks, you reject what is said so go ahead and poison yourself. Or are we dealing with trolls here?

[ozone39]

And remember if you do decide to use galvanized components, and they have to have any welding performed on them to grind the coating off 2" beyond the heat affected zone (HAZ) so you do not get poisoning from the fumes created by the welding process of welding galvanized components .....FYI

[Prairiepiss]

Some people just don't get the whole safety issue. Or they just feel the need to contradict what ever is being spoke about.

Like I said before. If you don't have a problem using a poisonous material in your still have at it. You have been warned. Don't forget your lead underware.

There will always be a Darwin award winner. No mater how hard you try to prevent it. We are disrupting the flow of natural selection.

[retlaw]

But we aren't breeding rats...

Ethics committees will not allow such experiments on humans. Hence animal studies are used and conclusions come from considered extrapolation. Those that use data sheets, MSDS, PSDS, COSHH, etc, on material safety as evidence of potential toxicity should be aware that the LD50 studies are all extrapolated from animal studies.

Did you really think that the results were derived from killing humans?

Ethics committees don't need to allow this experiment on humans
because the sheeple volunteer to be the lab rats,
let us know when the cancer comes,

[Dan P.]

I hope I won't have to waste any additional time on the subject of galvanized pipe...

I am with you on that, rad.
What does need time spent on it is the way these questions are handled on this board.
Too often people are told to "use the search feature" when asking really quite specific questions.
Too often there is a free for all of criticism when someone questions the accepted "truths", which are quite often not all that true, as on this thread.
Too often the people offering criticism do so in a very rude and over-reactive way, as on this thread. Comments about Darwin, cancer, etc. Really nice stuff.
All too often the people jumping in on these free-for-all slap-downs know nothing about that of which they speak, as on this thread. I have even seen professional distillers "told off" by unproven amateurs on this site over the question of materials, which is just crazy.
And I'm afraid I also often get the impression that some of the "party line" on materials that is parroted by newer members is an attempt (successful?) to suck up to the the "higher ups".
None of which sets a particularly high tone to the proceedings, and might drive potentially valuable contributors to "go elswhere" (as you so kindly put it, Rad).
Having said that, there have been valuable points made;
Dnderhead, thank you for pointing out that galvanization does not mean just zinc.
Kenyfoozed, thank you for pointing out that the appearance of thoroughness in safety is important for the image of our hobby.
These are two examples of how the issue of galvanized still parts can be approached in a constructive spirit.
-Dan

[retlaw]

i know heavy metals,
i spent thousands of dollars and years of my life trying to get rid of these toxins
from my body from my ignorance when i was young figuring i knew it all,
if you allow these toxins into your body you will be getting dis-ease,
cancer has surpassed heart and stroke deaths as the number one killer,
and the use of chemicals and heavy metals are at a all time high,
one does not need to be a rocket sceintic to make the connection,
with out your health you can't do nothing,
to many take it for granted untill dis-ease settles in,

i have been studing plants that detox these heavy metals from one's body for years,
how may people know that hops is the highest estrogen plant on the planet and that the barvain purity act was created to lower mans testosterone levels to make then more sedated, grow man bobbs and go to sleep,
before that act beer was made with herbs and spices which many of them being healthy to drink,
one stroke of a pen 500 years ago eliminated all the benificial properties of drinking beer,
and the people keep getting sicker and sicker,



"The universe is an intellgence test"
Timothy leary

[Ayay]

You may get by with a galvanised steel component for a few runs. Thereafter it will fail one way or another. Maybe a quick flirt is good enough, but a proper still must go for decades otherwise why bother? The time needed to construct a good still is more valuable than the materials used. Getting the best materials is the cheap option, and using lesser materials is too cheap to be true.

[ozone39]

how may people know that hops is the highest estrogen plant on the planet and that the barvain purity act was created to lower mans testosterone levels to make then more sedated, grow man bobbs and go to sleep

what does growing man bobbs (boobs??) have to do with using galvanization?????

[squidd]

how may people know that hops is the highest estrogen plant on the planet and that the barvain purity act was created to lower mans testosterone levels to make then more sedated, grow man bobbs and go to sleep

what does growing man bobbs (boobs??) have to do with using galvanization?????

Aw, c'mon Ozone, have you never plumbed with galvanized nipples ?

squidd

[Tater]

Lets stay on topic

[retlaw]

how may people know that hops is the highest estrogen plant on the planet and that the barvain purity act was created to lower mans testosterone levels to make then more sedated, grow man bobbs and go to sleep

what does growing man bobbs (boobs??) have to do with using galvanization?????

your spell check is correct, sorry for the mistake,

the point is just because we do something does not make it correct,
you can drink all the spirits you want made from a galvi still and feel fine,
but does that mean in the future say 10 to 30 years from doing so that you will not have a health issues from it?

just like drinking beer, its our ignorance of not knowing all the facts that gives you a set of man boobs,