Joining the fun

[still_stirrin]

I'm another of the new hobby builders. I guess it's time to divulge what it looks like.

I put a "running gear" on the boiler...so I could move it when loaded. Also added a drain.

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This is a view of the power connection (1 of 2 on the boiler).

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A glimpse of the dual controller, with gages and stuff.

The power is regulated by a dual time constant Triac circuit. After going through the controller threads, I ordered the Triacs. In the end, I think the SSR circuit is more convenient because my circuit board got filled up with all the elements and point-to-point wiring. It's pretty crowded inside the box and that's why the fan is external as you can see.

On the 120V power I have, the current is just a touch over 9A wide open (on a 4.5kW LWD heater element). But I have 2 of them, hence the dual circuits. Each side runs from a separate 15A breaker in my shed.

[still_stirrin]

Here's a view of the boiler setup with the controller mounted on it.

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And with the pot still head mounted on it.

The shotgun isn't quite done yet, so I'm not quite ready to run it. But I hope to get some progress with the soldering this week.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Looks good, Ive got a couple casters laying around and have been toying adding them to the keg skirt as you have as well. Its very obvious you have done you reasearch, always great to see in guys with low post counts

[T-Pee]

SANITARY!!

tp

[still_stirrin]

Thanks WLR & TP for the looks. I have been lurking here for a while...lurnin' a lot.

I'm anxious to get it done so I can fire it up. I did check out the controller circuits though with the boiler full of water. The two orange cords are the 120V inputs. The black are 10/3 feeds to the heater elements. With the 30A twist lock connections I can switch to 220V power if I ever get it in the shed. Sure, the controller will need a could of updates (voltmeters and ammeters, for example). But the Triacs are already 240VAC/40A rated. But if I do get 220V power, I likely won't need 2 elements at the same time. Ya think?

[T-Pee]

Depends on the wattage.

tp

[White_Lightning_Rod]

I run 4500w on 240v and heat up on a 8% wash is around 50-60mins or so. If you had two you could run both to heat up and then just switch one off and use your controller on the other.

Like I said youve done your research and are on the right track so keep on keepn on

[still_stirrin]

Depends on the wattage.

tp

Sorry. I forgot to ID the elements for you: they're 240V 4.5kW LWD elements.

On 120V, that's 9.375A at 1125W. I run one each on separate 15A circuits to avoid overdraw on my shed wiring.

[Halfbaked]

Damn fine lookin rig. If you got the power keep the elements.

[still_stirrin]

Thanks halfbaked.

The wisdom here is amazing. I've learned so much from y'all. There's a world of knowledge and experience on this sight and every day I learn something more.

Thanks everybody for sharing.

[still_stirrin]

I owe an update to the design/build. The reflux head is done and has been cleaned and run through the paces. It performs very well, pulling 190 proof on the 39" marble-filled column. Very efficient at heat transfer too...concentric reflux condenser with a "coiled" tube-in-tube (Liebig) liquid product condenser, AND a vapor managed shotgun condenser (which can be moved to the pot still head when needed).

This combo head gives me plenty of flexibility in the run.

Here's some snaps of the reflux head and shotgun FYI.
ss

[Oatmeal]

Fantasticle! The vinyl tubing pc really expands the creative possibilities......

[Yummyrum]

Damn still_stirrin .

Thats a mighty fine head you have there . I don’t know how I ever missed that .

[Steve Broady]

I just followed the link in your signature, and I’m glad I did. That’s one impressive combo still head! I do have some questions, though..

First of all, what’s the reason for having both LM and VM? Do you find that each one works better for different products? Or was this an attempt to give yourself options, and you now use primarily one or the other?

Second, while I think I understand most of what’s going on there, I’m confused by the concentric reflux condenser. I’m having trouble understanding how it’s built and how it functions. Would you be willing to explain a little, please? Or point me in the right direction?

Finally, what’s the purpose of a product condenser on the LM side? I was under the impression that the output is already liquid, so is it just to help cool it off further?

Thanks in advance, and apologies if I’m asking stupid questions that have obvious answers.

[still_stirrin]

… First of all, what’s the reason for having both LM and VM?

The LM head is very good at compressing the heads, that is, it allows the higher volatiles to concentrate better in the liwuid collection cup. The LM operation is slower at production through the whole run, so I only use it at the start. Oh, I will use it at the very backend too to finish off cleaning out the last bit of product from the boiler. However, the %ABV will fall “like a brick”.

The VM head is what I collect most of the product from. It will maintain a steady purity with a high reflux ratio independent of coolant flow, so it is a “set and forget” operation. And as the backend approaches, the product flow rate will slow to almost a stop even as the purity stays high. That’s when I switch back to the LM control and squeeze out the last of the product.

… Do you find that each one works better for different products? Or was this an attempt to give yourself options, and you now use primarily one or the other?

I do use both during a run as noted. But the majority of the run the VM is managing the reflux (and purity of product). All I have to do is change collection jars.

… Second, while I think I understand most of what’s going on there, I’m confused by the concentric reflux condenser. I’m having trouble understanding how it’s built and how it functions. Would you be willing to explain a little, please? Or point me in the right direction?

The concentric is a “tube in a tube … in a tube”. The inner most tube is the “throat” where the vapor rises up through. It is also the inner wall of the liquid collection cup. Note, the liquid will spill over the top of the throat and drip back down to the packed column below when the collection cup is full. So, size of the collection cup will affect the amount of smearing you get from the liquid (condensate) outlet.

The outer 2 tubes make the water jacket and the inner wall of the water jacket is also the outer wall of the liquid collection cup. So, condensate will form on the water jacket’s inner wall and drip/flow back down into the collection cup. Again, as the cup fills (when full) the condensate will spill over the weir (throat tube) back into the column. This way it is the condensation rate that regulates the reflux ratio. And the liquid takeoff controls the amount of reflux (condensate returned to the column compared to vapor produced in the boiler).

When using the VM valve to control reflux, the vapor is divided between the product condenser and the reflux condenser (up through the throat tube), so the ratio is set by the position of the valve. Note here that the CCVM type of reflux heads will be affected somewhat by the flowrate of the condenser coolant as well as the coolant’s temperature, whereas a conventional valve control will not. The reflux ratio is only affected by the valve setting … a physical, geometrical division of the vapor flow path(s).

I’ll see if I can post an image that will help you visualize this mechanism.

… Finally, what’s the purpose of a product condenser on the LM side? I was under the impression that the output is already liquid, so is it just to help cool it off further?

It is simply a way to cool the condensate that I take off of the LM head. Understand that the liquid in the collection cup will be at the vapor temperature of the vapors rising up the throat. And while the condensate in the cup is a liquid, it will still be hot, not boiling, but hot.

This is because the physics of condensation removes energy from the vapors as it condenses on the water jacket’s inner wall as the condensate drips into the collection cup. So for this condensate to reboil (back into a vapor) enough energy would need to be added to the liquid to boil it. However, it will be at the boiling temperature (the saturation point where the “fluid” could exist as both a liquid and a vapor) … just like the temperature of a pan of boiling or simmering water on the stovetop is at 212*F and the “fluid” exists as a liquid (the water) and a vapor (the steam).

The liquid outlet coil is just a small Liebig type of condenser that cools the liquid condensate as I drain it from the collection cup. Since the condensate is already a liquid, it does not require much heat removal at all so the water jacket in this outlet does not need much coolant flow at all. The condensate is only cooling from 180*F to ambient (60-70*F). Initially, I had tried to simply allow for air cooling of that coil of copper tubing, but it wasn’t efficient enough to cool the condensate. So, that is why I added the water jacket (Liebig-style) to it. Again, it takes very little water flow to do the job for me. Also note that this condenser has no effect on the reflux ration of the stillhead. It is only a final cooler for the liquid product removed.

Sorry for the wordy explanations here. Just trying to help. And as I stated, I’ll post a graphic of the concentrics design to help you understand the mechanism more clearly.
ss

[Dancing4dan]

With a lot of help from Still_Stirrin I built a LM\VM combination still head like this one. Have been very happy with its performance.

My VM take off valve is smaller and I used a different reflux condenser.

The head is easy to fabricate with off the shelf parts.

[Steve Broady]

Thank you so much for the explanation, ss! That is wonderfully helpful. If/when I decide to move up from a pot still, this design is very inspiring and will likely be what I copy. The more I’ve read here, the more I’ve started to understand how some of these things work, but your explanation helped clear some things up.