How I make Brazed on Flanges

[Yummyrum]

I posted up my Flute build Here and got several members PM and ask me for more details about how I made my Flanges for Tri-clamps .
So I here is a blow by blow description .......for many it will be like telling you how to suck eggs....sorry its for beginners that may have little or no skills or confidence .And there will be many apparently pointless pics but to many ( including myself , pictures mean more than words ) Many of the techniques are what I picked up from other guys that posted their build threads.....Thank you

I will also say that this is what I did and it was using Australian copper which is measured by Outside Diameter (OD) whereas , America , England and New Zealand have copper that is measured in Internal Diameter (ID) .....so what I show may not work as is and you may need to experiment with different sizes to get it to fit .

So here we go .

Begin by wrapping some 1/4" copper around your 4" pipe ( you have to buy the annealed stuff...its soft and comes in a coil ......the hard stuff comes in straight lengths and must be annealed first )
Wind it as tight as you can then let the end go it will spring back a bit...that's OK ...then draw a line on it with a permanent marker . The extra size will ensure when we flatten them later that they fit OK .
Cut the rings on the lines with as finer saw you can as it will be easier ...I used a jewelers saw but a fine hacksaw will be fine too .

The ends of the rings will be rough from cutting so file off the rough bits and ensure the ends are reasonably parallel so they will touch without too much of a gap .
The ends need to be touching but the copper ring is springy so bend it past closed .....and it will spring back to just touching but not in line .
Bent it past being in line and it will spring back to touching .......hopefully ... you need to fiddle with this until it is perfect .

[Yummyrum]

To braze the ends up you need Mapp gas as butane ( the blue gas bottles don't have enough BTUs to get it hot enough ) you need Brazing rods and you need something fire proof to support it while you work ...I have blocks of Pumice .

Heat up the joint and when it is almost red hot apply the brazing rod . In a split second it will flash over the joint ...that's all you need ...if you keep holding it there you will end up with a big hard lump underneath that's going to be hard to remove.
Then continue around the ring with the torch chasing the red around . This will re-anneal it and make flattening it easier

So now you have your rings . they will be slightly bigger than the 4" so that when they are flattened , they will just touch it or be very close

Drill a 1.5mm hole in the ring ( I did mine opposite the joint ) it will let any air out later in the process .

[Yummyrum]

Flatten the ring...I just slowly work around it turning it upside down ever so often and check that it still fits on the 4" pipe . I use the back of my vice as an anvil . Get it as flat as you can but don't be to anal .

While doing this , one of my rings cracked at the joint ..... it doesn't matter .....For me it turned out to be too large anyway so I filed it back a bit and re-brazed it
Point here is if shit happens don't worry too much

So after all this bashing during flattening , the rings have "work hardened " and become very hard but also very bent .
We need them to be very flat so anneal them again and bash them flat between two flat boards...then look after them because they will bend fairly easily .

[Saltbush Bill]

Good helpfull post Yummy

[Yummyrum]

Cutting 4" pipe is a bastard . You just can't take to it with a hacksaw and expect a straight line ...it just ain't gonna happen .

So wrap a piece of paper around it where you want to cut and make sure the ends meet up ...bingo ...a straight line , then mark a line around it with permanent marker pen

Start following the line with a hacksaw , the finest blade makes it easier .Inch by inch work your way around the pipe scoring a line that follows the pen mark .
Keep going around and around making the groove deeper and deeper .

When the groove is almost through you can cut right through using the groove as a guide.

But be warned , this is what happened when I was too excited and thought the groove was big enough.....it wasn't and the saw went its own way

Assuming you have followed the line and got a nice straight cut , lanish the cut . If you have a large belt sander use that ...I don't so I find dragging it across a concrete garage floor in a Figure 8 motion will grind it to perfection .( I normally use two hands but needed one for the camera )

[apdb]

Great instructional. We do love pics.

Aaron

[Yummyrum]

Nice level module so no leaning still of Pizza .

Now its time to Braze the flange on .But first , braze is hard as all shit compared to solder .When you braze , it flashes (or Runs ) instantly on an copper around it ...which is fine structurally but if you want your still to look all shiny and nice , your gunna spend hours and hours filing and sanding to get the braze off .
SO....we do a little trick .

Clean the end we want to braze .I use Staino scrubbers but sand paper will be OK .
Paint some Liquid paper on the cleaned surface .( Liquid paper is the stuff you use to cover mistakes when your writing things in pen ...you get it at a stationary shop )
when its almost dry , run you thump nail around the end and claen off a nice straight line about 3-4mm

Time to Braze the rings to the module .I don't have an oxy-acetylene set so I make do with my Mapp gas . Mapp on its own doesn't stand a chance at getting the 4" hot enough as the heat radiates off it quicker than it is applied so I use a gas ring to supply the extra heat and the Mapp torch supplies heats to the area I want to Braze .

Now its time to set it up on the gas burner ...I use a single ring because it has "fingers" that hold stuff above the flame and the flame ring is about the same size as the 4" pipe .
Important ...the heat that comes off this is intense especially once you hit it with the Mapp torch ...it will shoot out the top of the module like a chimney.....don't put you head above the module ...
Don't do it on the floor for the above reason . Set it up on a bench or something you can get 360 deg around .

Get the ring and module set up as best you can so they are as level as possible ( you don't want to Braze it on crooked )
Crank up the gas burner ...it will take several minuates to get hot enough .
When the bit you shined up starts to go all pretty colours , its time to apply the Mapp torch

Start heating opposite the ring joint ....you don't want it to melt apart at this stage of the game .

[jb-texshine]

This would be the correct way to cut any type of pipe with a saw, be it a hacksaw or portaband.

[Yummyrum]

True JB

[Yummyrum]

You need to apply most of the heat to the module .....because its the biggest hunk of metal and will need the most heat .
As soon as the ring and module are cherry red apply your rod and work around to the join ...but stop just short of it .....or it will melt apart and guaranteed ping out of shape just when you don't need it to happen
Then go back to where you started and head back around the other way to the joint . At this point the ring will be attached so you can finish off the area around the ring joint

Let it cool down

Give it a wash and a scrub and see the wonder of Liquid paper ....It amazes me how it can withstand around 600 deg C , cling onto clean copper , stop braze in its tracks yet wipe off with your finger when it cools
You can see where the Braze stopped when it hit it but ran all over the ring . You could apply it to the ring too but I couldn't be bothered because a tri- clamp will cover it

[Yummyrum]

Thanks apdb and Salty .

Hope this helps others build there own stills . There is no one right way to do . Dig deep into the many build threads here ...there is gold among it

[apdb]

Does the liquid paper trick work with regular solder as well ( after flux of course)?

[Yummyrum]

Does the liquid paper trick work with regular solder as well ( after flux of course)?

Good question apdb , haven't tried it....soft solders so easy to file /sand off I never gave it a thought ....but there sure are times I wish I didn't have to .
I do know that Borax Flux that is used to braze copper to brass will stuff up soft solder ...but its pretty random where it goes when it gets hot .

[yakattack]

Thanks for the writeup yummy rum. Can you do me one favor. To help those of us with pipe that is measured in id what is the dimension from the edge of the pipe to the outside edge of the furrel. This will allow us to take a simple measurement to know if a specific size will work.

Thanks again
Yak

[still_stirrin]

Love the white out hack, yummyrum. It's kinda' like flour paste on the lip of a potstill. Once the solvent in the liquid paper evaporates, the remaining substance acts like a flux/braze dam. And when dry and cooled down, it scrapes right off.

Hey yak, if you go look at yummy's flute build thread you'll see that he makes his own custom clamps because these homemade ferrules are larger than the TC standards.
ss

[yakattack]

Ss he did but then bought them as he wasn't happy with them. So his flanges still work with the traditional triclamp. At least that's the impression I got.

Yak

[cob]

nice tutorial yummyrum.

yakattack; here are ferrel dfimensions . http://texasprocesstechnologies.com/store/page98.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Yummyrum]

Love the white out hack, yummyrum. It's kinda' like flour paste on the lip of a potstill. Once the solvent in the liquid paper evaporates, the remaining substance acts like a flux/braze dam. And when dry and cooled down, it scrapes right off.

Hey yak, if you go look at yummy's flute build thread you'll see that he makes his own custom clamps because these homemade ferrules are larger than the TC standards.
ss

Nice explanation on the Liquid paper SS ...that makes sense.
Re: the home made clamps were not part of the Flute build . They were 2" for the first Still I built ...it was a LM/VM reflux still and I made the clamps just to get it going as I didn't no where to buy them back then .

Thanks for the link on Tri-clamp sizes cob

Thanks for the vote of confidence Rocky.


So heres some more about clamps and ferrules

Please note : HD does not endorse any of the gasket materials I have shown here . I will be wrapping them in Teflon tape but for now left them uncovered for clarity while I am still finalizing this build

The inside of the Clamp is tapered so that when tightened it causes a shear action that forces the ferrules or flanges together . They are designed so when used with the supplied gasket the edge is about 2/3 in the clamp taper .
When we make our own flanges it is important that the diameter of the flange is as close to the spec as possible . The other important thing is to ensure that the distance ends up as close as possible to the original spec ( which seems to be around 8mm )

I made my flanges the same diameter as 4" ferrules....119mm ( I measure it at )

[Yummyrum]

The thickness of the gaskets and or plates must ensure a distance of as close to 8mm as you can to ensure the flanges will work as optimum as possible

Here I had a Flange to Ferule .Using the a standard tri-clamp gasket was close enough that it worked....but its boarderline to being not enough distance

Here I had two sections of Flanges to join ....I had to use extra thickness gaskets to get me enough distance close to 8mm

Here I had two flanges and a plate sandwiched between some thinner gaskets to get me to 8mm.......this ones still a bit under but when I wrap it in teflon it should be perfect

Hopefully this takes some of the guesswork out for some of you .I certainly which I knew this back when I was trying to build this

And please ensure that finished jobs use teflon wrapped gaskets

[T-Pee]

I use #6 solid copper wire. It can be found in the US as ground wire that goes from the panel to the ground rod of a home. Cut to fit, bend to suit and solder as required using a SS hose clamp to keep it snug while soldering. Basic soldering tehcniques using water soluable flux won't stick to the SS.

tp

[cuginosgrizzo]

Thank you Yummy, beautiful tutorial! Flanges for Dummies

[Brutal]

Awesome. Thanks for sharing this. I'm not really new, but have never brazed (successfully..) I really appreciate the attention to detail.

[LWTCS]

Nice work.
How many man hours to complete one of your flanges start to finish?

[frodo]

I like your method Yummyrum, also like the #6 ground wire of Tpees design

I poor boyed mine, bent the copper then pinged it with a hammer, on a 90 degree

[Yummyrum]

I use #6 solid copper wire. It can be found in the US as ground wire that goes from the panel to the ground rod of a home. Cut to fit, bend to suit and solder as required using a SS hose clamp to keep it snug while soldering. Basic soldering tehcniques using water soluable flux won't stick to the SS.

I like your method Yummyrum, also like the #6 ground wire of Tpees design

I poor boyed mine, bent the copper then pinged it with a hammer, on a 90 degree

flange 002.JPG

tp

Thanks T-Pee and frodo ...I really like the simplicity of the Soldered on easy flange .......I read it Here a few years ago and it inspired me to have a go at my own . Unfortunately solid copper wire isn't available in Australia so I ended up cobbling up what I did . I think there are a many ways to skin a cat and one should use what ever suits . ....incidentally frodo , I love you piened flanges , they look very solid , I suck with a hammer and appreciate your work

BTW , I chose to braze mine as I wanted to do a lot of soldering within the module later on and didn't want to have to worry about flanges melting off .....however in hindsight , simply wrapping a wet rag around them would have stopped that .

Thank you Yummy, beautiful tutorial! Flanges for Dummies

Thanks cugino . LOL ...seems that way but that was my intention ...As I said in OP , those that know what they are doing will think its "showing you how to suck eggs " .When I started out I had very little metalwork skills and only basic hand tools and certainly had no idea about joining up copper bits ...this is for beginners...I't to help and give confidence to anyone thinking about having ago

Nice work.
How many man hours to complete one of your flanges start to finish?

THanks Larry ....I hate to add up the man hours . Is it finacially viable to DIY ?.....I don't know ...but if your hobby is building things then its worth every minute of it I certainly can understand why some would simply prefer to buy ready made ....but that's not for me

Awesome. Thanks for sharing this.
I'm not really new, but have never brazed (successfully..) I really appreciate the attention to detail.

No worries Brutal .....there is something magic about Brazing stuff ...you should give it a go some day ...hope you got something from this .

Yummy your work always impresses me, thanks for sharing!

Worth it to me Rocky as in the beginning this place gave it to me ...and still does