4" ferrule

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rgreen2002
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4" ferrule

Post by rgreen2002 »

I have been soldering copper since I started this hobby a few years back. I have put together many a copper pipe. These parts may not be the most beautiful at times but they are leak free and functional. When I went to electric I had someone help install the 1.5 inch ferrules for the element and the drain plug. I did help with this so I was there to watch. Of course bellybusters thread and video is what spurs this question.




Right now I have a 2" TC ferrule on top of my keg and I have a 2x4" reducer I use to mount my flute. I am considering cutting this out and mounting a 4" TC to the keg using bellybusters method. Is a 4" ferrule to big for this? Would this be something better served via TIG/MIG?
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Bushman »

My 4" Ferrule is welded on. Couple things to consider:
1. At least on my keg the top varies in thickness so it is not a easy job.
2. Really important to take your time on this as the ferrule needs to be level as the column has to be vertical to prevent entrainment.

One thing I did right was to put in a drain valve for cleaning, I think this is important for cleaning especially when you convert to electric. I also like the 4" ferrule as it is easier to clean out the inside of the keg as I can reach my arm inside to wipe it down. The one change I would and still might make it to add a fill port.
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Badmotivator »

I soldered an 8" TC ferrule to the top of my keg and it has worked well. TIG welding will give you more peace of mind, knowing there's like zero chance of a failure, but mine has survived countless runs and lots of torque. A link to my boiler build is in my sig. Hope that helps.


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Re: 4" ferrule

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Bushman wrote:My 4" Ferrule is welded on. Couple things to consider:
1. At least on my keg the top varies in thickness so it is not a easy job.
2. Really important to take your time on this as the ferrule needs to be level as the column has to be vertical to prevent entrainment.

One thing I did right was to put in a drain valve for cleaning, I think this is important for cleaning especially when you convert to electric. I also like the 4" ferrule as it is easier to clean out the inside of the keg as I can reach my arm inside to wipe it down. The one change I would and still might make it to add a fill port.
Thanks Bushman... I also have a second as of yet unmolested keg and I am considering it instead. If so I would flip it over (like Badmo did below) and use the sanke for a drain. I like the idea of reaching in to clean and that is a reason (in my mind) to get it done "professionally". Then have all these things done at the same time.
Badmotivator wrote:I soldered an 8" TC ferrule to the top of my keg and it has worked well. TIG welding will give you more peace of mind, knowing there's like zero chance of a failure, but mine has survived countless runs and lots of torque. A link to my boiler build is in my sig. Hope that helps.
Badmo - I think that you mentioning the link is just a ploy for me to look at that beauty one more time! I'm on to your tricks! I couldn't tell from the build, probably because of the tears in my eyes as I marveled over it, but did you use the TIG or the silver solder/torch method for the 8"?
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Badmotivator »

rgreen2002 wrote:
Badmo - I think that you mentioning the link is just a ploy for me to look at that beauty one more time! I'm on to your tricks! I couldn't tell from the build, probably because of the tears in my eyes as I marveled over it, but did you use the TIG or the silver solder/torch method for the 8"?
Yup. Guilty. :D

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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Snackson »

Soldered plenty of fitting s including the 4" ferrule on my keg boiler. Works perfect if you take your time as done in the video above. That along with right flux and a nice clean hole.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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Snackson wrote:Soldered plenty of fitting s including the 4" ferrule on my keg boiler. Works perfect if you take your time as done in the video above. That along with right flux and a nice clean hole.
OK..I was going to go down the "nice clean hole" road but I will restrain myself.

I have heard time and again the Harris stay clean is the key to the whole thing working! Keeps the hole super clean (I couldn't resist just a little...) :D
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Re: 4" ferrule

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rgreen2002 wrote:
Snackson wrote:Soldered plenty of fitting s including the 4" ferrule on my keg boiler. Works perfect if you take your time as done in the video above. That along with right flux and a nice clean hole.
OK..I was going to go down the "nice clean hole" road but I will restrain myself.

I have heard time and again the Harris stay clean is the key to the whole thing working! Keeps the hole super clean (I couldn't resist just a little...) :D
As I clicked submit I had a chuckle to myself as well. Harris will clean the hole up before and after! Nasty stuff though, use plenty of ventilation and respirator if possible.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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Bushman wrote:My 4" Ferrule is welded on. Couple things to consider:
1. At least on my keg the top varies in thickness so it is not a easy job.
2. Really important to take your time on this as the ferrule needs to be level as the column has to be vertical to prevent entrainment.

One thing I did right was to put in a drain valve for cleaning, I think this is important for cleaning especially when you convert to electric. I also like the 4" ferrule as it is easier to clean out the inside of the keg as I can reach my arm inside to wipe it down. The one change I would and still might make it to add a fill port.
I could never put my hand through a 4" ferrule. So if considering this as a plus, I would test one first.
Soldering a 4" is no issue but it is easier on the bottom of the keg as you can solder first and drill it out after and not deal with the star and makes a great drain.

AC
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Re: 4" ferrule

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AC.. I never really even thought of soldering first and then making the hole.... I've never even seen that done. Outstanding!
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Oldvine Zin »

rgreen2002 wrote:AC.. I never really even thought of soldering first and then making the hole.... I've never even seen that done. Outstanding!
Look around, that's how most of us do the holes for sight glasses. Just make sure that you have or can get the proper size hole saw before you commit.
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by rgreen2002 »

Thanks OZ...always been a fan of your builds! I have looked at hundreds of builds here and of course built a few of my own but I cannot remember anywhere seeing someone weld first then drill the hole. I fully admit I am welding ignorant and that the only "welding" I have done is sweating copper(and if I remember correctly...this isn't actually "welding"... :mrgreen: ). I would guess they just did it and showed the after pics. Most of the pic and discussions I recall showed a hole first and then a weld (and that would only be when there were separate pics to do so).

I can't even remember it being mentioned before... this could of course be a complete oversight on my part.... oh and that there are about a few thousand threads I haven't gotten to....YET! :D
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Oops my bad - I just went through one of my build posts, and nowhere does it metion drilling after soldering. I did post a couple of pics that show the ferule soldered in place before drilling but didn't explain the prosedure :thumbdown: . I do think that it's mentioned somewhere in the endless flute thread

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Re: 4" ferrule

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Oldvine Zin wrote:
rgreen2002 wrote:AC.. I never really even thought of soldering first and then making the hole.... I've never even seen that done. Outstanding!
Look around, that's how most of us do the holes for sight glasses. Just make sure that you have or can get the proper size hole saw before you commit.
If you don't have the right size hole saw but do have an air die grinder, tungsten carbide grinding bits work wonders. I just cut mine somewhat close with a jigsaw and ground the rest out with the carbide bit. It eats stainless and suffers no damage.
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Hound Dog wrote: If you don't have the right size hole saw but do have an air die grinder, tungsten carbide grinding bits work wonders. I just cut mine somewhat close with a jigsaw and ground the rest out with the carbide bit. It eats stainless and suffers no damage.
+1 going a bit smaller is much better than trying one that is a tight fit. Learned that lesson the hard way :oops:
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Re: 4" ferrule

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Thanks for all the replies folks! Two last questions before I probably pull this trigger....

1. MAP preferred or just regular gas?
2. Long ferrule or regular(short)
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by pfshine »

I use mapp for most stuff. I soldered two kegs together no problem. As long as you aren't severely abusing the joints the are great. And I would always go with the long.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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+1^^^^
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by Oldvine Zin »

+2 on the longer ferule, you need the space for the tri-clamp and fingers to tighten it
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Re: 4" ferrule

Post by FreeMountainHermit »

I have two kegs with upper access ferrules. One is fitted with a 4 inch ferrule and the other with a 6 and I much prefer the larger opening. Just my 2 cents.

Pick the appropriate size cap for your keg/column combination and you're in business.

https://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clo ... rs/?page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Adds more $$$$ to the cost of the build but the benefits outweigh the addition expense.

Again, just my 2 cents.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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FreeMountainHermit wrote:I have two kegs with upper access ferrules. One is fitted with a 4 inch ferrule and the other with a 6 and I much prefer the larger opening. Just my 2 cents.

Pick the appropriate size cap for your keg/column combination and you're in business.

https://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clo ... rs/?page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Adds more $$$$ to the cost of the build but the benefits outweigh the addition expense.

Again, just my 2 cents.
Yup !!! I did an 8" and really like how easy it is to get inside to clean








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Re: 4" ferrule

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Thanks to everyone for the input! Exactly what I'm looking for. I'm going to take a look and hopefully make a decision this week so I can get started.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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Anyone in the Mid Atlantic area have mad TIG skills and interest to help a brother out?

That's help my decision immensely!!
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Re: 4" ferrule

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varocketry wrote:Anyone in the Mid Atlantic area have mad TIG skills and interest to help a brother out?

That's help my decision immensely!!
If you decide to move to the other coast I'd be happy to help you out.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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OK...OK.... for real... last questions.

I got the stay clean the other day and the 4 inch ferrules in the house. I am planning on doing this to my working keg since all the other solder ports are in place and I can do the unmolested keg at my leisure. Because of this everything has to go right...the first time. I have an angle grinder and was thinking of using it for the cut but I don't think I could set up a jig to do it. I will be cutting out the sanke and replacing it with the 4 inch so it gets a bit crowded there. Should I go the extra mile and pick up a 4" bimetal hole saw or will the angle grinder do the job? I also have a dremel and metal cut discs as well which might do the trick.

I feel like the star on the top of the keg will make it quite difficult to solder first and then drill out the hole (just because of the gaps the star creates) so I guess I will need to fit the ferrule into the hole prior to soldering.

The good news is once I figure this out.... I ordered 4 ferrules so I can have 2 kegs, both with fill ports!
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Re: 4" ferrule

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varocketry wrote:Anyone in the Mid Atlantic area have mad TIG skills and interest to help a brother out?

That's help my decision immensely!!

...or if anyone in the northeast :mrgreen:
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Re: 4" ferrule

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rgreen2002 wrote:OK...OK.... for real... last questions.

I got the stay clean the other day and the 4 inch ferrules in the house. I am planning on doing this to my working keg since all the other solder ports are in place and I can do the unmolested keg at my leisure. Because of this everything has to go right...the first time. I have an angle grinder and was thinking of using it for the cut but I don't think I could set up a jig to do it. I will be cutting out the sanke and replacing it with the 4 inch so it gets a bit crowded there. Should I go the extra mile and pick up a 4" bimetal hole saw or will the angle grinder do the job? I also have a dremel and metal cut discs as well which might do the trick.

I feel like the star on the top of the keg will make it quite difficult to solder first and then drill out the hole (just because of the gaps the star creates) so I guess I will need to fit the ferrule into the hole prior to soldering.

The good news is once I figure this out.... I ordered 4 ferrules so I can have 2 kegs, both with fill ports!
It will take forever with a dremel. Do you have an air compressor? I found it best to rough cut the hole in stainless (I used a cut off wheel) then solder the ferrule on and clean things up with a tungsten carbide grinding bit in my die grinder. The carbide bit eats stainless for lunch.
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Re: 4" ferrule

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No compressor.... it's on the list! :esad:
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Re: 4" ferrule

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rgreen2002 wrote:OK...OK.... for real... last questions.

I got the stay clean the other day and the 4 inch ferrules in the house. I am planning on doing this to my working keg since all the other solder ports are in place and I can do the unmolested keg at my leisure. Because of this everything has to go right...the first time. I have an angle grinder and was thinking of using it for the cut but I don't think I could set up a jig to do it. I will be cutting out the sanke and replacing it with the 4 inch so it gets a bit crowded there. Should I go the extra mile and pick up a 4" bimetal hole saw or will the angle grinder do the job? I also have a dremel and metal cut discs as well which might do the trick.

I feel like the star on the top of the keg will make it quite difficult to solder first and then drill out the hole (just because of the gaps the star creates) so I guess I will need to fit the ferrule into the hole prior to soldering.

The good news is once I figure this out.... I ordered 4 ferrules so I can have 2 kegs, both with fill ports!
Why are you not flipping the keg put the 4" there and have a 2" drain on the bottom. :shock:

AC
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Re: 4" ferrule

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acfixer69 wrote:
rgreen2002 wrote:

Why are you not flipping the keg put the 4" there and have a 2" drain on the bottom. :shock:

AC
Damn AC where were you a few years ago when I screwed up this keg! :lol:

Fair question my friend...and if I use the unmolested keg as a boiler I plan to do that. This keg already has ferrules for my drain and internal elements welded to it.
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