Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work better

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FuelMaker
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Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work better

Post by FuelMaker »

I just learned (the hard way) that there is a BIG difference between torch types when soldering stainless.

I was soldering on some small stainless angle scraps prior to my actual build and found out that:

(obvious)
1. Dont even bother trying to use a 1800 watt heat gun on stainless, it'll work on copper - but even then it's sloooooooooow.
2. Propane doesnt work worth a damn either, the solder melts and the flux turns brown but it just doesnt get the stainless hot enough to stick. Have to use MAPP gas.
(not so obvious)
3. A standard torch tip doesnt get very hot, even on MAPP. By standard I mean if you look in the end of your torch all you see is a open barrel or a tip with a series of small holes.
4. A swirl tip torch gets things a lot hotter faster, you can tell it's a swirl tip by looking in the end of the torch and if you see a series of vanes it's a swirl tip.

I used three types of torches finding this out. An 20+ year old bernzomatic open barrel torch, a not quite so old Mag torch 535, and a (just purchased) bernzomatic TS8000 swirl tip.

The difference the swirl tip made even with MAPP gas was dramatic, playing around with them on a piece of scrap sheet steel the two standards took a good min or so to turn it red while the swirl tip was twice as fast as my really old open barrel torch.

I also found out that a torch extension hose is the bomb, dunno why I've never had one before but it makes life a heck of a lot easier not having to maneuver the bottle around while soldering.

BTW, I was using Harris StayBrite and StayBrite8 with Harris Stayclean flux.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by Truckinbutch »

Thanks for sharing that . Another potential rock rolled out of new builder's path . :thumbup:
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by StillerBoy »

FuelMaker wrote:I used three types of torches finding this out. An 20+ year old bernzomatic open barrel torch, a not quite so old Mag torch 535, and a (just purchased) bernzomatic TS8000 swirl tip.
I have available seven different propane torch tips that I use when building, depending on the size and thickness of the job to be done.. the Bernzomatic TS tip work good heating ss and 3 and 4" copper, but not the right tip for smaller pipe.. other tip will work ok on ss, but are slower at the task.. a pencil tip works much better smaller work, and there are many different pencil tips available..

Yes when soldering the tip and tip size used and the size of solder does make a different in the application of solder.. and have soldered lots of fitting to keg with no issue using solder.. and Harris liquid flux is the good for some application.. and in a paste form for both copper and ss ,Superior 71 in paste form is very good also.. it work better in some application than Harris only because it will not burn/smoke like Harris does and washes cleanly with just dish soap..

Mars
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some different tip for propane application of solder
some different tip for propane application of solder
Last edited by StillerBoy on Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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FuelMaker
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by FuelMaker »

Truckinbutch wrote:Thanks for sharing that . Another potential rock rolled out of new builder's path . :thumbup:
I just thought it might help somebody else out, I'm a "Mr-uber-handyman" and I figured if I didnt know about it - it probably wasnt common knowledge. I think a "turbo torch" is a swirl tip too.

Or maybe everybody already knows this and I'm a day late and a dollar short, again..... I dunno about anybody else, but I'm 50 and I keep running into upgrades I'm not aware of in handyman-y techniques and tools I learned about in my 20s when we lived in a succession of fixer-uppers. Especially electrical and plumbing codes, holy crap those have gotten complicated in 30 years.
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by FuelMaker »

StillerBoy wrote: ,Superior 77 is very good also.. it work better in some application than Harris only because it will not burn/smoke like Harris does and washes cleanly with just dish soap..
Thanks, I'll get some and play around with that too. Appreciate it!

Edit: Found a Superior 71 flux for stainless, is that the one you meant?
Last edited by FuelMaker on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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StillerBoy
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by StillerBoy »

Some of the info on soldering I learn right here from a member's posting and pictures.. check out some of BigSwede postings on some of his work.. I'm still a long ways from matching his skills..

Mars

PS.. Here are some of his posting..
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=48224

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=48484
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by aircarbonarc »

I gave up completely using just MAP gas and I now use an oxy-fuel torch with a brazing tip to solder my stainless. It works a heck of alot faster and better. I'm going to start using straight propane as Acetelyne is pretty hot and will heat the stainless past that point of warping so it only takes a few seconds to get hot, it works wonders with heavy copper fittings
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StillerBoy
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by StillerBoy »

FuelMaker wrote:Found a Superior 71 flux for stainless, is that the one you meant?
Thanks for asking, and had to go and double check, good thing the name is still visable.. I made the error, somehow in the back of my mind I thought it was 77.. Yes it is the one, Superior 71 in paste, just notice that they also make it liquid, but have never tried it.. that flux is my go to flux now for the last year or so..

Mars
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by yakattack »

Just a FYI. Propane is hot enough to solder stainless. Works for both ss to ss and ss to cu. Just have to be patient and have to work it.
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by Pikey »

Thanks for this thread - I'm looking to stick a stainless neck and flange to the top of a copper pot and have been strugglingwith what heat source to use.

I have Propane and also Butane. I wondered about brazing and have seen a small number of Arc-brazing rods (I have Arc and both types of MiG) and also seen oxy acetylene brazing rods (but I no longer have oxy acetylene gas) - I also have a Carbon Arc setup, which adapts the Arc welder into "an oxy acetylene torch" (well no not really - but it's bloody hot ! )

So I went to Air products and I can get a "Hobby set" of oxy acetylene gas for £192 which includes a years rental and a single fill of each gas, but the bottles are TINY ! That seems a bit excessive and I started wondering about "oxy-propane" which would cost £72 for just the oxygen. The thing is I really used to love my oxy acetylene and you can't weld with oxy propane (Apparently the flame is too oxidizing)

Then I realised that my butane torch (Damn great plumber's torch over an inch dia ) may be a little more than it seems. [Some time last year I was repairing a propane fridge and tested it by taking the torch off the butane setup and gassing it up with that. Well the fridge lit all right, in fact it was roaring ! and froze ice cubes within 25 minutes whereas before it took 2-3 hours at least ! ]

Then I realised the regulator was a million years old an was adjustable ! - it has a "T" knob on top so you can turn the gas up and was belting out far more than the 22 mb or whatever.

SO I don't really know where I'm going from here and I'm thinking I need to cut up an old sink I have and just play for a bit with the two most likely torches, see what I can do. But thanks for the heads up on propane 8)

Has anyone tried oxy propane, or Carbon Arc ?
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Re: Lesson learned soldering stainless-swirl torches work be

Post by Swedish Pride »

yakattack wrote:Just a FYI. Propane is hot enough to solder stainless. Works for both ss to ss and ss to cu. Just have to be patient and have to work it.
yep, this is what i found too, although map helps cutting down the amount of patience needed.
For thin SS a 150w soldering iron is a good tool and only a tenner or so :)

@ Pikey
Copper wicks a lot of heat, but I would just try with what you have, if it does not work it's easy enough to clean up and have an other go
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