Planning my first keg still build!

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Plc Ryan
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Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

So since I started distilling I have only been running a 3 gallon stock pot. After plenty of trial and error and scaling up my ferments so I have enough stripping runs to make a full spirit run I feel as though I can make a half decent spirit. However the small yield and the amount of work it takes is getting ridiculous so it's finally time to upgrade. I have been trying to source a legal keg here in Ontario for a while and it has been difficult but I finally found one.

My plan for this build is to go simple right off the bat to save initial costs (paid a premium for the keg) and to save time since summer is my main running season and I want to get to it. I am planning on going simple pot still since I mainly do whisky and rum with the odd brandy adventure. To start I am thinking as simple as it gets: 2" coloumn tri-clamped to the sankey valve with a liebig. Building the still is the easy part for me so not to worried about that but just want to make sure when I order parts I get everything I need for the connections as hooking to a keg is new to me.

With this simple design I am thinking all I need is:

-2" copper easy flange
-2" tri-clamp
-2" PTFE or everlasting gasket

Am I missing anything obvious? I can clamp that easy flange directly to the sankey correct?

As for future mods my plans are to add a drain as well as an offset 4" ferrule on the top for cleaning and filling that I will cap (hopefully with a sight glass). Again doing this later to save a bit of money and time on the short term. Luckily for me I live relatively close to Moosemilk and we had a small meet last year and he has offered to help with any of my welding needs down the line. I am competent at soldering but haven't much experience welding.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by ShineRunner »

That's the minimum that you'd need, aside from unions or triclamps for breaking it down. What's your heat source? Planning to make your own flange, right?

I know you're in a rush, but consider that if you add the 4" and other ports later, you'll have to clean it yet again.

Other than that, I would highly recommend a bottom or at least low drain. I haven't tried tipping and dumping a keg that's half full of boiling liquid, but that just doesn't sound appealing to me. I just soldered a spud as low as possible and stuck a 1/2" ball valve in it. When I'm done, I open the valve and let it gravity drain while tearing everything else down. I have to tip the keg to get the last few gallons out, but that's easy. Even then, I wear gloves because the keg is so hot.

SR
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Plc Ryan
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

ShineRunner wrote:That's the minimum that you'd need, aside from unions or triclamps for breaking it down. What's your heat source? Planning to make your own flange, right?

I know you're in a rush, but consider that if you add the 4" and other ports later, you'll have to clean it yet again.

Other than that, I would highly recommend a bottom or at least low drain. I haven't tried tipping and dumping a keg that's half full of boiling liquid, but that just doesn't sound appealing to me. I just soldered a spud as low as possible and stuck a 1/2" ball valve in it. When I'm done, I open the valve and let it gravity drain while tearing everything else down. I have to tip the keg to get the last few gallons out, but that's easy. Even then, I wear gloves because the keg is so hot.

SR

I was actually planning on just ordering the flange when I order the tri-clamp. As for heat going to be going propane for now with a possible upgrade to electric when I make the rest of the upgrades.

I definitely hear what you are saying about adding those other parts now. However I am in an interesting predicament through the summer as I run my own business and live at it as well (hunting and fishing camp). So with that I never have time to do two stripping runs in a day so I can let it sit over night to cool before having to dump. Plus getting to Moosemilk is a four hour drive for my welding which is much easier to plan an overnight trip once I close up shop. The second cleaning run will suck but after a summer of runs a good cleaning wouldn't hurt anyway.

Thanks for the advice, I definitely understand that what I'm doing isn't the smartest route but it's what works best for me currently.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by ShineRunner »

If you're planning on ordering the flange, consider an all-in-one setup from eBay or wherever. They sell kits with 2 TC flanges, PTFE gasket, and clamp for about $8. Look for a USA seller for faster shipping. Just a thought.

Depending on your 2" pipe diameter, the flange should fit right inside. My pipe is DWV so it's a little loose. I took a single strand of thin wire and soldered that high on the flange as a shoulder and it works great to shim it up. I think heavier wall tubing can actually be too tight and require freezing the flange to get it to fit inside. YMMV.

SR

Edit: this is the last one I ordered. Got it 4 days later. Not sure about Canada. https://www.ebay.com/itm/282334187788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by ShineRunner »

Of course, that requires silver soldering. If you can solder though, you can silver solder. Just requires the correct flux and a good heat source, especially for 2".

SR
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by rgreen2002 »

I would order 2 flanges, here's why:
2" copper flange
2" copper flange
The 2" copper flange fits right into the sanke hole. This made it much easier mounting/removing with a tri-clamp and a much better seal, important if you are planning on using open flame for your heat source! I "coaxed it in" with a rubber mallet making sure it was as level as humanly possible. I don't recall freezing the flange or heating the sanke port but that cannot hurt. No leaks and no welding there at all... and I ran that thing for over 2 years!!

As for your question on letting the backset (or the low wines.. not sure which you were referring to) sit to cool...yes. they can wait. I frequently let mine cool overnight.

Noticed I'm posting with Shinerunner and I agree. Tipping and dumping a keg...especially one with a single 2-inch opening...NO way! Just awful. My biggest regret is not flipping my keg over and using the sanke port for drainage and opening a 4" hole for the flute. I understand your rush(and agree with Shine here...take a little time now so you don't PAY for it later!!) so at least put a drain in there...
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Plc Ryan
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

Shinerunner:

Thanks for the info on that flange kit definitely cheaper than anything I was looking at.
rgreen2002 wrote:I would order 2 flanges, here's why:
sanke 1.jpg
The 2" copper flange fits right into the sanke hole. This made it much easier mounting/removing with a tri-clamp and a much better seal, important if you are planning on using open flame for your heat source! I "coaxed it in" with a rubber mallet making sure it was as level as humanly possible. I don't recall freezing the flange or heating the sanke port but that cannot hurt. No leaks and no welding there at all... and I ran that thing for over 2 years!!

As for your question on letting the backset (or the low wines.. not sure which you were referring to) sit to cool...yes. they can wait. I frequently let mine cool overnight.

Noticed I'm posting with Shinerunner and I agree. Tipping and dumping a keg...especially one with a single 2-inch opening...NO way! Just awful. My biggest regret is not flipping my keg over and using the sanke port for drainage and opening a 4" hole for the flute. I understand your rush(and agree with Shine here...take a little time now so you don't PAY for it later!!) so at least put a drain in there...
Did you just friction fit that copper flange in or solder it as well? If just friction fit it is strong enough to support the still and not leak?

You guys are convincing me on the drain for sure. Especially if I can do it just by soldering it in. I haven't done stainless but I'm sure I can figure it out. My only concern would be a valve that can handle the heat that close to the heat source but I suppose the rubber grips on most ball valves come off.

Does anyone have any links they know of where I can get what I would need to solder in a drain? I'm assuming just a flange with threads and a thread in ball valve?
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by rgreen2002 »

That flange is friction fit without solder. It is a perfect fit! I ran a fully packed 48 inch Boka with a 8 in double wound condenser and a small liebig product condenser clamped on it with no issue at all. I had to coax the flange in with the rubber mallet a touch but it was easy. Be sure to make it as LEVEL as possible.... I got neurotic about it and was using the level and everything.

As for soldering the keg bellybuster has a great thread here and a good video:



Just HD google his name and his threads will show up

Also...DO THE DRAIN! You will be glad you did.
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Plc Ryan
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

Where did you get the copper flange rgreen? I have seen them on still dragon but so far that's it. And they don't have ptfe gaskets and I would like to do a one stop shop if possible.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Truckinbutch »

In agreement with the other guys . What you gain on the front end is what you will lose on the back . Incorporate a fill port and a drain on the getgo .
NPT weld spuds are available in stainless for drains . A fill port can be incorporated in the 2" takeoff . Those copper ferrules are available several places through Amazon or EBay .
Plan in some unions to make your build modular . Gives you more flexibility and it's easier to add a new component .
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I think a lot of people on here, especially newer ones, mistake good advice for a tongue lashing. And that is absolutely not the case. I would just like to say thank you to everyone who diligently made an effort to prevent me from doing something I would regret. Like not adding a drain spout. A lot of people need to remember that the experience of a number of seasoned people can't be replaced, and only saves you from saying "I should have listened, they were right" down the road.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

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Plc Ryan wrote:Where did you get the copper flange rgreen? I have seen them on still dragon but so far that's it. And they don't have ptfe gaskets and I would like to do a one stop shop if possible.

Sorry....work and all...

TB is correct, there are several places to pick them up. I got mine at amazon a while back for cheap. I notice that they are going up in price. Hmmmm.....demand increasing...?? :mrgreen:

I also agree with TB too... TAKE YOUR TIME. Read the mistakes/successes of others here so that you can limit your own. Especially with a boiler, once you make it...modifying it becomes tricky/impossible and you are stuck keeping it or buying more supplies.

As far as gaskets: https://www.glaciertanks.com/tri-clamp- ... skets.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . I've ordered from Glacier Tanks a ton of times.... great place and great prices.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Shine0n »

I now wish I had put a drain port in mine expecially since I'll be running 2 kegs.
I do wait till the following day to drain, I found out how quickly I can come out of a pair of pants 1 time only trying to be macho. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

Since I'm building a new modular still and I have some free time I think I'll silver braze a drain in my boiler and keg thumper to make life a bit easier and not have to wait to clean my stuff up. I don't sour mash so I'm not overly concerned about the hot backset but it will be nice to not have to dump a keg with 12-13 gallons twice.

I'm working out of town and time is a premium when at home so I might bring my 2 kegs with me and do it during the evening. That might speed my butt along and get her done.

Good luck and safe stillin,
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

rgreen2002 wrote:
Plc Ryan wrote:Where did you get the copper flange rgreen? I have seen them on still dragon but so far that's it. And they don't have ptfe gaskets and I would like to do a one stop shop if possible.

Sorry....work and all...

TB is correct, there are several places to pick them up. I got mine at amazon a while back for cheap. I notice that they are going up in price. Hmmmm.....demand increasing...?? :mrgreen:

I also agree with TB too... TAKE YOUR TIME. Read the mistakes/successes of others here so that you can limit your own. Especially with a boiler, once you make it...modifying it becomes tricky/impossible and you are stuck keeping it or buying more supplies.

As far as gaskets: https://www.glaciertanks.com/tri-clamp- ... skets.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . I've ordered from Glacier Tanks a ton of times.... great place and great prices.
Perfect thanks guys. I ended up ordering all my parts from Vision Stills. Trying to find somewhere that had everything I needed since I'm shipping up to Canada it seems cheaper to do it all in one order, and they carried everything I needed. Just ordered the copper I need from the closest plumbing supply and I have my keg opened up and cleaned out. Just waiting on my orders to come in to start my build, which leaves me with one last question.

I want to do a completely vertical liebig and was planning on 32" of 1" over 3/4. Just wondering if that is enough? I have done lots of searching and finding mixed reviews over whats better 1" over 3/4" or 3/4" over 1/2"? I run a 3/4" over 1/2" on my current small still but it has a smaller column and is limited in it's stripping ability.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Truckinbutch »

I have a 1" over 1/2" with a solid ground wire wrap in the water jacket nearly 4' long . I'm not much of a proponent of vertical condensers . I favor a 45 degree +/- angle . Never been able to overdrive it with heat on stripping runs .
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

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Truckinbutch wrote:I have a 1" over 1/2" with a solid ground wire wrap in the water jacket nearly 4' long . I'm not much of a proponent of vertical condensers . I favor a 45 degree +/- angle . Never been able to overdrive it with heat on stripping runs .
+1. :mrgreen:

I have a 3/4 over 1/2 but agree with the 45 degree angle and the ground wire for sure. You could also crimp the inner pipe at alternating angles to increase turblence and heat exchange. There's a calculator of the home page to help: http://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I've never used it but some folks have said to take the results with a grain of salt...HD search it!
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Truckinbutch »

I hammered a ribbon of solid copper wire to friction fit a twisted ribbon in the vapor path of my condenser . Helped SRD do the same when we made him a new condenser . He'a been happy with his too .
Coalminer built one similar and reports good results .
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

Well this is a little over due since I have already been doing some stripping runs with it but the new still is built and operational. Pretty happy with it so far it performs very well. I kind of like my still to be like an old friend a little beat up and with a good patina so I left some solder globs and didn't polish it or anything. That's just me though.
IMG_0070.JPG
The reason I built it so tall was because I wanted to try to run my condenser vertically. I usually have more height space than I do square footage and like how compact it is. However after reading everyone's input I wanted to be able to run it at a 45 if it didn't run well vertically so I put a union in the arm at the top so I can change its angle.
IMG_0071.JPG
I also put a union on my down spout so if I change the angle on my condenser I can take off the downspout and collect right out of the condenser. On my water run after it was done cleaning I turned on cooling water to see which angle worked best and I could knock down as much vapour as I could produce with my turkey fryer in either position so I have been running it vertically.

So far on the stripping runs I have done I can collect a quart in about 15 minutes and with my wash which was 5% starting abv my run started at about 60% abv.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

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Looks like you are well on your way .
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by Plc Ryan »

Thanks TB! And thanks to everyone else for the input on this build. Definitely a huge improvement from my 3 gallon pot. Plus not messing around with flour paste is a breeze. It's amazing how much faster I can set up and take down. And can strip 10 gallons in the time it took me to do 3 before. Part of that is because of a burner upgrade but going from a 1/2 inch to a 2 inch coloumn didn't hurt either. Looking forward to a summer of good runs and a higher yield. I was just starting to make a pretty quality whisky with my pot so I think making this jump will help considerably.
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

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She is lookin' good PLC.... get to them spirit runs now!
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Re: Planning my first keg still build!

Post by moosemilk »

Nice looking build there. The only thing I see is the garden hose use for hot water out . . . it probably won't be an issue for you since you are running from a hose with enough pressure, but if you ever decide to go to a pond pump recirculating system, that hose tends to collapse when it gets too warm and will make it harder for your pump to work efficiently. Nice job!
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