copper...

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alf
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copper...

Post by alf »

matos2017.jpg
here is my actual equipment, except 2 stainless boilers, 30 and 50 liters.

the little on the left, for tests, travels, little berries, absinthe and gin with the "T" short column wich can contain some plants or seeds...

the other parts are for the other boilers, wich can run as:
- pot still,
- wash still with preheated feeding with the little liebig mounted before the long one, feeding just under the taking "T", no scrubbers, no cuts. It allows to save time and heat. initial filling 5 liters, collect starts after 5 minutes, and is faster and i can strip 50l wash in a 50l keg...
- Vapour management ( i'm not satisfied with this management, i'm working on a LM one)
- continuous wash still, preheating wash with the short liebig, but in this case with a degasing chamber just before feeding, scrubbers in one meter stripping colums, no plate above feeding, and a continuous evacuation. no cuts... just stripping. I have still some development on this setup to run it without murphy, but when it works (sometimes during two hours), it's very efective. When murphy arrives, it's very effective too (paint, burn, sauna)
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: copper...

Post by Oldvine Zin »

That's a very elegant parrot design :thumbup: While a lot of folk here dislike using parrots, I think that they are a great learning tool. That said I stopped using one a few runs ago and I think that my cuts are cleaner now.

Still learning
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Mikey-moo
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Re: copper...

Post by Mikey-moo »

Not to be 'that guy' but I see a pressure cooker and what look like silicone gaskets and my alarm bells are ringing.
You know they're not safe right?
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: copper...

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Oldvine Zin wrote:That said I stopped using one a few runs ago and I think that my cuts are cleaner now.
Not trying to be rude or anything OZ , but how did a parrot help you to make cuts before you stopped using it ?
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Yummyrum
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Re: copper...

Post by Yummyrum »

Mikey-moo wrote:Not to be 'that guy' but I see a pressure cooker and what look like silicone gaskets and my alarm bells are ringing.
You know they're not safe right?
Don't panic Mikey , I'm sure its wrapped in fresh teflon tape each run :thumbup:

Alf , that's a cool collection of Wig-Wams for gooses bridles ......how did you know that was going to look exciting to us bunch of weirdo's :lol: :lol:
( incidentally does anyone know where that one come from :roll: :roll: :roll: post it here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=67120 )

Mate , would love to see pics of all the configurations you use it for :D
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alf
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Re: copper...

Post by alf »

I'm new here, so your comments make me wonder ...

@ Oldvine. So you do not use an alcohometer an parrot to make the cuts. I use it to know, depending on the product, when the risk of coming out of the heart comes. Then I am vigilant and I use my nose and taste. And at the end to know when to stop. And for products like potcheen when to do cuts on feints between medium and heavy...
How do you do without help? You taste every three minutes? And at the end you cut the heater when the boiler is empty? Or do you have a single recipe that you cut to the collected volumes?

@Mickey. Food silicone seals are practical. Between my boiler which is not on the picture and the copper hat, I made a joint with flour and water, but the cleaning is complicated. Therefore silicone. The PTFE is not flexible enough here, and the return on its non-toxicity is as blurry as with the silicone ... And after all, nothing is very good for health in this hobby. But thanks for the caveat :)

@yummy. Yes, beautiful collection of DIY more or less eficaces. This is certainly due to my curiosity. Try to understand. I do not know how to do better, in a country where our hobby is forbidden. But in all these shit, it must be acknowledged that most do the job, and that what I spell in the end is quite drinkable. Even for my friends ;). Maybe one day I will do not more than one or two types of products, I will know exactly how to make them and then I will invest in the adapted pot ... with a little backward as to the reasons for my choices.
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Re: copper...

Post by OtisT »

Cool stuff. Looks like a Distillers Lego Set. :-)

I also like the parrot design ( the one on the right.). It's pretty and it looks like it uses a lot less copper than most parrots do. Nice!

What is the big long glass/plastic pipe for? I also see a short final/plastic tube on the right. I hope they are for cooling water and not product. I know materials are hard to find in many places, but I do feel the need to warn a self proclaimed noob against using such materials if possible. High proof and plastic don't mix. Nothing personal. Just a standard safety warning.

Best of luck.
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Mikey-moo
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Re: copper...

Post by Mikey-moo »

alf wrote:@Mickey. Food silicone seals are practical. Between my boiler which is not on the picture and the copper hat, I made a joint with flour and water, but the cleaning is complicated. Therefore silicone. The PTFE is not flexible enough here, and the return on its non-toxicity is as blurry as with the silicone ... And after all, nothing is very good for health in this hobby. But thanks for the caveat :)
I call BS on that right there.

PTFE tape is widely available. It is flexible, easy clean and proven to be safe. Silicone has all sorts of plasticiser chemicals in it just waiting to leach out into your booze. You're not making food, your making high temperature alcohol vapour, so 'food safe' has little to do with it.

It's your still, so do what you like, take the easy short cut. Only you have to drink it. But don't try to argue that silicone is known to be safe or that PTFE is somehow an unknown quantity, when it's just not true.
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If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
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alf
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Re: copper...

Post by alf »

its two silicon tubes ;)
the short one is a coupling between two liebigs when i use the short one to heat wash before feeding, before cooling liquid with the long one.
the long is a degazing chamber for the preheated wash.
injection mout.jpg
Using continuous strip column i have equilibrium disturbs when i feed with malt wash, witch lost his CO2. With this long tube and some scrubbers in it, i only feed with 65/70°C wash. No gaz. It works better. And the liquid stay (near always) in the bottom of the degazing chamber, in copper. the lenght is due to the near always...

the parrot..
porteprouvette10.jpg
the sphere was just a test of my ability to make it ...
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: copper...

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Oldvine Zin wrote:That said I stopped using one a few runs ago and I think that my cuts are cleaner now.
Not trying to be rude or anything OZ , but how did a parrot help you to make cuts before you stopped using it ?
Not rude at all Saltbush.
I never used my parrot for cuts, used it only to monitor what my still was outputting (and I thought that it looked cool :crazy: ). Now that know how to drive my stills I no longer feel the need to know what the ABV at every step. That said on a spirit run I collect in small jars, now without the smearing that I had with the parrot. I do my cuts by smell and taste.

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alf
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Re: copper...

Post by alf »

Oldvine Zin wrote:
Saltbush Bill wrote:
Oldvine Zin wrote:I do my cuts by smell and taste.
like most of us ;)
but no help for when you have to start smelling and tasting... no help, alcoometer or rookies stuff thermometer? you stay aware of tails smells all the time?
just sayin
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Re: copper...

Post by just sayin »

Alf, we would appreciate a picture of your continuous still assembled with your explanation of exactly how it functions. Glad you join our little get together here!
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Yummyrum
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Re: copper...

Post by Yummyrum »

just sayin wrote:Alf, we would appreciate a picture of your continuous still assembled with your explanation of exactly how it functions.
+1 there is bugger all info on them around here , only discouragement so it would be a breathe of fresh air to see a working
one .
Alf , what typical feed rates and strip rate are you getting ? Whats your wash ABV and strip ABV ?
How are you controlling feed rate ?
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: copper...

Post by Oldvine Zin »

alf wrote: you stay aware of tails smells all the time?
I collect in small jars and do the smells and tastes the day after. Sometimes I pour jars down the drain.

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alf
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Re: copper...

Post by alf »

ok oldvine ;)
i collect heads and tails like you; but when i have no doubt that i'm in heart, i put a big one, take a book or brew some malt, and let it run some hours.


yummy, i think i have no picture on the continuous working.
I have a little video, but it's too big.
only this sketch...
continu.pdf
(77.97 KiB) Downloaded 123 times
i feed the column a few centimeters under the top, with 65-75°C preheated wash, i't just a wash still, no cuts.
It is far much easier to separate the heads and tails during batch of spirit run.
2" copper column, 1 meter long, stainless steel scrubbers ( hetp 7 under 1000W if i recall )
I only tested it with sugar wash, i'm afraid of fouling with grain...
I feed around 15-20l/h, wash around 10%, and it's producing about 4-5l/h of distillate.
Spend wines are under 1%.
No reflux condenser.

for feeding and system controls, i use an arduino, linear pot for manual control of a pwm membrane pump, with a flowmeter online and 3 ds18b20...
but i do not drive the system according to the chinese cheap flowmeter.
I try to stabilise the temperature in the column, 10 centimeters under feeding...
I'ts not easy, lot ot lag and inertia. I've only tested 2 times pid control, lol. Bad idea :wtf:

Sometimes it works well. But after a while, a parameter that I was not confronted with during the previous test eventually brought the system out of the way ...
Then I close the drain valve, and I continue the preheated feed, pump to max, until the boiler is full, the exhaustion is done partly during the filling, then finally in boiler ...
Next season i will retry :crazy:
I have a small application generator that allows me to save the parameters and view the runs.
Here is a typical run record.
continu.jpg
During the first two hours, it did not work too badly.
Then, this time, the drain siphoned the boiler, I had to close the drain valve and finish in classic preheated stripping run.
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Re: copper...

Post by Yummyrum »

Thanks Alf , thats awesome . I've heard mention of Degassers before but that is the first time I have seen a practical one . At 65-75 DegC I would think that there would be a lot of vapour escaping , is there much visible vapour in the silicon hose ? Would a small condenser in it prevent any possible vented alcohol ?

Continuous strippers have always interested me as they use them as Rum strippers here in Aussie .It is on my to do list .Good luck with it :thumbup:
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alf
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Re: copper...

Post by alf »

preheated stripper (by batch, not continuous) works perfectly. using the same pump or another one and some struggles in the line. It's not as fun, but its easy to manage, energy saving, fast and it allows to strip 50-55 liters of grain or sugar wash in my 50 l boiler.
When you have fed 40 liters, 10 or 15 have already been collected, making some empty space. I use it nearly every time for stripping.
and then, when boiler is full, it take a short time (i"m working on reducing it by increasing preheater power) to spent it. And you can you refill the 5 starting liters in a warm boiler... so 30l @ 38-45% low wines on a 2" column in 7 hours... not to bad for a newbie like me

There is a lot of vapour during heating. With preheat batch, foam entering the column without scrubbers don't matter. The pressure equilibrium stay stable.
So not degasing system.

With the same amount of gas foaming wash in continuous stripper, the balance becomes fragile, and added to the draining of the boiler that fluctuates for little and irregular flow of the Chinese pump according to the level of the wash in the reserve ...It ends up in a spin
So degasing system. This one (my second try) works not to bad.The escaping gas is mainly carbon dioxide gas (tested with a lighter after collection :lol: ), it does not condense at room temperature, even in winter (5 ° C). At the first try I had put a long copper tube at the end of the silicone tube, but I did not observe reflux at its low end, so I do not put it any more.
Just a piece of stainless steel plug inserted at the end to limit the sudden variations of pressure.

still sorry for my english. half mine, half google one, or close :sick:
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Re: copper...

Post by just sayin »

Thanks Alf! Very interesting.
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Re: copper...

Post by Coyotey »

That's not a parrot, it's pelican!! What a cool design - nice work!!
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Kareltje
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Re: copper...

Post by Kareltje »

What a beautiful parrot! Like two flowers together.

I would like to see some of your stills working. To see the seperate parts alongside each other gives no clue about the construction of the working equipment.

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