Ebay finds

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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Pikey » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:53 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
.....As I've read through your thread, you have been given excellent advice and support through this venture. Thanks to all the respondants to blackmoor's questions. You've made it easy for him to succeed.


Yes he's had great support ss - but he has been an excellent student. He went and found his own produce and just asked for our opinions on it. When it became apparent there were issues, he went and found this nice little Polish builder of decent stills (NOT "Coolant modified") 8) and has got himself a bargain, which should make good product for a long while.

I don't suppose the import costs to the states would make it worth the effort ? Shame really.

still_stirrin wrote:Once again, you have done well to follow the guidance given here. As a corallary, I suggest reading the Spoon Feed thread and all it's attached links to further learn the "secrets" of this hobby.

Stay safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss


I'm sure he will do "The necessary" mate - Bright lad with an attention span :thumbup:
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:45 am

So got the gaskets ptfe'd :) they look fine when in place.

IMG_20170910_142226_01-682x713.jpg


Got the still now running in vinegar / water solution:

IMG_20170910_143224-870x1160-435x580.jpg


When running the turbo wash, should i put some pieces of coffe cup on the bottom of the boiler? I had those on the airstill as to keep the wash from foaming/bublimg to the cooler line...

Steaming like mad!

IMG_20170910_150223-800x600_crop_800x138.jpg
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:18 am

So cleaning run done. Getting ready to do clean ethanol run.

8 litres of turbo wash, added 6 litres of water so the element is under fluid:

IMG_20170910_165123-600x800_crop_600x542.jpg


10 copper packing in 10 cm 5,5 cm rolls :

IMG_20170910_171518_crop_661x767.jpg


Whole thing ready to go. Note the copper takeoff pipe. Wih me luck :)

IMG_20170910_170731-600x800.jpg


After this run, and subseguent runs, is it okay to leave the packing in and just rinse it after and before runs? How do you clean boiler and column between runs?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:51 am

That looks fine.. :thumbup:

You didn't have the packing in during the cleaning run, did you..?
I just flush my still with water after each run and that's it.
Unless you've been running something that discolors the inside, there is no need to do more than a quick water rinse.
However, as you run with copper for packing material, it's important to let the packing dry out after each run..!
if you fail to do so, the packing will turn green in no time. Obviously, you don't want to destroy the packing and have green oxide leaching into your charge.
The packing material will change color as it does its job. So from time to time, take it out and soak it in some hot vinegar...it will look like new again.
When running the turbo wash, should i put some pieces of coffe cup on the bottom of the boiler?

You mean as boiling stones..? To be honest, I've never used any, regardless of what I had in there.
When the still is charged with something prone to foaming, just don't fill so much in there. Never overfill your boiler..! 75-80% of the space should be maximum.

Edit: Btw...insulating the boiler and column, will aid stability and reduce heating costs/heat-up time.
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Pikey » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:17 am

All the best Blackamoor :thumbup:
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:48 am

Little diary forming, all temperature are celcius, all measures in milli litres (ml). Editing as I go.

Start, boiler and cooler temp at 18. Both sockets to power, takeoff valve shut. cooler full but not running water.

20 min later, cooler temp rapidly rises to 84,8, max cooling power on, take other heater off (white socket as per manufacturers intructions). Takeoff closed. As per distiller manufacturers info, equilibrium should be 77,5, so wait.

40 minutes waiting (60 min total), temperature won't change from 79,7. Maybe because the boiler is only half full? Start to take off, 3-4 drops to second. Foreshots/heads (how much??)

12 min later (1h 12 min total) 100 ml collected, cooler temp risen to 80, then dropped to 79,8, increase take off to 6-8 drops /second.

13 min later (1h 25 min total) 230 ml collected, cooler temp 80,4 c

28 min later, (1h 43 min total) 500 ml collected, cooler temp 81,2

11 min later (1h 54 min total) 650 ml collected, cooler temp 84. Shutdown of heater, collect all thats left in cooler bend. 60 ml at the cooler bend left, total 720 ml.

Considering the real run, how should I take the heads/foreshots out? One member here says that take the heads right when the cooler jumps to temp. Others say that wait till equilibrium ( 30-60 min) and ater that take them. And considering I have 21 litres of turbo wash ( 6kg sugar, about 15 % ABV) how much should I take as heads/fores? and how much is possible as hearts?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:27 pm

Congrats Blackmoor... you just made your own booze... :thumbup:

Now for your run so far:

3-4 drips per second is a little too fast for the foreshots.
The thermometer could be slightly off, so don't count on the exact temperature given by the seller.
Again, insulation will help your still to a stable run (and bring down time + costs).
As it is now, a slight draft from an open window can bring it out of equilibrium.
You can feel and hear it when the column starts to stabilize.
Furthermore, the temperature won't fluctuate...that's a sure sign that everything is "sorted out" in there and the fractions are stacked as they should.
That's the point when you start to take the foreshots.
Now, every still is different..however, to give you something to compare...I let mine stabilize for 20 min. or so. That should do it for yours too.
The amount of foreshots and heads relate directly to your ferment. A crappy ferment = more unwanted components.
It's also the reason why no one in this forum recommends that turbo yeast crap unless it used for a sacrificial run.
So...how much foreshots and head should you remove..? Rule of thumb..if it smells like crap, it is crap.
A guesstimate would be 100 -150 ml of foreshots for a still with the boiler size you have, then you're in the heads collection.
Here is an idea for insulating your column. I use this stuff on my rig too (see picture below).
If you can get your hands on the suitable inside diameter, you can cut a strip out with a sharpie and use cable ties to fasten it to the column (tape will do too).
The plumbers use it for pipe insulation, so it's safe to use on the column regarding temperatures.
4182 9043864_1.jpg
Foam insulation for hot water piping
4182 9043864_1.jpg (19.8 KiB) Viewed 267 times
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:10 pm

Got some armaflex pipe insulator (76 mm, too wide but i can cut a portion out of it to make it fit snuggly around the column). Should I just insulate the column portion, or keep insulating at the bend/cooler? Column tube is 1 meter (filled to the brim with copper rolls, after that is a joint between column and the bend. there is 2 cm of pipe, as extra column before the bend happens, should I try to insulate that as well? The cooler portion does not need to be insulated I gather, its is better to keep it as cool as possible?

I have about 46 litres of turbo wash left, which are going to be the first batch. Was thinking of getting some glass jars, 250 ml each, and after getting foreshots/heads out ( should 300 ml be okay, on the safe side?) putting the rest on the jars to see where it starts to get to tails. Hopefully local store has those jars :)

I have stockpiled the turbo, I have 10 pouches of that stuff left. Is there anyway to use them, as in dropping the sugar content in wash ( I always have used half of the turbo bag on 23 litres of wash, not whole turbo bag) t make semi good product, which does not require carbon filtering?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:34 am

So the first real run, insulated the column, minus the cooler bend. Going strong right now:

Still took 41 min to get to temp, 83 boiler, 82,7 cooler.

22 min after, start taking fores/heads, 2-3 drops/second. Cooling water 2 min / 1 litre.

Collected 250 ml fores/heads for one hour. then start to collect hearts in 150 ml jars.

After 500 ml took a sample to a alc meter, 92 %, so I'm happy :)

Where could I get the distillers parrot for reasonable price with shipping? Anyone make those in EU?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:45 am

Great..! That will do.
Just insulate the column.
The little heat dissipation from the last 20 mm won't do any significant difference or throw the column out of equilibrium.
Of course, you shouldn't insulate the cooler...that would be counter productive, you don't want the heat to stay in there it has to go.
Excellent..to collect in small jars makes judging the cut points easier...!
Well, as I wrote the amount of foreshots and heads depends on your ferment and how it was fermented (temperatures + time).
So it's hard to say if 300 ml would do it. However, I'd estimate it will be enough.
Remember, the foreshots is the only fraction from a run you'll toss. The heads and feints can be redistilled by adding them into the next stripping run.
Properly distilled spirits need no carbon filtering...IMHO.
If you decide to use the turbo, you'll end up with an inferior product with a lot more heads.
I don't think you'll produce to run your lawn mower on the stuff, cause then the heads don't matter.. :angel: :mrgreen:

Edit: Posted while Blackmoor did..
Well, a parrot will also add to smearing if used in a spirit run...for the stripping run, it can be an ok tool..
however, the there are different opinions on that subject in here..so
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:57 am

In your opinion, what would be the best sugar/beginner friendly wash for me? Keeping in mind that where I live there is no beer/wine makers shops. Everything (except sugar) must be ordered, apart if can be found at pharmacy maybe?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:51 am

A simple bird watchers (tomato paste wash) with plain bakers yeast. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5018
I have modified the recipe for my needs and I must say it's the cheapest, reliable and repeatable recipe for a neutral.
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:45 pm

So first run done. Got 3400 millilitres in 150 ml and 300 ml jars, between 86 % and 92 %. Total collected (foreshots and heads included) 3650 ml. Would have put out more tails, but it's getting late and tomorrow have to go to work.

Let them air out for day or two and then smell IF they need to be carboned. If so, should i just dilute them to 35 %before carboning?
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:58 pm

I collect down to 20 % ABV. The time and energy spent wouldn't justify getting what is left in the boiler.
Just cover the jars with some cloth or a coffee filter and let them sit over night if you let'em air out more than that you'll lose more product.
Arhhh...seems like you're still hooked on that carbon filtering, huh..? :think:
For trying to determine the cut, it is an advantage to dilute it below normal drinking strength (40% ABV),as you will get all the details by doing so.
I aim for 25-30 % or so..that will give me a better judgment of my product.
If you can't live without carbon filtering, don't dilute it lower than normal drinking strength :) ..unless you plan to throw it in the still again..
Oh...I almost forgot a word of caution here.. IF you want to filter it, the same rule for synthetics applies as for the still equipment..!
So NO plastic funnel..or stuff like that.
I've bought myself some funnels on E-bay...no chineesium steel, but genuine stainless. The come quite handy for a lot of purposes.
Last edited by Danespirit on Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:02 pm

Only reason to carbon is the turbo...I took some samples and altough it is worlds apart from the airstill, I still think I can taste that turbo yeast somehow...but maybe tomorrow tells a different tale :)

Clean the still and go to bed. Thanks for sticking with me :D
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Danespirit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:03 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Pikey » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:10 pm

Well done bm 8) 3400 ml @90% is a great first run !

Giant steps from that little airstill eh ? :)
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:42 pm

I made 5 litres of stuff just about 29 % with the airstill for so long. and that took 2 hours / 4,5 litre batch so 10-12 hours per batch. Then coaling it. So yes, baby steps are behind :D

The cooling water consumption is a little worry now, that's the only benefit in the airstill. it took with cleaning the still, 400 litre of water. Here water costs about 6 USD per 1000 litre. Of course that's not earth shattering in cost, but the water goes so slow to the still that can it break the tap? Tap made a little sound whole time, like when you just crack it open a little, it makes a his sound...can that damage the tap o rings or something...And one should not waste...

I have a computer liquid cooler left behind from co workers ex computer. It is a one meter tower with 4 12 v cooling fans...could I use that as a closed loop circuit, I don' t use that for anything else...
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:32 am

So diluted the product. Got 5,2 litre of 39 % stuff, and 800ml tails/heads for next batch. Should I just dump it with the another turbo?

About the birdwatcher wash, I can get everything ordered, but the yeast is not so clear. Can I use this household yeast:

Image

That i can get from every store. It is not dry, it is fresh yeast. That is a 50 gram pack of yeast.
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby Swedish Pride » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:19 am

yep that will do nicely, just disolve it as you would when baking.
50g of fresh yeast is about 14g of dried yeast
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Re: Ebay finds

Postby blackmoor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:03 pm

So when thinking of birdwatchers recipe:

My recipe for an 80 liter wash. Ingredients as follows:

3 cups tomato paste

Juice 3 lemons

Approx. 18 kg sugar

225 grams fresh regular bakers yeast. Buy in bulk at any good health food store.

for 24 litre batch I would need:

1 cup of tomato paste (would puree suffice, in tin can?)

juice from one lemon.

5 kg sugar

60 grams of yeast ( so 1 and 1/5 cube of fresh yeast)?

Does that sound about right? No epsom or anything else?

I have a german density meter (dechslemeter 20 C) it has from top to bottom black 10, 0, 10, 20, 30...120. What is the 1.09 SG on that meter? Can I measure it by just floating the meter on the wash or take a samble of the wash? With turbos I have never done this shame to admit...
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