Easy flange

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MashMan

Re: Easy flange

Post by MashMan »

An easy alternative is to tig weld (or get someone to weld it for you) a stainless triclover ferule to your copper column (will post a pic if someone can tell me how to do that) for those in OZ a great supplier is Midway Metals, they have an office in all states, have their catalogue online and are easy to deal with, 2" Triclover clamp $10.59, 2" Triclover ferrule $10.30 +gst + freight, I use a silicone seal from them that has a lip on the outside edge that really hepls locate your column on a std keg just cut the "0" ring section on that side of with a sharp razor blade.

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Re: Easy flange

Post by Hawke »

I ended up with some short pieces of heavy guage 2" copper.
Drilled a 2 1/8" hole through a piece of hardwood 4x4, then sliced it down the center.
By anealling the end of the pipe, then clamping it into the block with the vise, I was able to make the flange without any solder.
Guess I should make one up and take some pics.
Hell, make up a dozen and sell 'em. Would only need to be 3 or 4 inches long, then they could be joined to any column/riser with a standard sweat fitting.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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Husker
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Husker »

Hawke wrote:Would only need to be 3 or 4 inches long, then they could be joined to any column/riser with a standard sweat fitting.
Cut them to about 2", then solder on a sweat 2" connector, but leave the top open. That way, you can slip in a unmodified 2" pipe head (column, pot head, etc), into the top. Takes just a daub of flour paste, and it is sealed up good.

That way, you have a flange, and you can choose a still head of your liking.

If done this way, one thing I would recommend (from experience), is to get a block of wood like a 3.5" square cut off from a 2X4, and get the proper sized hole saw (where the blade is the same size as your still head's pipe), and drill a hole 'into' the block, but not all the way through. That way, you can slide this cut part onto the end of the still head when not in use, and it will NEVER get bent (fasten the block so it does not slide off). I dropped a still head (my pot head), and bent that 'open' end. Took a while to get it back to perfect round. I will not make that mistake again.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by RumBull »

Lurch wrote:the one thing that was not asked or mentioned in this tread, is where to purchase the tri clamps?
Try ebay.
I am lucky enough to have a scrap yard in town that has a stainless section that always has tri clamps and sanitary fittings. You can buy it by the pound.
7.5 gal and 15.5 gal SS keg with copper Super Sankey Scotch Style Still head.http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =16&t=8550
I make Rum and um... Rum
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Hawke »

You can get the tri-clamps from Mile-Hi, McMaster-Carr and St.Pat's.
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Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Aces High »

My local scrappy charges $5 a kilo for copper. The last time i was there I got a 2" x 2.5m piece, plus some other copper bits and pieces for $10... He's definitely rippin you Lurch.

a new 2" x 2 m piece in Australia is about $80 (tradesman price)... i hate getting ripped off by these people that think we dont know any better.

As for the flanges, I've always brazed the ferrule fitting onto a joiner and then braze that onto the column. I use a mapp torch and hard solder and I have never had any problems. Make sure you get the copper nice and hot before putting any heat to the stainless as the stainless takes no time at all to heat up. The last 2" ferrule I bought was $9, so I see this as a much better investment than trying to make my own, and I know when i finish that its rock solid.

I know Minime manages to sweat the tri clover ferrule straight onto the pipe.. no soldering, no joiner... i tried this and ended up destroying the end of the pipe.. Although I was using the "pursuader" (read wooden mallet) at the time. one day i'd love him to show me how he does that :?
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Dnderhead »

I thank what your referring to is a shrink fitting? heat outside fitting /cool inside peace.quickly put pieces together, when both are cooled it will be tight.
this has to be done in one swift move.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Aces High »

yep, thats the one... quite a tricky process.. one of these days i'll master it
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Hawke »

One of my early jobs was doing some home assymbley work. (Push rod housings for air cooled VW/Porsch engines). Dipped the end of the tube in liquid nitrogen, then dropped it into the flange. Once it comes back up to temperature, there was no way to get it apart, unless you cut the flange.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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Re: Easy flange

Post by cob »

bought copper today 2 5/8" x 27 1/2" hard pipe. weighed 5 pounds @ $2.50/ pound + tax came to 13.54. recycler pays $1.92 for it and sells for $2.50 thats fair. the commodity close price saturday was $2.62 u.s. nyse. on the clover clamp do you just replace the o-ring with cork? on the flange i have a bead roller and will try to beat an all copper flange (think double flair fittings) from an exterior bead. could mabe be done with a dull chisel and a groove in a block of wood or steel. poeple been beating copper into submission for centurys. solder still makes me nervous no matter who or how many say it's safe. yes i have copper pipe in my house. but no mercury in my mouth. cob
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Re: Easy flange

Post by olddog »

Silver solder is used for domestic plumbing, and in OZ it has to be a standard to be safe. If you are making a flange, and you have a mapp or oxy torch, heat the end of the pipe to anneal the copper and beat it from the inside of the pipe to gradually create a flange. It can be done without annealing just a bit harder to create a clean flange.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by olddog »

Looking good.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

Nice work.
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SuperDavid
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Re: Easy flange

Post by SuperDavid »

that looks great!!
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

not the "easiest" but its ok
not the "easiest" but its ok
copper sanke flange (6).jpg (4.95 KiB) Viewed 14160 times
Fester
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

casting the copper in a sand mold
casting the copper in a sand mold
copper sanke flange (2).jpg (6.92 KiB) Viewed 14127 times
the casted copper "donut"
the casted copper "donut"
copper sanke flange (3).jpg (4.48 KiB) Viewed 14129 times
machining on lathe
machining on lathe
copper sanke flange (4).jpg (5.72 KiB) Viewed 14127 times
finished part
finished part
copper sanke flange (5).jpg (3.38 KiB) Viewed 14129 times
either end of 2 x 1.5" fitting will work with the flange
either end of 2 x 1.5" fitting will work with the flange
copper sanke flange.jpg (4.88 KiB) Viewed 14132 times


Fester
cob
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Re: Easy flange

Post by cob »

excellent. looks like you know what draft, cores, and shrinkage are about. with a 3 or 4 piece ceramic mold you might just take over the world. he. he. :twisted:
p.s. isn't having to much time on your hands fun? cob
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Fester
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

nope, just a very simple guy needing a copper connector to a beer keg to make a workable still. I thought about this for a year or so and finally built it in a day - start to finish. only wish I had made a few more flanges/adapters. if I'd had one or two of these when I first started distilling it would have made things a LOT easier for me. Like everyone, making the connection from the SS beer keg to copper fittings is a bit of a problem. If you have the tools and equipment to replicate my work then you don't need my handiwork but a few pics would steer you into the general path. If you don't have the tools/equipment/experience to make one of these just let me know... I'll try to help if I can.
It seems that most, namely me for sure, uses a 15.5 gallon stainless steel beer keg as a boiler (either gas or electric, it does not matter) and connecting a copper still-head to the SS boiler is the only "trick". If this fitting was available commercially I would have bought it in a heartbeat. My time is worth more than the price of a simple copper fitting but if I can't get the fitting then I guess I must make it. I'm thinking many other folks are in the same boat but I really cannot make these at production levels to break even on costs but I hope these photos can help others if they have the means to fabricate simple parts.
If there is enough interest then I would consider producing a "production run" of a few hundred parts. Otherwise, everyone would need to make theirs one at a time like I did.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

I could be interested in two or three, if you ever do a batch.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

OK, now I have "a customer"! hookline is always ahead of the curve. I only need a few more to make all the work worthwhile.
If there is enough interest I'll do it. Otherwise you all must make the flange/adapter yourself.
Let me know. Thinking that the price should be around $25 USD if the volume is there. (Order a million and I can get VERY right on price).
If LESS than 200 pieces - a very, very small run - from all of you then it is a no-go. I just cannot set up a copper run and machine it for less than that.
I think most people understand that a "production run" spreads the costs over the total number of pieces and lowers the unit cost of each unit by absorbing the setup costs over each piece. For example: If you buy 100,000 pieces of something then the price is much cheaper than if you only buy one or two pieces. Its the same thing here. Not wanting to make $$$ from my distilling brothers but not wanting to lose $$$ either.
If there is real interest, I'll run off a few hundred and vend a couple to each of you. If not enough interest, OK too. Let me know and try to understand that the lead-time is about one month to set up and produce the shipable results. Right now raw copper is MUCH cheaper than before but fittings/pipe from the plumbing supply stores are still overly expensive. I bitch about that everytime I need something from them. They are very quick to raise their prices when theprice of raw copper increases but somehow the copper fitting and copper pipe prices do not go down when the price of copper goes down. You can join me in hating them if you want.
If they supplied a copper Sanke adapter for my still for $25 or so, I would have bought a few with no bitching. As it is, I must buy a common 2" x 1-1/2" copper pipe reducer for $20. Bitch, bitch, bitch.


Fester
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Re: Easy flange

Post by adama_bill »

Fester I luv your work ~ I don't need 'em but as I'm a patron of the Arts and wanna be ahead of the curve like Hookline, put me down for a couple. :P
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Re: Easy flange

Post by UNRECONSTRUCTED »

You can count me in for two Mr. fester.
HookLine
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

What is the exact ID and OD of the slip joint side of the fitting? IOW, is it for pipe or tube?
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Re: Easy flange

Post by rubber duck »

Maby i missed somthing here but whats wrong with useing half of a copper union?
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Fester
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

I bought a copper pipe fitting - 2" x 1.5" reducer as shown in the last photo above. The fitting accepts either 2" or 1 1/2" copper pipe.
Either end of the reducer can fit the flange.
I used the fitting to size the flange, ferrule or adapter (not sure of the proper term).
photo from internet
photo from internet
flange3.gif (6.16 KiB) Viewed 13860 times
A=1.1"
B=1.774
C=1.984

My thought was by using the reducing fitting I could use either 2" or 1.5" pipe - and with a few more reducers you could take it to 3", 1" or whatever. If I machined the flange to accept the pipe without using the reducer fitting it caused some difficulties.
The use of 2" pipe directly would have been OK if the ID of 2" pipe is always the same and to machine it for use of 1.5" pipe directly would have unnecessarily restricted the hole if you want to use 2" pipe.
The reducing fitting is 1.771" OD on the 1 1/2" end and 1.990 ID on the 2" end. I think 2" copper pipe is about 2.125" OD. This fitting needs to go inside the 2" pipe ??? and 1.5 " pipe goes into the fitting. I have lots of 1.5" pipe and I know that works. ***** Edited this post because I am confused about the 2" pipe.
Of course after making the one in the pictures, I've seen a few ways to improve it. My biggest concern is that the store bought reducing fitting will vary somewhat from manufacturer to manufacturer. That could be a big problem. Also, I'm not very sure about different schedules for pipe (L, M, and K?) and what effect that would have on the whole shabang. My thinking was that the OD is the same and only the ID will change. But that would not be correct. All pipe is usually called 2" if the ID is 2" and all thin walled tubing is called 2" if the OD is 2".
So far, so good. Quite by accident, I seem to have done this correctly.
One change that could be made would be to eliminate the reducer fitting completely. Just make it to fit a piece of 2" copper pipe and supply the flange with about two inches of 2" pipe as a nipple. From there you can go up or down in pipe size or just go with 2".
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

Also, I'm not very sure about different schedules for pipe (L, M, and K?)
Might need to make 2-3 molds?

Or maybe you could make one version to suit the smaller OD tube, but leave plenty of meat on the slip joint side of the fitting, then just machine the ID out to suit bigger sizes.

Or make one version for the biggest OD pipe, and make some copper bushes to adapt to smaller sizes.

There will only be 2-3 commonly used versions of 2" tube/pipe, so it shouldn't be difficult either way.

You would not sell a lot of them to this hobby market at any one time (apart from when they first become available), but they could sell quite consistently over a longer time. So making a big bunch all at once could provide a modest but worthwhile bit of extra income for a few years. Tube/pipe sizes will not change, they are well established.

You make this right, then the market is yours.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

Hookline, this little flange thingy is perfect for me. Just exactly what I needed. At last I have a solid and easy connection to a beer keg boiler.
1 fuzzy photo
1 fuzzy photo
I'll play with this and and try to make it as easy and cheap as possible for everyone.
2nd fuzzy photo
2nd fuzzy photo
3rd fuzzy photo
3rd fuzzy photo
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

Got any non-fuzzy photos? :lol:

And I see what you did there with inverting the reducer.
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Re: Easy flange

Post by Fester »

HookLine wrote:Got any non-fuzzy photos?
Nope. That's the cream of the crop.
HookLine wrote: And I see what you did there with inverting the reducer.
Yes, that was the whole idea with sizing the flange to use a "known" reducer and using both ends.
Trouble is the reducer may vary slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer and then I have distillers screaming at me :esurprised:

Fester
HookLine
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Re: Easy flange

Post by HookLine »

That's why I reckon you need to size it to the tube/pipe. They are standard known sizes.
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