email from Brewhaus

[Halfbaked]

I was thinking the tiger was saying don't worry I am not going to eat you. Same concept just a little diff. Someones gonna get it in the end.

[milehidistilling]

I called and talked to the TTB agent that started this investigation they told me its nothing to worry about they are not going to hassle the customers. I knew this was going to happen with all the new company’s starting up also the TV shows.

To me this was common knowledge that the TTB would eventually ask for records. It’s like owing a gun thy want records.
So stop freaking out people this is nothing new and I would be very surprised if anything comes from it.

Every company that sells distillers has to keep records and the distiller’s need a serial number and the TTB can ask for the records anytime. But you really think the TTB will start investigating over 30000 people a year.

But don’t forget it’s not illegal to have a distiller it depends on how you use it Just keep it clean.

I think in the long run this could help legalize home distilling this is a very fast growing hobby.
Beer and wine making was illegal not too long ago well 30 years ago F*** I’m getting old
This is from the TTB web Site
TTB Laws

Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant. However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.

A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.

[milehidistilling]

Thy will legalize it and tax you. If people are worried about the TTB thy should just get the alcohol fuel permit its free.

Do you know why stills are illegal Rockefeller basically paid congress to pass prohibition go get rid of all the stills so there would be no competition with his gasoline.

I just sold some distilling products to Myth busters I hope this will shed a little light on home distilling like making people blind or dying and of course still blowing up.

[milehidistilling]

I was thinking the tiger was saying don't worry I am not going to eat you. Same concept just a little diff. Someones gonna get it in the end.

In 3 years of distiller’s sales from all the company the TTB will probably get list of about 80000 people.

You really think they will start knocking on doors please thy have bigger fish to fry than go after Grandpa making a little hooch in his basement.

[mash rookie]

Mike,

Did they ask you for your sales records?

[rgarry]

Did they ask for your list?

You need a separate building for permit. Many guys have a garage attached to house.

[milehidistilling]

Mile High. Did you get a letter?

Yes I did and always kept records because I knew this eventually happen.

It seems to me thy want to hassle the company’s to make sure we are staying within the laws.

Turbo Stumpers and Bootlegger stills will have problems hopefully close down



I sent a direct email to Mike, and he is usually very responsive about asking questions are topics directed at MH, so I expect him to answer shortly

It would be very nice to know just how many of the larger companies have gotten this. If just one, it may not be that bad. Possibly someone busted, and chirped about where he bought his setup. If they are all getting these records requests, then we should all be wary.

H.

[milehidistilling]

Mike,
The TTB agent said thay are asking all the company’s for lists and want quarterly reports.
Again I think thy are making sure the company’s are staying within the laws.

Did they ask you for your sales records?

[goose eye]

state laws is diferent than fed laws so think id be lookin at state law to.
how the law works is they try to make examples.

as far as outfit makers - they in the business to make money. they aint in the security business an dam sure aint the law.
yall in charge of yalls on security.

would say that getin out in front of this info was the correct business decision. see how many others do.


so im tole

[milehidistilling]

Was notified comcerning my order that the FEDS wanted a list of all customers for the last 3 years, has the witch hunt begun??

It seems to me thy want to hassle the company’s to make sure we are staying within the laws.

[Jimbo]

how the law works is they try to make examples.

so im tole

Thats the part that scares me the most. Some over zealous yahoo gets a tip and wants to impress his boss, and tag your picture in the daily paper. Like a Goddamned trophy 12 point hangin on the wall.

[goose eye]

Sound like Mike implyin the feds don't care but
you think they gonna shair that info if a state
ask for it.
In some state it is illegal to have a operational
outfit all together. You can legally have all the
parts but one. When you nock your rig down
seperate it. Overkill. Maybe
Some state have alphabet agency that don't do
nothing but look for likker charges.

Your security is your responsibility an no one else

So im tole

[WERAT]

I use my still for distilling water. I need the distilled water to put in my CPAP machine. Isn't that what everyone is doing here?

[Truckinbutch]

Got rid of the available materials on hand and think I'll just lurk and spin some stories on off topic for a while . I think this was an early warning . We could be made headline news for misdirection from much larger political issues at hand right now .

[blind drunk]

what's a still

[One Sock]

I think we should avoid a total freak out over this, people. It's obviously an intimidation tactic to tamp down the huge surge of interest in this hobby because of "The Show"! The Feds aren't aren't goin to swoop in to nail you for the couple quarts of shine in yer basement or garage! They might look at people who've ordered several high capacity stills, because that would imply an intention to produce enuf shine to sell. For the rest of us I can imagine at most an email or letter at some point reminding us of the penalties of distilling alcohol without a license.

[jarheadshiner]

When you nock your rig down
seperate it. Overkill. Maybe
Some state have alphabet agency that don't do
nothing but look for likker charges.

Your security is your responsibility an no one else

Best advice anyone could ever give. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[googe]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week, then they might raise an eye brow and think hmmm what's this guy up to. 17000 members just here times let's say a ball park figure of $2000 to investigate each user, that's $34000000.

[F6Hawk]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week,

Well, THAT'S good news!! I am only coming in at 97-98L a week. But as I drink most of the evidence as fast as I can make it, I should be ok, right?

[F6Hawk]

And I betcha the agent who started this investigation is a member, or at least a lurker, on this forum, and is laughing his ass off right about now...

[drovkin]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week, then they might raise an eye brow and think hmmm what's this guy up to. 17000 members just here times let's say a ball park figure of $2000 to investigate each user, that's $34000000.

Unfortunately that would probably be spent at the drop of a hat

[WERAT]

I'm sure the Feds monitor this site as well as all the other sites that pertain to any kind of illegal activity.

[heartcut]

I believe the great majority of govenment employees, including law enforcement, don't care about what's right, wrong or what makes sense, at least in any practical way. They do what needs to be done to keep their jobs or advance into better ones. If you or I are in the way, it doesn't matter.

[Husker]

I think we should avoid a total freak out over this, people. It's obviously an intimidation tactic to tamp down the huge surge of interest in this hobby because of "The Show"! The Feds aren't aren't goin to swoop in to nail you for the couple quarts of shine in yer basement or garage! They might look at people who've ordered several high capacity stills, because that would imply an intention to produce enuf shine to sell. For the rest of us I can imagine at most an email or letter at some point reminding us of the penalties of distilling alcohol without a license.

While I DO agree that we should not totally 'freak out' over this, and should step back and ponder a bit, I DO NOT follow the belief that this is done to 'intimidate' home distillers at all. It may be used to intimidate the still makers into keeping better records, but not the end user of those stills.

The reason I claim it is not to intimidate us, is that 99% of the people who are actively distilling, or who have bought a still from a manufacturer in the past 3 years, will have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that their information has been presented to the feds . Just keep that last thought in mind, when pondering over this issue. I have ABSOLUTELY no trust in our gooberment at this time, and large collections of what should be personal information like this make that trust even less.

[Husker]

And I betcha the agent who started this investigation is a member, or at least a lurker, on this forum, and is laughing his ass off right about now...

I will assure you, that we have numerous fed / state agents that monitor these forums. I am not sure if any are active members, but posts are certainly being read.

[bghed32]

is it not up to those who are responsibly doing this as a hobby or would like to to counter the TV show misinformation out there and start applying pressure to those who can make a difference. it is time for these laws to change

[mash rookie]

I would not for a moment believe that they are playing games or just trying to intimidate people. Just trying to pick on manufacturers? Thats BS. They are not breaking laws. Dont let Mile High fool you. He is trying to play this down and is concerned with his business. He wont sell a single part if folks think they are reported to the Feds.

The Feds don't play games. They are either on the side lines deciding what and when to move or they are jumping in with both feet.

Even as a kid it was obvious that there was a big difference between the city cops, County and the State cops. The state guys were by far the most professional. Polite, courteous but nobody to be screwed with. The Feds are the big dogs.

The Feds are professional to the nines. Consider that and that they believe in law and do their best to uphold it. While we believe the law is wrong. They believe a law is a law. If they have decided that this is getting out of control they will be knocking on doors.

You don't want them looking at you. Some body is going down. Maybe many. I agree that they wont go after every guy with a small apartment still. They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

I would not be surprised if every customer that purchased a rig gets a letter saying something. What person in their right mind would continue to operate after receiving a letter from the Feds?

[blind drunk]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

[milehidistilling]

I would not for a moment believe that they are playing games or just trying to intimidate people. Just trying to pick on manufacturers? Thats BS. They are not breaking laws. Dont let Mile High fool you. He is trying to play this down and is concerned with his business. He wont sell a single part if folks think they are reported to the Feds.

I only told you my opinion and what they told me. We all knew thy have the right to this info its allover there web site.
The TTB is about revenue what are they going to gain coming after home distillers?
The list thy will get will have about 80000 to 90000 people for three years of still sales
I have my permit and us my distiller but I keep it clean.

[Jimbo]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

Or maybe we let the idiots sort themselves out but yackin on here about their production size rigs. Darwin awards and all that. Give the feds something to hone in on instead of picking one of us randomly.