opening a legal distillery in the U.S.

[moose11]

So after reading 20 pages and finding most if not all of the pictures are not available, and most of the links are dead, is Dave "Uncle Jesse" @ Pioneerspirirts is not in business? what happened ? I thought he got all his permits,& ducks in a row? did goinbroke2 ever get going legaly? I'm interested but lost.

[rad14701]

So after reading 20 pages and finding most if not all of the pictures are not available, and most of the links are dead, is Dave "Uncle Jesse" @ Pioneerspirirts is not in business? what happened ? I thought he got all his permits,& ducks in a row? did goinbroke2 ever get going legaly? I'm interested but lost.

You are correct about Pioneer Spirits, and we don't ask questions... Not sure about goinbroke2...

[COOKINSUMTIN]

Well that was a bittersweet. I was so excited page after page of UJ journey I had no idea.... I hate stories with sad endings. I learn more and more everyday and just want to thank everyone who contributes here.

[Uncle Jesse]

My friend is trying to talk me into give it another go, this time on a smaller scale and with my best friend for many decades.

I'm curious and interested. No promises, but the idea has been rattling around!

[jholmz]

might be good jesse you never know you already got experience under your belt could work for you

[goinbroke2]

Business plan is done (and has been) but I'm not in position to move forward yet. Several obstacles have been cleared up, one left..technically two...but anyway.
My current job has me bouncing around so much and I'm so close to retiring I'm trying to decide whether to wait a couple more years then do it when i can focus 100% on it, or start up after I move next summer.
The busier you are, the more people ask you do something. Last summer was spent putting 8000km's on the truck hauling my kid and his dragster all over the Maritimes. I've got orders for engine work,roll bar installs and wiring a garage...on top of the honey-do list which includes installing a dropped ceiling downstairs and paint/trim etc.

Right now I'm quite low on stock because i never had much time to run during the summer. I'm now waiting for days when it's above the freezing point so I can run the batch I currently have fermented.

I need about 35hr's in a day to catch up. I took 3 weeks off at Christmas..only got one batch run and am trying to get the second before I go back to work on Monday!

[magnetic_tarantula]

My friend is trying to talk me into give it another go, this time on a smaller scale and with my best friend for many decades.

I'm curious and interested. No promises, but the idea has been rattling around!

I kinda thought smaller scale, higher quality, and not putting yourself out so far that you lose everything was the ticket. I wan to do this but only insofar as I own everything outright(I.e. not continually making payments with no income). Of course I hafta keep my dayjob to pay for the night job.

[rgarry]

Small scale, high quality and maybe in tourist area ( Naples, San Diego, Vegas etc) where tours will generate income. http://palmridgereserve.com/home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. Open in Rural Fl but not far from Orlando and is growing. I'm sure there are many successful models but great spirits don't equal success. If you want to launch in Florida, I'm in as an investor.

[magnetic_tarantula]

Not only is Palm Ridge Reserve a great Whiskey.....I live outside San Diego!!

Does anyone know of something like a distilling co-op. I was thinking it might be cool to get together with a group of people and buy a piece of land and put up a building. The thought being we would all pay our share of the various real estate costs(land/building/security/etc), and have a separate space within that building to do our own thing. I know people would probably be competing with each other, but for someone like me that doesn't bother me and I want it small scale as income on the side. My hope is to start something now and grow to where when I retire that can be my job/interest.

[tallen702]

I figure I'll post in here first, and if I don't get anything, I can always start a topic. My question for those of you who have either gone legit, or are trying to go legit is this: What are the biggest obstacles you've faced?

As for competition, hell, we've learned from the micro brew industry that the more, the merrier. Those who can't make good product lose in the end. If you can make a good product AND have good marketing and sales staff, you'll be around for some time.

[Bohunk]

Tallen, I opened my distillery in 2008, and just like you I thought it would be a great business to get into – wrong! Your friends and relatives are all encouraging you to start up, and you have the know-how, but that doesn’t sell your product. I make vodka, cause vodka is the number one selling spirit worldwide, here in America it out sells all other spirits combined. I have won a gold medal for best vodka made in America, won a silver medal at the worlds spirit show, and my relatives love it, but that doesn’t make enough money to keep the doors open. I sure wouldn’t want to rain on your parade, but it is a vicious world out there. I make about one dollar a bottle, sell a thousand cases a year, that’s $12,000.00 per year profit. How do I do it?? I’m retired and don’t need the company to pay me. Look into it and see if you can make it go, but selling your product is the biggest problem you’ll have. I have a great product, sell it cheaper than everyone else, and still people are creatures of habit, they still pick up the old brand they are used to. Good luck if you decide to do it, but remember knowing how to make booze is the simplest part.
The Bohunk

[goinbroke2]

Tallen, I opened my distillery in 2008, and just like you I thought it would be a great business to get into – wrong! Your friends and relatives are all encouraging you to start up, and you have the know-how, but that doesn’t sell your product. I make vodka, cause vodka is the number one selling spirit worldwide, here in America it out sells all other spirits combined. I have won a gold medal for best vodka made in America, won a silver medal at the worlds spirit show, and my relatives love it, but that doesn’t make enough money to keep the doors open. I sure wouldn’t want to rain on your parade, but it is a vicious world out there. I make about one dollar a bottle, sell a thousand cases a year, that’s $12,000.00 per year profit. How do I do it?? I’m retired and don’t need the company to pay me. Look into it and see if you can make it go, but selling your product is the biggest problem you’ll have. I have a great product, sell it cheaper than everyone else, and still people are creatures of habit, they still pick up the old brand they are used to. Good luck if you decide to do it, but remember knowing how to make booze is the simplest part.
The Bohunk

Now THERE, is a slap of reality! I want to sell whiskey but didn't realise vodka was so popular. I thought it was what micro's started with because you can make it and sell it immediately. (instant ROI) I could see selling vodka, or flavoured vodka locally until the whiskey is aged enough to sell. Friends have the Ironworks distillery a couple hours from me, they barreled rum for one year and then sold it, never got a chance to ask what the minimum time on oak for rum is but i thought it was like whiskey, 2 years. Mind you, I was told by the likker commision that I could only sell through them and the minimum had to be enough to stock the whole province! In other words, unless I pumped out thousands of gallons a week, forget it. Then I see Ironworks selling from the distillery?? Yeah, it's who you talk to. With a permit here, you can sell direct to consumers from farmers markets and a sales room of the distillery. Another thing different here, you can have the distillery in a garage, attached to your house!! (again I was blown away after "knowing all the rules" then seeing Ironworks)
I think Lynne and Pierre may have pioneered some stuff and I'm gratefull, just have to get the rest of my "issues" straightened out, sigh.
Here's their link,
http://www.ironworksdistillery.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[magnetic_tarantula]

Does anyone know what your land has to be zoned as in California to open a distillery?

[ohyeahyeah]

never got a chance to ask what the minimum time on oak for rum is but i thought it was like whiskey, 2 years.

Its actually 3 years for whisky in Canada.
One year for rum.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... .html#h-54" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[TheProfessor]

the name i've chosen is 'pioneer spirits' and i plan to produce traditional sour mash american whiskies but i'm not sure how they will sell, so i'll be producing whatever the market will bear. many wineries and orchards near me and i hope to take advantage.

I was wondering if the likker laws are anything like the beer laws. Do you have to go through a three tier distribution?
I am very curious.

[TheProfessor]

Let me know if you end up hiring lol

[JethroBodine]

Lots of good points here about the reality of opening a new distillery. Like any business, sales are what keeps the business open. I've sampled some very mediocre products that, with proper marketing, have sold millions. If you have the money to back a massive marketing campaign, you can convince people to buy your product. That will also take more money to keep up with demand, though. Starting small and working on marketing as well as product development seems like the key to success to me. I've been watching the small distillery boom here in Vermont, and that seems to be what works 'round these parts.

On a similar note, I've finally got things together in my life to the point that it looks like my TTB paperwork will be going in around the first of the year, and hoping for an opening around March. Once I got to the point of submitting the paperwork, if there is an interest, I'll start another thread about where it goes.

[woodshed]

Jethro, good on ya for pursuing this. My federal permit took 6 months for approval. Then state, then any local. Safe to say it could be a year before you can open once paperwork is submitted.
Label approval has a time limit of 90 days. Mine took 32. They won't even start the COLA's until you receive your basic permit.

[JethroBodine]

Thanks woodshed. Just went to a class with a guy who got his permit in just over a month, but is a hard cider producer. Not sure if that matters for timing. The website is saying 65 days. State of Vermont says they pretty much bow to the TTB, so that should be pretty much be a lick-it-and-stick-it inspection. Hopefully, after the holidays, they wont have a big back log . Long uphill battle ahead.

[woodshed]

One thing that slowed us down were the holidays. probably added a month. Had a snafu with original bond amount as well which meant the revocation of first bond then posting second bond. Did the entire process by ourselves with no attorneys etc.. may have slowed us down a bit but saved a lot of money. Not really in a hurry so no biggy.

[JethroBodine]

Glad it all worked out in the end .

I'll be filling out the paperwork with a guy who already filled out his paperwork with the help of the head of the TTB inspectors when he was at a wine conference in New York, and another guy who is submitting sooner than me. I am quite excited about the whole thing. Some nights I can't sleep thinking about it .

[woodshed]

I know the feeling. I'm looking to hit the shelves for the holidays.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[CanadianBacon]

Good to see people attempting to start a business from something they love to do, Sometimes business is hard and not everything works out. But your one of the few that can say you tried and you can always make a new plan and go at it again. I have been involved in allot of different business plans. Some made money, Some not so much and some are still it the works. My current business only makes 200-400$ a month with about 80% profits I take home, Its been hard for it to take of and get the inventory I need, Very slow. I am actually doing a trial run by buying stock for another business venture with the profits I make from the first one now though. I run all these from online so I can do them at home and while I work and each business supports the others inventory.

Its good to see story's like this, there's not real way to get into business unless your persistent and ready to take losses at every corner and use your gains to cover the losses. Some of the richest people in the world have gone bankrupt 9 times on average.

[BoomTown]

wow, I feel like I'm walking in the footprints of giants.

We've started our paperwork, have the place, and have a pre-sale agreement in place to deliver a fair amount of product once we get it 'boiled up'.

will be watching this thread pretty closely for the next few months.

Boom

[Bushman]

wow, I feel like I'm walking in the footprints of giants.

We've started our paperwork, have the place, and have a pre-sale agreement in place to deliver a fair amount of product once we get it 'boiled up'.

will be watching this thread pretty closely for the next few months.

Boom

Having pre-sales in place is a huge step. Good luck I am sure many will be following your progress.

[S-Cackalacky]

Congratulations! Do you have a product name yet? What is it you're planning to make?

[BoomTown]

Congratulations! Do you have a product name yet? What is it you're planning to make?

Yes Cackalacky, we've applied for trademark protection on it, and will roll it out as soon as it's 'protected'.

We'll be aiming a making bourbon recipe, hoping to be able to keep it in barrel long enough to call it bourbon.

Thanks for the good wishes.

Boom

[MichiganCornhusker]

Call it whatever you want, Boom, I've tasted it and it's a damn fine drop! Very nice to hear that you will be going legit with it, and not at all surprised after sampling. Congrats and good luck with the process!

[woodshed]

That's awesome Boomtown!

[BoomTown]

Thanks guys, now we need to find an engineer who has drawn plans for a few distilleries to help us design the plant facility. Hoping to nail down the engineering before Christmas. Have spoken briefly with Odin, but he's pretty busy, and in the still building biz, so we need to widen the net. Anyone interested, please PM me.

Boom