How is the new Affordable health care plan going to affect y

[HolyBear]

Very well said Husker!!! I've been reserving my thoughts on this as well. But this being the day of our independence, the day we remember our for fathers who were willing to give their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to ensure their posterity, freedom from a totalitarian government. I say if people from another country want to be enslaved to their own government by allowing the government control over their very life,.. so be it. That's not our way. That's not our country. That's not how we were founded. That's not what the majority of Americans in our REPUBLIC want. When you are the biggest kid on the block, someone will always be trying to take you down. If Canada's health care system is so great, why did their chancellor (or whatever tha hell his title is) come here for heart surgery? If Cuban health care is so great, why did Fidel Castro fly in surgeons from Spain? I suppose the British death rates from breast cancer being almost double the American rates are purely a coincidence. We the Americans, have the finest health care in the world, we have the innovations because we are CAPITALIST!!! And if you don't want someone making a buck off you, then don't go!!! Its that simple. If you want to be slave to your government, fine,... but don't come crying to us saying that you want freedom when the yolk of communism, socialism, totalitarianism, etc, is too heavy for you to bare.
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY....

]

Personally, I just don't see the Affordable Care Act working. I think the entire insurance industry needs to be restructured. Right now we have 50 different insurance industries, one for each state; just changing that could reduce costs considerably. Facility centralization would also reduce costs. I know an accountant who has been in the medical industry for 35 years. He says more money is WASTED because every hospital has to have the newest and best instead of simply sharing.

I know I stated I would stay out of this, but I just could not help myself.

The quote I am using, is not so much re-directed back at rtalbigr, it just happens to have 2 parts that I wanted to talk about.

First off, one big problem we have is there is NO SUCH THING as health insurance in this country. However most ppl 'believe' so, and thus are fooled and want to treat it as such. If there were health insurance, then you would pay 500 to 800 a year on insurance. It would never cover things like dr office visits, routine care, medication, etc. Does anyone go to their auto insurance company when they need to fill up the tank with gas? when they need to change oil? When they need new tires/wipers? Nope.

What we have in this country is PRE PAID medical. We really NEED to stop calling it insurance, IT IS NOT. However, being that it is pre-paid medical, we do not act appropriately (as a group of people). As a group, we demand things like every trivial expense paid for. We do not shop around ourselves, or try t maintain costs in any way. Also, on the back side, we have the hospitals quadrupling (or more) the prices they charge, since the goobernent medical programs ('care and 'caid) do not payout well. So the hospitals are playing the shell game. As a society, we think insurance, we pay our 'premiums' then expect to live forever. Along with that, we have become overly litigious (fukin tort lawyers!!!). The whole system IS already unsustainable, and based upon a fantasy.

However, does ANYONE believe the gooberment is going to do it any better? Any cheaper? Any more 'fair'. If so, I have a large plot of land to sell, that at one time was river front property (before the damn).



The second point I want to make is one that you hear thrown around A LOT. That is this mythical 50 states all with their own insurance companies.

Well folks, ever heard of the 10th amendment? Each state has written it's own laws, added it's own mandates. About the only way to legally build policies that work across state lines, is to make all of the coverage a union of each states mandates. Either that, or get the states to drop some of their mandates. This is what the system is, and WHY it is that way. This IS what happens when goobernent gets involved in commerce, and starts writing laws. Now we have a bill (er, law), that is probably 20x bigger and more obnoxious than ANY of the former state laws. And there is a HUGE drum beat to simply have 'universal' policy capabilities. Well, if that is going to happen, then you will get either 1. a 2x or 3x more expensive bloated set of plans, because they have to cover EVERYTHING across all states OR you end up fuking the states and usurping their rights.

Either way, the whole thing is almost certain to fold like a house of cards. As a people, we have gotten our expectations and behaviors SO out of whack, when it comes to health care. We treat ourselves like shit, expect to live forever, and do not want to pay for shit. Those are 3 mutually exclusive directions, but we think we can do them all.


I am going to slink back into my hole for now. I really should not have posted.

H.

[blind drunk]

Very interesting stats - select a cause of death in the upper right. Hours of fun

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/caus ... y-country/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Odin]

Not living in the US. But sharing my Dutch experiences with you.

Health care is getting more & more expensive, due to better (= more expensive treatments) and a lot of old folks. Health care had a monopoly no individual could compete against. By means of a health care plan, an insurance actually, big insurance corporations fight the big health care institutions. A more balanced act.

We read in the papers, like every day, how the insurers wring more efficiency out of those health care institutions. We knew it! It can be done.

Only why is the health care policy getting like 10% more expensive every year?



Odin.

[whiskeytripping]

very well said wacabi1

[retlaw]

Check this out on your Medicare premium increases and when they are scheduled to go into effect!

MEDICARE

Look clearly at the 2014 rate compared to the 2013 rate.

For those of you who are on Medicare, read the following. It's short, but important and you probably haven't heard about it in the Mainstream News:

"The per person Medicare Insurance Premium will increase from the present Monthly Fee of $96.40, rising to:

$104.20 in 2012

$120.20 in 2013

And

$247.00 in 2014."

These are Provisions incorporated in the Obamacare Legislation, purposely delayed so as not to confuse the 2012 Re-Election Campaigns. Send this to all Seniors that you know, so they will know who's throwing them under the bus.

Peggy Riehle
Internal Representative
Network Contracting
205-220-6778

[mash rookie]

My 31 yo daughter smashed her finger in a car door on Saturday. She was at work on her day off because there was a large convention at the Hotel. She had extra staff on duty to handle the expected parking overflow. As a salaried employee she is required to make sacrifices to insure the operation works smoothly.

Her finger was crushed, nail knocked off and there was severe swelling. Because she does not have a doctor she had the choice to suffer and take it, or go to an ER for care. The costs would have been covered by state industrial insurance. Being my daughter she wrapped it up and kept working in pain. Anyone else ever crushed a finger? It hurts like hell.

31 yo, College education, manages 12-16 people and does not have health care insurance?? With jobs hard to find who is going to quit or give their bosses an ultimatum?? Yeah, Yeah, This country is built on free enterprise. It is also built on broken promises and broken backs.

I am a self employed entrepreneur. I am damn lucky to afford any coverage in this screwed up selfish system.

[maheel]

over here in OZ the GOV has made an interesting method of forcing the wealthy into private health and have removed a 30% premium discount for higher earners (but kept the 30% discount for lower income earners)

"medicare" is our public health system payment / rebate / refund system

if you earn over $X and dont pay for private health they tax you a higher "medicare" levy and it works out the same as having private.
so if you earn more you just pay private health insurance instead of a tax and no insurance.
many will not stop paying private health as they have a fear of having to use the worsening public system and of course just paying tax for not benefit

the major benefit for those in private here is avoiding waiting times in public hospitals and getting private rooms and choice of doctors instead of "ward rooms"

although we do have a very good "free" health system in OZ if you need emergency care or get a serious disease (cancer) the waiting times for more "elective" procedures like knees / hips etc is getting a lot longer. it's going to get a lot worse here but as our aging population is going to cost us younger ones big $$$ to keep them alive....

[texassquid]

I find it amusing that people without insurance think that everyone else should sacrifice in order to help them. Then they call anyone that dosen't want to make that sacrifice selfish. Talk about hypocrisy. I work to support myself and my family and not everyone else.

[rad14701]

I find it amusing that people without insurance think that everyone else should sacrifice in order to help them. Then they call anyone that dosen't want to make that sacrifice selfish. Talk about hypocrisy. I work to support myself and my family and not everyone else.

Well, if you want to sound all that macho, why don't you just pay cash and stop relying on the insurance crutch...??? See, there's more than one way to view things...

Seriously, think before you speak/type...

[Prairiepiss]

I find it getting harder and harder to be able to pay the increasing insurance premiums. That I mite add I don't hardly ever use. And when I do I still end up paying some outrageous amount out of pocket. But I keep paying it so my children and wife are covered. Just in case something happens. But my children and wife haven't used the insurance in 5 years. So I'm paying a shite ton of money. And not really getting anything for it. I'm just giving the insurance company money. Just so they van turn around and raise my rates every year.

[texassquid]

I find it amusing that people without insurance think that everyone else should sacrifice in order to help them. Then they call anyone that dosen't want to make that sacrifice selfish. Talk about hypocrisy. I work to support myself and my family and not everyone else.

Well, if you want to sound all that macho, why don't you just pay cash and stop relying on the insurance crutch...??? See, there's more than one way to view things...

Seriously, think before you speak/type...

I didn't say anything about being macho. You're the one that said that. Then again I don't expect much from people like you. Those that can't argue usually try to spin and put words into others mouths. I feel sorry for you for not being intelligent enough to make a real argument.

Seriously, think before you speak/type...

[Dnderhead]

ITS COMMING ITS COMMING ITS COMMING,,all over again...just a matter of time..

[mogur]

Would you rather have money grubbing, slimy politicians making money off our misery, or money grubbing, slimy corporates making money off our misery? One in the same, most pols make connections, and then trade on that the rest of their lives in either the corporate world through lobbying, or stay on the dole in the political world. Then there's the pure corporates that simply buy the legislation that favors their bottom line.

And, as a collorary, do you want a nanny state telling you what you are allowed to do, or do you want the corporate world spewing nasties into the environment as they please? Duh, most of us want to decide our own risks, and yet want protection from corporate greed. That takes balance. A balance that can't be achieved by simple political battle lines. Throw lobbyists from both sides out the door, along with their suppliant pols. Get some legislators that have both common sense and empathy. This (the US) is a republic, not a democracy. That means that the majority can not trample the rights of the minority, and that the government can not rule by decree. We were founded in balance (albeit precarious), and polarization does not serve us well.

[mash rookie]

Then they call anyone that dosen't want to make that sacrifice selfish.

I will tell you why I call you and like minded people selfish. Instead of considering for even a slight moment that there is something wrong with the system you take the attitude, I got mine screw the people that dont have health insurance! There must be something wrong with them or they are lazy bastards. ????

I used the example of my daughter because it shows how screwed up the system is. When a college educated manager has to choose between eating, paying her condo payment or health insurance something is wrong!!!

I am not saying this new system is perfect or even write or wrong. I AM SAYING WE NEED HEALTH CARE REFORM! At least they are making an effort with this. Lets give it a chance and correct what does not work.

You selfish ones are too lazy to help affect change if it doesn’t help you!

I do care about my neighbor. And, I will pay a little more if I can help improve our society.
Respectfully and proudly,

Mash Rookie

[BrooklynTech]

I know nothing about this. I'm a retired school teacher 69 years old and on Medicare. I guess I pay something but have no idea how much. Before I turned 65 I believe my State paid it as I was a State employee. I am a Kaiser Perminenty (sp) member and have been since the early 70's. My copay now to see the Dr is $15. Lab is free (ha someone pays). Don't know what the new law will change, probably not much to me.

[HungoverHog]

LOL should have closed it up a long time ago. Name calling is pretty pitiful especially on a forum. Funny stuff. I hope you are all proud of yourselves!

[rad14701]

I made my reply to texassquid via PM so as not to pull the discussion further off topic...

This whole healthcare issue has been a hot topic for me for my entire life and I take more of a humanitarian stance than political... If the minds of the masses can't be fixed then politicians don't stand a chance of pleasing more than a small percentage of said masses... It's a people problem, not a political problem... And part of the problem is that the human psyche, for as amazing as it may seem, is incapable of adequately processing the barrage of information it is subjected to on a constant basis and people simply shut out what isn't of immediate concern to themselves... And even then they will usually choose to concentrate on happy things rather than complex matters not to their liking... And then they form ill-informed narrow-minded opinions rather than attempting to comprehend the big picture... And, considering how ugly the big picture is, who can honestly blame them...

But I digress...

[rtalbigr]

It's a people problem, not a political problem... And part of the problem is that the human psyche, for as amazing as it may seem, is incapable of adequately processing the barrage of information it is subjected to on a constant basis and people simply shut out what isn't of immediate concern to themselves... And even then they will usually choose to concentrate on happy things rather than complex matters not to their liking... And then they form ill-informed narrow-minded opinions rather than attempting to comprehend the big picture... And, considering how ugly the big picture is, who can honestly blame them...

But I digress...

It's interesting that you put this issue in those terms. Actually this issue was directly addressed by Plato in his treatise Republic about 400 years BC. There he postulates that in a well ordered "State" that not only is it not the task of the general populous to make these decisions but that they don't have the temperament to do so. It is the task of "Guardians" to consider the best welfare of the State as a whole. It is the duty of these Guardians with special training to truthfully determine what is just for all.

"Until philosophers are kings, or kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom to meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have the rest from their evils, -no, nor the human race, as I believe, -and then only will our State have the possibility of life and behold the light of day." (Plato, Republic, Book V)

Money, corporate, political, social,and special interests have so clouded the issues that the possibility of actually reaching a wise and just consensus is virtually impossible. So, how can we possibly grasp the big picture? How long would it take to read the 2700 page ACA? So yes, we then define by our own narrow worlds. The bigger problem is then that 'our' 'Guardians' are doing the same.

Big R

[RumRaider]

Remember Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? Of course there are no answers there but he does a great job of framing the issues of free will vs happiness and individual rights vs the greater good. His depiction of "guardians" is that they truly have the best interests of the populace at heart. How many of us would believe that they do? Far fewer than the number of us that will be forced to accept the decisions of today's version of guardians. At least we still get to vote although that right is coming under attack in some ways. Anyway, rage all you want, each side is too ridiculously entrenched to change the other opinions. Most importantly, each side is too ridiculously entrenched to find the best solution so we end up with everybody being unsatisfied and pissed off.

[retlaw]

Obamacare, the Great Swindle
http://www.naturalnews.com/036361_Obama ... indle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

-A costly new tax on the middle class
-Government monopoly for Big Pharma
-How Obamacare will lead to mandatory vaccinations for everyone



Myths and Truths about Obamacare
http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files/ ... shcr-2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[blind drunk]

http://mike-adams-scam-artist.blogspot.ca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The owner of Natural News. I guess this makes the special interests point mentioned earlier.

[retlaw]

http://mike-adams-scam-artist.blogspot.ca/

The owner of Natural News. I guess this makes the special interests point mentioned earlier.

looking to see who wrote that blog but funny thing is nobody seems to be claiming ownership of those words, or point of weiw, wonder why???

[RumRaider]

http://mike-adams-scam-artist.blogspot.ca/

The owner of Natural News. I guess this makes the special interests point mentioned earlier.

looking to see who wrote that blog but funny thing is nobody seems to be claiming ownership of those words, or point of weiw, wonder why???

Aw c'mon Retlaw. When you get outdebated just give it up. Don't pull the special interest trick of ignoring the facts for some bs argument. You can still complain about mandatory insurance, just bring better sources with actual facts. I hope you didn't send that guy any money.

[blind drunk]

The NaturalNews Network is a non-profit collection of public education websites covering topics that empower individuals to make positive changes in their health, environmental sensitivity, consumer choices and informed skepticism. The NaturalNews Network is owned and operated by Truth Publishing International, Ltd., a Taiwan corporation. It is not recognized as a 501(c)3 non-profit in the United States, but it operates without a profit incentive, and its key writer, Mike Adams, receives absolutely no payment for his time, articles or books other than reimbursement for items purchased in order to conduct product reviews.

Seems like he runs an "off shore non-profit" company

[retlaw]

your health program has nothing to do with me,
i do not reside in the USA,

i just like to stick up for the little guy over the tyranny for profit,

if anyone wants to stay healthy this kid from Alaska made a great movie about finding out the FACTS of the health care system,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vzDHGLEUyw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

he shows many dr.s putting down what really works for being healthy by the dr.s using the same argument most are using here,
he proves them all wrong with first hand witness's of people curing them self using the practise that the dr's say is BS,

and guess what? the dr.s still don't believe him,
why?
because they lose money,

there is one thing that everybody on planet earth wants,
and that’s the freedom of choice,
why are the freedoms of choice being removed?
PROPHIT beyond your wildest dreams,

[retlaw]

The NaturalNews Network is a non-profit collection of public education websites covering topics that empower individuals to make positive changes in their health, environmental sensitivity, consumer choices and informed skepticism. The NaturalNews Network is owned and operated by Truth Publishing International, Ltd., a Taiwan corporation. It is not recognized as a 501(c)3 non-profit in the United States, but it operates without a profit incentive, and its key writer, Mike Adams, receives absolutely no payment for his time, articles or books other than reimbursement for items purchased in order to conduct product reviews.

Seems like he runs an "off shore non-profit" company

don't worry about offshore accopunts, obama put an end to them,
http://www.panamalaw.org/getting_out_of ... 02-12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[blind drunk]

My point was he claims to be "non profit" but it can't be verified because it's an off shore Corp. That's part of the scam. Very sketchy.

I have no problem with alternative health care as long as it's evidence based (even a little and at early stages of experimentation). I know a guy who did cure himself of diabetes by radically changing his diet and life style. Also, my best friend died of complications due to diabetes because he went along with life as usual and insulin. I get it. But alot of this so called alternative health is just another way of exploiting people's fear and a desire for simple solutions. I'm thinking of the "apricot seeds cure cancer." Cancer is one of the most complex diseases and no fruit seed is going to cure it once and for all. No way, no how. So much of this alternative health paradigm is as corrupt as the big pharma paradigm. Remain skeptical. Blended solutions are probably best.

[Dnderhead]

the trouble with health care as is a monopoly.years ago doctors worked out of "home offices" 20$ visit was common.
if they found something then further test mite be given at hospital..now the hospital is the only place to go and they charge
something like 500$per hour.this is like you sending you car back to Detroit because you had a flat tire.
its also the people's fault, I know of many that whould not have to go if they whould follow directions.they go and git "pills"
for diabetes/cholesterol etc then go home and have two triple hamburgers with cheese and all the fixings and wash it down
with a beer. so healthcare has turned into big business.meds are the same , iv seen where some meds are marked up 4,000%.
as for insurance,those that have it dont care about the price they run to the doctors every time they have a cold or as my father
whould say a fart crosswise. the answer I have no idea its all about greed and do thank its about to end.

[retlaw]

My point was he claims to be "non profit" but it can't be verified because it's an off shore Corp. That's part of the scam. Very sketchy.

I have no problem with alternative health care as long as it's evidence based (even a little and at early stages of experimentation). I know a guy who did cure himself of diabetes by radically changing his diet and life style. Also, my best friend died of complications due to diabetes because he went along with life as usual and insulin. I get it. But alot of this so called alternative health is just another way of exploiting people's fear and a desire for simple solutions. I'm thinking of the "apricot seeds cure cancer." Cancer is one of the most complex diseases and no fruit seed is going to cure it once and for all. No way, no how. So much of this alternative health paradigm is as corrupt as the big pharma paradigm. Remain skeptical. Blended solutions are probably best.

if it was not offshore it would be considered in the jurisdiction of the USA, if that was so then he would have his web page shut down and he would be in jail, like they did to Julian Assange of wiki leaks,
if you can't disprove the information, then shoot the messenger,

most of the new way of thinking Dr.s with treatments that go against the big pharma agenda have to relocate outside the jurisdiction of the USA because fear of imprisonment, the list is large, most moving to central and south American to set up shop,

you are correct in saying that "So much of this alternative health paradigm is as corrupt as the big pharma paradigm."
if money can be made then there is people that will abuse it for profit,

but there are many in the field that dedicate their lives to helping others and take all kinds of BS for doing so but still march on because they know deep down inside they are doing good,
the negative profit seekers destroy these peoples good intentions,

i am one that believes that seeds and plants can reverse our bodies ailments,
big pharma does not create new drugs, they try to imitate a substance found in nature that they can't copyright,
by creating a chemical version of it with a slight twist from the natural version so they can copyright it,
this slight twist is what and where the side affects comes from,

mother nature has perfected it but big pharma can't copyright it,
so take this pill to fix your foot,
then take this pill to fix your stomach from the side effects of the pill you took to fix your foot,
then take this pill to fix your liver from the pill you took to fix your stomach from the pill you took to fix your foot,
and so on and so on and so on,
nothing gets cured but your pocket gets a work out,

dunderhead hit it on the nose,
the more insurance you have the more pills you get,

[blind drunk]

Two things. My point was his non profit claim. We have no way of (easily) verifying that claim.

Second, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not the other way around.

if you can't disprove the information, then shoot the messenger

Dr.s who believe in what they preach have to stay put and fight the fight, not run away to countries with very lax regulations. Medical tourism. Raised eyebrows and all that. Paul Stamets is putting his money where his mouth is.