Living Off the Grid

[Truckinbutch]

You are still on a hell of a roll , PP . I'm still behind ya and willing to help if I can .

[ga flatwoods]

Good for you. I am trying to buy 20 acres near me already in pasture with a barn. I want goats and honeybees. Or so I think at the moment. Goats are high. Used to you could buy one any day for $40!
Ga Flatwoods

[bearriver]

Happy for ya PP. Starting over is quite an adventure. It sounds like you have a wonderful dream that your fulfilling.

I killed my first chickens 2 days ago. We processed the cockerels from a straight run and kept all the hens for potential layers. Found out I've been cleaning my game birds all wrong after watching a video on how to do it properly, which was really cool for me. We will eventually buy 2-3 meat goats and 2 mules, but I'm just barely getting the bills paid of late.

[SoMo]

Watch out them mules can be pretty chewy no matter how you cook it.

[Prairiepiss]

Watch out them mules can be pretty chewy no matter how you cook it.

LMAO
I figure it would be the same as zebra. I've had zebra fillets. And it was a little tough. Not as tough as I thought it would be. But still good.

Camel on the other hand.

[Prairiepiss]

I'm getting a little cornfused here. I had typed out a long response instead of my earlier post. And it got lost. And I think I forgot some things. So here is the rest of the story.

The people we got the solar panels from. Are doing the same thing we are. Nice younger couple. A lot further along then we are. They had purchased the solar panels under the assumption they could run air conditioning with it. Didn't work. So they removed the system. And went back to the small system they had for most all the electrical in the house. They hooked up to the grid. For just the air conditioning and refrigeration//freezer. After they found out they would have to pay for the poles to the house. Their loss gain.

Anyway I did learn a few things from him. Mainly about water. I had been up in the air about what to use for a cistern. And how to keep it from freezing. He had a 1500 gal above ground tank. One of the opaque white ones from a farm supply. He dug out a pad for it to sit on. It's at the crest of the hill above his house. He dug this pad 36" deep. To get the bottom below the frostline. Then back filled with sand around it. Up to the ground level. During winter he stacks hay bales around it. Said it hasn't frozen yet. After at least 5 years. It might get some ice on the top of the water. But the bottom never freezes. And it always flows.

The rest of his system is rain collection off the house roof. It flows into a smaller cistern in a shed next to the house. He uses a small pump to pump it from there up to the main tank. Where it is gravity fed to the house. Where he normally just uses the gravity pressure for most uses. But has a RV type on demand pump for the shower. And when more pressure is needed.

So what did I learn from this. The same thing I tell people around here all the time. Bigger mass is better. Just like using a bigger flake stand. That will take longer to heat up. A larger mass of water will also take longer to cool to freezing point. Retaining the heat. And collecting it from the ground. Duh.

So that visit finalized my water plan. A 1500 gal above ground tank from a farm supply. Set 3' into the side of the hill. Instead of hay or straw. I will use what is available to me. In an over abundance. Sawdust. I will cover the above ground portion with sawdust. Which should make a good insulator. It will be placed as high up the hill as I can get it. So j can get as much gravity pressure as I can get.

He also has a composting toilet. In the house. Which I had never been around before. And as many say. They work quite good. Even though it was full. To the point it should be dumped. You would have never known it was there. I just had to see it with my own eyes. Or should I say not smell it with my own nose.

They built the house themselves. With mostly recycled and or really cheap/free materials. I would have never known it. When we drove up to the house. Winedy drive through the trees. I looked at my wife and said. These people have way more money then they deserve. Boy wa I wrong. It's a two story house. With a cathedral ceiling. And the south facing end has some big Windows to let lots of light in. Along with a huge stained glass window. They picked up from a demo job. Most all the wood was rough cut pieces from a local Amish sawmill. Looked like short pieces that normally couldn't be sold. But was put together very nicely. The floor was made of broken granite pieces and off cuts. From a counter top manufacture. They got for free. For hauling them off. They used it in the walkways outside also. They used the crappy wool that can't be sold for good money. From a local sheep herder. Mixed it with borax and diatamacious earth. However you spell that. They put up plastic stuffed it in. Said it took about 1500 pounds. The outside walls got a mud plastering. Said it was a mix of red clay and flour. With something else added. It looked good. The ceiling under the roof. Got the wool also. With burlap covering it. So when you look up. All you seen was the burlap. It actually looked really good. I don't know how fire resistant it would be? But then again all that rough cut wood. Wouldn't be fire resistant either.

All and all. I was very impressed with the work they had put into it. Gave me many ideas. And some hope. That one day. I will have a place as nice as that. Something to work towards. After talking with him. And learning what skills head beforehand. I should have no problem accomplishing our goals. Finding the supplies to do it. Will be the biggest challenge. Like today we found a truck load of plywood for free on Craigslist. Ended up coming home with it and 5 55 gal plastic drum rain barrels. From a guy who had an aquaponics system up and running. So I learned a little more. More about what not to do. But it was something learned.

[Red Rim]

For what it's worth..
Fifteen years ago my parents retired and bought a piece of property in BFE.
365 acres square in the middle of nowhere.
They had no plans on being off the grid, however, the power company told them it would cost $35000 to put power where they wanted it and they could not do it themselves. Which was especially funny because my father was a lineman and had worked with power his entire life.
Plan B, alternate power source.
After doing a bunch of research, they found the panels, converter/inverter and 24 batteries for $15000.
It was an absolute no brainer. Since then they have added a few additional panels, batteries, and a windmill and survive just fine without ever paying a power bill, much less the original start up cost.
They do use other fuels as well, wood stove to heat with, a large propane take to run the clothes dryer, cookstove and hot water heater, and a back up generator for irrigation or consistent cloudy days.
Mind you, there is nothing primitive here. Just a way of living more economically...

They also keep 20 head of cattle and a few horses, but no chickens, they would just be coyote snacks.

[Red Rim]

Some say solar panels never pay off... Hmmmmm

Initial electric start up $35000
Initial solar start up $15000
15 years times 12 months equals 180 months
180 Months times say $150 a month power bill equals $27000
If you subtract the initial cost of start up $15000 than it leaves you with a $12000 savings

Not too shabby

[Prairiepiss]

Some say solar panels never pay off... Hmmmmm

Initial electric start up $35000
Initial solar start up $15000
15 years times 12 months equals 180 months
180 Months times say $150 a month power bill equals $27000
If you subtract the initial cost of start up $15000 than it leaves you with a $12000 savings

Not too shabby

Not sure how you got that number?

If grid electric would have cost $35000 initially. And $27000 for the monthly bill. That's $62000 in cost for grid electric.
If the total cost of the solar system was $15000? That's a $47000 savings.

So if you are comparing it to grid power. It paid for itself the day it was installed. Since it cost less then installing grid power. More the half as much.

Personaly I'm gona have around $4000 to $5000 tied up in our system. Granted we won't have the amount of power available we do now. But we won't have the $200 to $400 monthly bill we do now. I don't have a clue as to how much it would cost to pull grid power to the house. But it would be at least a 1/4 mile pull. If not a half mile. Since the nearest pole is a half mile away. Last time I got grid power pulled. It cost me around $2000 for two poles 100 foot apart. And they only provided to and the first pole. We needed 3 poles.

100 foot apart I would need around 13 poles to get to the road. But there isn't electric at that road yet.

[Red Rim]

I completely agree with your math. I just frequently hear people say that it will take a lifetime to recoup your solar start up. In this situation it was cheaper from day one and just keeps on giving.

In another situation, I have a friend who purchased property even farther into the middle of nowhere. We built a hunting cabin/house for him ( 24*36). He bought a set up from Costco that is super simple. 3 panels, a brain controller that also has a deep cycle battery built in. Super easy to set up. Low voltage in from the panels and 120 out to feed the cabin. I wired the place on one circuit and it feeds it just fine. We keep a Honda generator around if I start getting serious with air compressors or too many power tools. If you have sunshine year round, it can't be beat.

[Prairiepiss]

Wife picked up 40+ peach trees today. Free as long as we pass it forward to someone when we can.
They are probably yearlings. But if I can get them to survive. They will be a nice start for the orchard.

He has peach and Apple trees. She said she might be able to get some Apple trees later.

[Truckinbutch]

Wife picked up 40+ peach trees today. Free as long as we pass it forward to someone when we can.
They are probably yearlings. But if I can get them to survive. They will be a nice start for the orchard.

He has peach and Apple trees. She said she might be able to get some Apple trees later.

Propagating them is a real fine long term investment . I planted apples and pears 40 years ago that are still producing when a late frost doesn't hit them . Planted peaches at the same time . They were doing well until I got a divorce . Fenced the yard and pastured my saddle horses to avoid mowing grass . They ate the peach trees . Got no horses now and don't contemplate another divorce . Planted more peach trees last year and this year .

[Prairiepiss]

The guy she got them from. Runs a organic community garden. Where you buy in each year. Go in and do some work from time to time. And when stuff is ripe. Go in and pick what you want. What isn't picked. He picks and freezes it. Then he donates it to shelters and such. Though the year.

He told my wife. An old man have him 40 peach trees many many years ago. That's what he started with. And that's why he asked that we do the same when we get to the point we can do it. Pass it forward.

The trees are bare roots in a bucket of water. I scounged up every pot and extra buckets I could find. And got them all planted. Ended up being 43 of them. I'm hoping they will last another few weeks. So we can get them down there and planted in the ground. Not exactly the best time of year to do it. But don't have much choice. And its gona take some work to get a place setup to plant them. Since I will have to clear a big area for them. Unless I just plant them in one area this year. And transplant them next spring. Which mite be a better option. And give me enough time to clear the area I want to plant them in. I need to do some research on them.

[Halfbaked]

PP ever killed chickens? I don't mean just killed a chicken and plucked it and ate it. I mean the easy way. Chicken plucking 101
Chicken pluckin made easyhttp://barefootones.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/chicken-plucker-part-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Truckinbutch]

Can't advise you on planting and then replanting . Having them in water right now as bare root I would dissolve some green Miracle Grow or sugar in the water to give them a boost . It is late in the year to plant . What's the alternative ? Let them all die .............? The strong ones will survive .

[Prairiepiss]

The link ain't working for me halfbaked.

TB I got them all planted in pots and buckets. I used a mix of some potting soil I had laying around and composed rabbit pellets. all I can do is hope I get some to survive. But I don't know that leaving them in the buckets over the winter. Will be a good idea. I'm thinking when we get them down there. I will build a garden bed. Amend the soil good with some Rabbit compost. And plant them in that bed. For the rest of this season. Then next spring transplant them to their final homes. That I will start prepping this season. Then use the garden bed for Vegies next year. I've got to start building garden beds anyway. Might as well put one or two to good use. I know its probably not the most optimal way. But we gota work with what we got.

[Truckinbutch]

I forgot about you having all that good rabbit pellet compost . Sounds like you got as good a plan as you can improvise on the spur of the moment .

[Prairiepiss]

We picked up another 8 rabbits this weekend. They were free if we bought the cages. LOL. While we were picking them up. He had a shite ton of mason jars. We got 40 qt jars and a nice bigger pressure canner for $30.

Then the wife is going to trade two rabbits for another 40 qt mason jars.

[Halfbaked]

http://barefootones.wordpress.com/2011/ ... -part-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://barefootones.wordpress.com/2011/ ... -part-two/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Try that one

[Prairiepiss]

I would have to power it with something other then electricity. LOL

Not sure I will have a need to pluck that many at once. We will see. That's gona be the wifes department. She doesn't know that yet. LOL

[Halfbaked]

bicycle powered or 3.5 hp engine. I assume you gonna eat the rabbits? Did you get the flemish giants rabbits? If they eat to much 20 lb rabbit might mistake them for your goats

[Prairiepiss]

No the ones we got over the weekend. Are a lop ear mix. The ones we already have are a Rex flemish mix. Have some new Zealands also. Yeah the rabbits are for meat and fertilizer.

[Halfbaked]

Rabbit makes some pretty fine eating. I was gonna raise rabbits for meat one time and the wife had a fit so I didn't get them. Fried rabbit (like chicken) or rabbit and dumplins is hard to beat. Ive seen flemish giants rabbits go for $10 up to $250. 1 rabbit make 3 or 4 people a weeks worth of eatn. Get 4 or 5 females and a buck and don't eat them for 6 months and they last you for ever.

[Prairiepiss]

We now have 5 bucks and 4 does. Mix match of breeds. She's also selling for pets. So the colors are good for that. And also make for some nice furs.

[cob]

TB I got them all planted in pots and buckets. I used a mix of some potting soil I had laying around and composed rabbit pellets. all I can do is hope I get some to survive. But I don't know that leaving them in the buckets over the winter. Will be a good idea. I'm thinking when we get them down there. I will build a garden bed. Amend the soil good with some Rabbit compost. And plant them in that bed. For the rest of this season. Then next spring transplant them to their final homes. That I will start prepping this season. Then use the garden bed for Vegies next year. I've got to start building garden beds anyway. Might as well put one or two to good use. I know its probably not the most optimal way. But we gota work with what we got.

put them in the ground pot and all for the 3-4 months of remaining grow season and insulate with your sawdust for winter.
next spring you won't have any root damage from digging to transplant,
all my tree clones are started in 4" white pipe 24" long. when the roots start showing out the bottom i drill a hole with
a 5" auger 3' down and refilled to 2' gives them a good start.

[Prairiepiss]

I like that idea. But that's a lot of 4" pipe for 43 trees. LOL.

[bship]

PP, your plan and what you have done so far is a great read, I wish you guys the best of luck.

bship

[SoMo]

Old timers called it "hilling in" digging a trench and planting pots and all covered with mulch or sawdust in your case. They always planted them at a slight angle versus true vertical. Good luck PP if you get down this way give a shout. SoMo

[Prairiepiss]

put them in the ground pot and all for the 3-4 months of remaining grow season and insulate with your sawdust for winter.

Sory I ment to say this to. I thought about this. And would be my plan. If I had enough pots for each tree I have. But as it is. I have some buckets with 3 to 4 trees in them. But I will be doing the sawdust insulation. For many things.


Thanks bship.

Somo I'm not sure when we will ne going down. But I will defiantly let you know. We will have to meet up. At some point.

[SoMo]

Absolutely PP anytime.