Why dont more people run thumpers?

[W Pappy]

Pap, I do 2 runs with whiskies so dont have a problem with proof. But If running a thumper gets me a better yield by compressing heads and tails some, that would be great. Of if 'shootin it' with some feints or whatever, apple cider? for example on my whiskey runs injects a nice flavor, then those would be reasons to build this damn thing.

Jimbo In my line of thinking just by using a thumper you are injecting a med flavored hot steam into a heavy flavored liquid. So in my way of thinking it should pick up more flavor and if you can add to it thru the run you just give it the "Coup de grace I just cant see where you could go wrong.

[Truckinbutch]

I used 2x2x1 tees and a 2x1 reducer . In pipe passes through all to bottom of keg . Vee notched and 1/2" off the bottom . Vapor rises around 1" inlet to top tee and on to condenser . Other tee is for fill pipe . Also welded a 3/4" drain in the bottom .

[W Pappy]

I have my inlet set 1 inch off bottom and outlet flush with bottom of lid.1 inch pipe in 1 inch out.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Im a simple potstiller making whiskey. All my energy goes into recipes, mashing and fermentation. The potstill just makes a withdrawal when Im done.

Ill add my opinion Jimbo has it figured out, as its been said shit in shit out. If you are running a pot still the key to a good drop is in the processes long before you ever light the burner on your still. Put all you can in making the ferments as good as possible and you will get good stuff in the end.

Not saying there is no use for a thumper since there are many that have been listed here in this thread. But I also see that many people view a thumper as a crutch to clean up their messy fermentation practices.

In my opionion there are very few variations on likker that are made from a rig with a thumper that with a little work couldn't be made on a rig without a thumper.

I dont run a thumper, but the main reason is I just havent found enough affordable 15.5 gal kegs to build all the stuff I NEED (mash tun) to make good likker before I go adding something that is not a necessity to making good basic likker.

[W Pappy]

The thumper can save you time give you higher proof in that amount of time can add flavor or subtract it .It tends to produce a cleaner smoother distillate on 1 run if that is a crutch I will take it.That to me is like saying a gin basket is a crutch because you don"t get the flavors in without it.Now not finding parts that are within your budget for a 15.5 keg thumper now that is viable reason to not get started on one.But you take the fella that has a 5 gal. boiler and is just starting out it is very affordable and in my opinion will produce a better drop getting started out.RoodNich you should jump over to my other post Theories & Designs or questions of the Doubler/Thumper keg from time to time if you do get one started would love to hear about it and see some pics.
Jimbo is starting a thumper build as we speak.

[NZChris]

My advice to a newbie with a 5gal pot would be to ferment enough for three charges, put it through, then take their time doing the cuts and blending of the spirit run. That way they get a decent quantity and quality for drinking while doing their next ferment.

If doing a run where you only have a limited supply of ingredients, say fruits & berries you scored cheap or free, I can see a definite advantage in using a thumper, and I am thinking about using one for the peaches in my freezer.

[Truckinbutch]

I made a lot of runs without a thumper . Tried to improve on each run and did . Stillin is a learning process that never stops . When I finally added a thumper I discovered further avenues for improvement and it continues .

[W Pappy]

My advice to a newbie with a 5gal pot would be to ferment enough for three charges, put it through, then take their time doing the cuts and blending of the spirit run. That way they get a decent quantity and quality for drinking while doing their next ferment.

If doing a run where you only have a limited supply of ingredients, say fruits & berries you scored cheap or free, I can see a definite advantage in using a thumper, and I am thinking about using one for the peaches in my freezer.

Here is my theory if the fella with 5 gal. pot puts a half charge in the thumper with the same ferment that is in his boiler he should pick up more flavor and gets a little extra distillate.A hot steam shot into a flavored liquid should pick up flavor.Make 3 strip runs like this then do a spirit run and make your cuts.As for the fruits your on the money that is a big advantage of having a thumper.

[W Pappy]

I made a lot of runs without a thumper . Tried to improve on each run and did . Stillin is a learning process that never stops . When I finally added a thumper I discovered further avenues for improvement and it continues .

Would be greatly appreciated what style of thumper you prefer and any schematics you could provide for us on my other thumper post thanks for the input butch.

[Dan P.]

The thumper can save you time give you higher proof in that amount of time can add flavor or subtract it .It tends to produce a cleaner smoother distillate on 1 run if that is a crutch I will take it.

Pappy, I don't mean to pick on you but you already told us that you have never run without a thumper.

Having used my thumper some more yesterday on a spirit run, I found that it caused a lot of smearing. When I think about it, that makes sense. Some of the vapour coming into the thumper gets recondensed, some does not. That means every fraction, as it comes from the pot, gets spread out over the run, and also mixed with other condensed fractions that it would otherwise not be in contact with coming out of the pot.

And, concerning gin baskets, the gin basket is there because macerating the botanicals gives too harsh a flavour. The botanicals for gin are STRONG tasting! Just the vapour passing through them is enough. Also, the spirit used for making gin should already be rectified.
Now, if I want to get the flavour of a particular fruit that is too scarce to ferment or won't ferment, I personally will macerate it in spirit that is already rectified. No thumper needed, just make a small foreshots cut (somehow there are always foreshots!), the rest you can keep till you get into tails.

In origin, thumpers were used to give a single distillation of mareketable strength spirit. This they do very well. However, they do not appear to be of very ancient usage, maybe 120-130 years? Hard to find a very old photo or print of a pot with a thumper. Which isn't necessarily a disrecommendation, but if you want to go simple and/or traditional, a simple pot still is the way to go. If you want to go hi-tech, go hi-tech. A thumper, in my limited experience, is just lo-tech hi-tech.
But, as I've already said, my own journey with my thumper has only really just begun, so maybe I'm missing something. And while I come accross as being negative about thumpers, I really want to be positive about simple pot distillation, and that if they take a little more of your time and effort, the rewards are commensurate.

[W Pappy]

Dan yes that"s true I have never run without one but have had likker made from a basic SS pot and copper plumbing. Safe setups no plastics involved can you believe that hahaha.I believe I stated earlier that smearing was a inherent factor with this system but in my opinion it only contributes to the over all flavor.On the other hand this is one of things I plan on working on figuring out a way to control the smearing factor.Maybe I am chasing my tail on this thumper thing but,it seems to me when whomever came up with the Idea said good enough.Then down the line higher tech systems prevailed.I don"t know what or if anything has been done to improve the thumper to produce a better product over the last 100 years.I have nothing but time wish I had as much money as I do obsessiveness and time hahaha.

[NZChris]

I don"t know what or if anything has been done to improve the thumper to produce a better product over the last 100 years.

They stacked them on top of each other and made the plated column, but that was way over a hundred years ago.

Appleton's used two inline and control the contents of each thumper, also over a hundred years ago.

For me, it's all about having a target product and designing my equipment to make that with a minimum of fuss and bother. For my uses, say, making my bi-annual supply of pot stilled rum, having a thumper to deal with when doing three or four charge quantities just seems like it would be a PITA. I would making cuts on each run, rather than just the spirit run, and having to deal with the contents of the thumper each time. Without a thumper, I can sit back and relax for the strips, do quick recharges, give the condenser a pull through to clean out the fusels, chuck a bit of saved wash in with the spirit run and get enough of my desired product to last me a couple of years.

[Truckinbutch]

I don't have an exceptional amount of smearing that I can attribute to using my thumper . Even with a strip run with 6 gal of wash in the 15.5 thumper I think that fores and early heads are condensing back down the thumper walls until the entire thing gets up to production temperature .They still get to the condenser first as temps increase rather than mix back in . Just my opinion and I will not be offended if someone explains to me why I am mistaken .

[SoMo]

I'm not stepping over TB, when you add about smearing I can run a single run of good-great wash and run it right and make good cuts and have a great product without smearing to the best of my skills as this is a subtle dance of wash, ferment, distillation with the common factor being operator thru all the stages. Letting each ferment and run carry its character forward. How long does an average thump take to heat up to running temp? What amounts of "shit" as we commonly describe is left in the thump to contaminate or commingle with various stages of the run? Had any one tested or looked at what's caught by the thump vs what's passed in? There's this back and forth tango that keeps me interested and have doubts. NZ I like the pot run too for the flavor texture carry in a single run or good strip then spirit. Do you lose that quality?

[NZChris]

The few times I've stolen the heart out of a strip run, I haven't been impressed enough to keep it, and just tossed it back into the spirit run.

I have done fruit schnapps singles for other people, but I let them make their own cuts. Can't say I was that keen on them, but they reckoned they loved it.

[Truckinbutch]

I'm spending about 1 hr 15 minutes to 1 hr 30 minutes to bring the first drip to the condenser from a cold start up of 12 gal boiler / 6 gal thumper charge .
Think about it this way : with proper loading and operation that oversize thumper like I'm running is just a steam operated boiler with benefits . I'm making my cuts off that secondary boiler just like I would off the primary pot . Benefit is that the steam heat for the secondary is going through the liquid in the thumper and adding to the product rather than just being a heat exchange through convection .
Does that concept seem reasonable to anyone else ?

[SoMo]

Sounds logical to me, just gonna have to build one darn it. Back to the drawing board.

[Truckinbutch]

Sounds logical to me, just gonna have to build one darn it. Back to the drawing board.

That's the same thing some seasoned hands tole me not so long ago . I've not been sorry for taking that advice .

[Usge]

As far as smearing fractions goes...what do you think a pot still does??????

If the boiling point/abv of a potstill is based on the mixture you start with in the pot, and changes as the run progresses...then whatchall think happens inside your thumper? And how does that mixture change over time.

More importantly, how much of your run from the main pot you got to run through your thumper before you can get it up to speed and it settles ? All this determines what kind of blending/smearing and/or cuts you gonna have. You fill your thumper full up with water (or something lower proof than what's in the main pot) you gonna overflow the thing before you ever get it going. If you start with water, you gonna be dilutting the incoming first part of the run and raising the boiling point (and/or time it takes to come to a boil). That means...more of your linear potstill run will pass into the thumper..before it starts to boil the mixture, and that it will come online at a somewhat reduced abv%. This changes the flavor, the cuts...everything. (adjust to your liking).

And truth be told..its not any different than learning to drive a potstill.....once it gets going...run it faster or slower. Athough getting a thumper up to heat requires a good deal of pushing...once it starts to produce...you can run it slower, faster..just like you can a potstill. I run my thumper the same way I run the potstill ...I finger the worm and taste it..and adjust the heat depending upon where I'm at in the run. Dnder used to say....if you want to learn how something works...so you can use it....turn it all one way and taste/smell/observe. Then turn it all the other way and see how it changes things. From that point, you should be able to find the "middle" and/or find where you like it. Trying to adjust things one click at a time ain't enough difference to really grasp what's going on. That's how you eliminate some of the variables in figuring this out.

As far as smearing goes..I've certainly experienced it. But not just on a thumper. My earliest build...using the 2in1 inlet pipe in wooden barrel attached to my copper 5 gal gooseneck rig from the Colonel...smeared everything it ran....bad. Blanked every run. Nothing but obvious heads into obvious tails. I got lots of advice and tried most of it. I shortened the lynearm, raised the thumper..preheated the thumper, changed the still charge, varied the thumper charge and volume..etc...and the heat. It just smeared less...or more but always smeared more than I cared for. My new rig doesn't do that. I "can" get it to smear more by using more water/volume in the thumper and pushing the heat more. I've put my thoughts about all this in the main thumper thread, along with images, etc. so I wont' rehash it here. I would just also mention... I've also experienced smearing/blanked runs even on a 4 bubble plate rig with a dephlemator! Wouldn't think it would be possible but somehow I found a way to do it. And certainly Iv'e experienced smeared runs on a potstill. I'm not sure that's something specifically inherently an issue with thumpers...anymore so than any other tool you use — even accounting for subjective taste differences.

In regards to proof... Single runs of wash for me on a thumper..started a few points higher in abv, and barely flattened the linear fall in abv along the way. The more abv you add to the starting still charge..the more it flattens the curve, while adding less so in that regard to proof. A good pot full of low-wines attached to a thumper is an entirely different experience than a pot full of wash. I don't find single wash thumper runs that much different in terms of scope (falling abv, etc) than single potstill runs. It just happens a few points higher in abv. If you are looking for raising the proof on a single run to 75-80% starting with 10% or less abv mash/wash....there are probably more efficient ways to do it ..some sort of reflux condensor CM, etc..that you can control how and when that reflux occurs during the run. One exception to that might be what goose refers to as "shootin" a keg....or adding higher proof to the thumper later in the run as the proof starts to fall off more — haven't tried that one yet. As I said..my experience with single runs...is that they fall "all" the way through the run....not just at the end. But, certainly there's a point where the flavor is still good into tails side...where you could boost up the purity/abv of it a bit. Personally, I find raising the proof on some of these parts doesn't necessarily make them necessarily taste better...depending upon what you are running. I think I'm trying to say is distilling wash to higher purity is NOT the main benefit that comes to my mind when thinking about thumpers ...and that's particularly true of single run wash. In regards to proof...the main benefit would be raising the "aggregate" proof through the middle of a run (dependent upon having enough abv to start with to make that happen). You'd need to start somewhere near 30% for that to take place. I've done up to 25% and all it did was "bend" the abv curve slightly at the start and very end...the middle still fell steadily jar by jar. Once you get over that threshold..it will start to "stick" proof in the middle more...and bend the curve at beginning and end more.

This all said..I do agree with Dan P that probably a good idea to work with an learn a simple pot still real good first...since the thumper basically works off the same principals...then add a thumper later to give it a try...rather than trying to just jump into it head first. Adding a thumper up front...might make for a bit much to chew to start. And getting the basics down with a pot up front...would help a lot in how people put these things together.

Lastly, goose. I think one of the things missed in what he said...was that he was talking about "brandy". Making "fruit"...so it smells like fruit (even at higher purity levels). How to get the purity up, and keep the "(s)cent" in it. The little bit of fruit I've run...I know that some fruit..the flavor is in the heads. You throw the heads out...you don't get any fruit flavor. He was suggesting in his example of "shooting" the thumper..to recycle the heads back into the tails of the run. This was for brandy— although the concept could be applied elsewhere. But, he also suggested...all of these various methods employed...might be useful in other ways if you thought about it a little bit. (ie., a vanilla bean in the middle of a run, etc). And he also suggested the things available to us today..would make further experimentation possible..that just would not have been as easy to come by back in the day (if at all). So, particularly if you plan on making brandy.....you might want to take heed of some of the nuggets he just threw out for you based on what he gleened from them ole' boys that used to coulda run a long time ago.....that he didn't have nothing to do with.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Usge, that was a wealth of information. Where is your thread about your smearing issues? I would like read that to get a good understanding before I start running my thumper.

[Usge]

Hey there, ...sorry to be late. I'm not online that much anymore. Here's my first thumper thread
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=16203

You might recognize the design. Actually, at the time, if I recall correctly...(could be wrong...been a while) nobody had actually built a single inline thump head...could be totally wrong on that...lots of competent builders at that time doing all kinds of stuff. That was actually OD's (Old Dog's) design. That rig smeared everything I ran through it. I ran it slow, I ran it fast. I varied the still charge/thump charge...and it's mostly documented there.

And it was part of my early experience with thumpers...while everybody was telling me it should stick proof through the run even with wash/mash. That's what I was looking to happen....not . I think this thread also has actual run data in it to show what I think most people who've run thumpers know.

I've got excel curves/charts averaged from multiple thump runs over time...I've not shared. Perhaps I will one day. Just never saw the need given anybody who's actually run a thumper knows what it does. So, my advice is...get one...and run it. And see for yourself. Been plenty of people since then run larger version of the single inline design who are very happy with the results. Whether that means they just like heads/tails/smearing...or ...the added dimension actually changes something about it....I have no idea. I never ran another version of this design after this. (so...grain of salt.)

My advice" don't try too hard to "not" make mistakes. You aren't going to learn anyting that way. Dunder used to say...turn it all the way one way...see what happens. Turn it all the way the other...see. Then decide where to put it. When you make too subtle changes...hard to tell what the difference is.
So, take this with a grain of salt. You got to see for yourself.

Usge

[BoisBlancBoy]

Usge thanks for getting back. I know I'll have a bunch of tinkering to do even after I get some experience with the thumper, but that's half the fun.

But reading well documented information always interests me. I feel guilty sometimes because I sit and read on this website so much. I'm pretty sure in the past year since finding this I have done more reading than I have in a long time.

[Dan P.]

My advice" don't try too hard to "not" make mistakes. You aren't going to learn anyting that way. Dunder used to say...turn it all the way one way...see what happens. Turn it all the way the other...see. Then decide where to put it. When you make too subtle changes...hard to tell what the difference is.
So, take this with a grain of salt. You got to see for yourself.

Usge

Very wise words.

[W Pappy]

My advice" don't try too hard to "not" make mistakes. You aren't going to learn anyting that way. Dunder used to say...turn it all the way one way...see what happens. Turn it all the way the other...see. Then decide where to put it. When you make too subtle changes...hard to tell what the difference is.
So, take this with a grain of salt. You got to see for yourself.

Usge

Very wise words.
I concur Dan P!!!

[Buccaneer Bob]

You know, I am sure I'm going to ruffle some feathers here, but I have looked at thumpers a thousand different ways, and my position is that they're based on false economics. I even did a spreadsheet one time to prove it to myself.

But here's what it boils down to: give one guy a pot still, a thumper, and some wash to distill (with dilution water in his thumper); give another guy the exact same pot still, the exact same heat source, the exact same amount of wash to distill (with the exact same amount of dilution water, except added to the still on the second run); have the first guy distill everything in one run; have the second guy do two runs (the first run fast and the second run slow); and both guys are going to finish at nearly the exact same time and end up with nearly the exact same finished product.

Yes, there are some subtle differences between the two setups. For instance, it would be a lot easier to load fruit or grain in a thumper and distill without scorching it than it would be to load the same fruit or grain in a boiler and do a second run without scorching it.

But thumpers are not magical, and they don't give "something for nothing". It takes a certain amount of time and heat to distill something a certain way, and thumpers don't change that.

So go ahead and flame me. I'm ready.

[Usge]

I never got much out of a thumper single footin it. And I agree with some of what you've said there Bob. However, the one place I would say is different for me is on double-running (apples to apples). When I double run using a thumper...it not only raises the aggregate proof of my cut (cleaner), it does so deeper into the run (ie, tails) where the flavors I'm after are. That changes the flavor profile for me vs double running the same low-wines straight through a pot where the purity level is falling more linearly. And changes where I cut. That's a notable difference to me between the two.

Taste...being subjective and all...is another thing. I've made good likker and bad likker from the same stuff. Don't seem to matter much what I use

[Dan P.]

But here's what it boils down to: give one guy a pot still, a thumper, and some wash to distill (with dilution water in his thumper); give another guy the exact same pot still, the exact same heat source, the exact same amount of wash to distill (with the exact same amount of dilution water, except added to the still on the second run); have the first guy distill everything in one run; have the second guy do two runs (the first run fast and the second run slow); and both guys are going to finish at nearly the exact same time and end up with nearly the exact same finished product.

Speak for yourself! I'm no expert, but I can make a better product from two runs on a pot-still than one run with a thumper. What the thumper is making you is time, not quality. The end product will not be nearly the exact same.

But why not read through this thread? The contoversy you court has been courted, wooed, bedded, divorced and remarried a number of times over!

The upshot being; do what you want, according to your own lights, as that is what you will eventually end up doing anyway.