Any Electronic Engineers here?

[kamilavalamp]

I figure some of you guys here must be electronic engineers. I'm doing research into powering an off the grid fallout shelter.
My Idea is to power it year round using only car batteries and 12V Power Inverters. It would have a TV, Computer, Lights, all the comforts of home. I would like to give each room it's own dedicated power supply using this method. Is this Idea feasible? My main concern is how long each battery would last before It had to be recharged\replaced? I plan on using the heavy duty 4000 amp car batteries that people use to power their sound systems and I wouldn't want to be recharging\replacing batteries every day. My second question is how much juice things around the house use up? Would 1 or 2 of these batteries per room be enough to do the job. I only have very basic skill with general electronics so any advice would be appreciated especially if there's some variable here I don't know about. -Thanks in Advance.

[Jimbo]

4000 amp ?! Your post tells me you havent done a lick of research yet. Read this for a couple hours and then come back and ask your questions. http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycl ... y-faq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It will tell you most everything you want to know. Battery capacitys, how to charge them, how much you need to power whatever you want to power etc.

If you need a fallout shelter. What makes you think there will be anything on the other end of that TV antenna or computer link?

[Tater]

4000 amp ?! Your post tells me you havent done a lick of research yet. Read this for a couple hours and then come back and ask your questions. http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycl ... y-faq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It will tell you most everything you want to know. Battery capacitys, how to charge them, how much you need to power whatever you want to power etc.

If you need a fallout shelter. What makes you think there will be anything on the other end of that TV antenna or computer link?

+1

[shadylane]

Car batteries are rated by cranking amps.
That's something like 500-700 cranking amps, they can give this for a couple of seconds to start the engine.
The same car battery would be rated for something like 70 ampere hours, in other words amps X hours.
So your average car battery might supply 3 amps continuously for 24 hours.
Sadly there's another problem with automotive batteries, they don't like being discharged all the way.
If their run down too many times, they are ruined.
Solar power has become cheap and efficient, but storing electricity in a battery hasn't kept pace.
Give me a little while and I might find a link for what your looking for.

[shadylane]

This isn't the link I was looking for but it will keep you busy reading for awhile.
http://otherpower.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Bigbob]

Not an electronic engineer by any means but my cousin had a ranch that was off grid and used deep cell batteries ( I think that's what their called) they charged up by solar and when he ran the generator.

[Appalachia-Shiner]

I think that an AR 15 might be more useful than your computer....
You WILL have unwanted visitors.

[hellbilly007]

BigBob, I think the batteries you're talking about are deep cycle. I'm not sure though. Deep cycle batteries can handle being drained down to no charge, repeatedly. A car battery can't withstand such a deep discharge.

Kamilavalamp, if going in the direction you speak of you should have a dedicated room for the batteries, with proper ventilation. If you're concerned with staying in touch with the outside world I suggest researching HAM radio. As Jimbo said, what makes you think that there will be anything on the other end of that antenna. Just like internet, they depend on servers that depend on electricity. In a SHTF scenario there will be no electric powering the servers. Just like distilling, you should take it upon yourself to research so your questions doesn't sound like you're asking for spoon feeding.

[Bushman]

BigBob, I think the batteries you're talking about are deep cycle. I'm not sure though. Deep cycle batteries can handle being drained down to no charge, repeatedly. A car battery can't withstand such a deep discharge.

Kamilavalamp, if going in the direction you speak of you should have a dedicated room for the batteries, with proper ventilation. If you're concerned with staying in touch with the outside world I suggest researching HAM radio. As Jimbo said, what makes you think that there will be anything on the other end of that antenna. Just like internet, they depend on servers that depend on electricity. In a SHTF scenario there will be no electric powering the servers. Just like distilling, you should take it upon yourself to research so your questions doesn't sound like you're asking for spoon feeding.

We ruined 1/2 of the 12 batteries used for power at the cabin last fall when we made apple cider grinding with an electric chipper. This year we will just use a generator, once drained they did not come back.

[kamilavalamp]

BigBob, I think the batteries you're talking about are deep cycle. I'm not sure though. Deep cycle batteries can handle being drained down to no charge, repeatedly. A car battery can't withstand such a deep discharge.

Kamilavalamp, if going in the direction you speak of you should have a dedicated room for the batteries, with proper ventilation. If you're concerned with staying in touch with the outside world I suggest researching HAM radio. As Jimbo said, what makes you think that there will be anything on the other end of that antenna. Just like internet, they depend on servers that depend on electricity. In a SHTF scenario there will be no electric powering the servers. Just like distilling, you should take it upon yourself to research so your questions doesn't sound like you're asking for spoon feeding.

I don't want the tv and computer for staying in touch with the outside world. I have a CB for that. I know about how the satellites and all that will be down. The Tv and computer are simply for storing and enjoying my collection of music and videos. I want to ride out the apocalypse in style in an hidden underground shelter. I already learned about underground construction and how to build my shelter and I've drawn up the blueprints. Now I'm just trying to figure out how to provide off the grid power. I don't want to use solar power since the place will be completely hidden underground. I never heard of deep cell batteries but if they can be recharged repeatably by a generator they sound like a good idea. Especially if I can tune that generator to run off of E90 or E100. I have done extensive research on everything except the electronic aspects of my project. I just learned that regular batteries have a risk of exploding when repeatably recharged. Do deep cell batteries carry that same risk?

[likker liker]

Yes! They need to be vented

[Jimbo]

Batteries produce hydrogen gas when being charged. Hydrogen explodes nicely if not vented off.

[woodshed]

According to Oxford dictionary the apocalypse is the complete final destruction of the world.
Just what are your plans when you run out of food and your batteries finally give out?
Sooner or later you will have to come out of your hole in the ground.

Just sayin.

Although a great movie how many times can a guy watch Point Break? " I love this ground rush shit! "

[cob]

Batteries produce hydrogen gas when being charged. Hydrogen explodes nicely if not vented off.

actually charging batteries produces hydrogen and oxygen in exactly the correct proportions to be recombined to make water.

that is the same process used for most liquid fuel rockets (think Saturn 5's and ICBM's ) wanna take a ride?

( best ricky Riccardo voice ) you got a lot of readin to do

[kamilavalamp]

I originally planned to have a generator in it's own vented room so I can use that room for the batteries as it's already in the blueprints. I don't know what I'll do when I run out of canned food or the batteries die, I'll probably be in the same boat as everyone else. But In the meantime I want to live in peace and quiet and comfort deep in the earth as long as I can. Even if the world doesn't end I'll still have a underground mansion with electricity, a shootin range, a distillery, and everything else I could possibly want. Plus I'd have a place where I'd never have to worry about the in-laws showing up. Isn't that what everyone wants in the end?

[Jimbo]

Plus I'd have a place where I'd never have to worry about the in-laws showing up.

Youre gonna tell your wife her parents need to die?

[likker liker]

But In the meantime I want to live in peace and quiet and comfort deep in the earth as long as I can.
Jimbo
It sounds like maybe the wife doesn't too go underground but then you can count on the ventilation pipes are going to get plugged up

[kamilavalamp]

Plus I'd have a place where I'd never have to worry about the in-laws showing up.

Youre gonna tell your wife her parents need to die?

nah I'm not married, it's my sister in law that I want to keep out.

[Jimbo]

haha, oh right, I have a couple of them too Id like to see sucking post apocalyptic radioactive dust.... oh sorry, was that harsh?

[kamilavalamp]

haha, oh right, I have a couple of them too Id like to see sucking post apocalyptic radioactive dust.... oh sorry, was that harsh?

I had a real good one about how they could mutate so their outside reflect their inside but I'm trying to be nice today. Lord I apologize.

[kamilavalamp]

It sounds like name brand deep cycle batteries are the way to go. And I can recharge them with a generator. Any other advice? How do I figure out how many I need?

[Jimbo]

How do I figure out how many I need?

come on man, you know its not a simple answer, and you dont really expect people to write you a book here explaining the whole shpiel do you??

Start by adding up all your power needs, take note of voltage, current and power listed. ie, 120V 50W bulb, 12V 1.5A pump bla bla. Convert everything to watts and add it up. Deep cycle batteries are spec'd in amp/hours (Ah). Power (watts) = volts x amps. A 70Ah battery is good for 70A x 12V = 840 watts for one hour (watt/hour). For 120V AC stuff you need an inverter. They arent 100% efficient so you gotta factor the losses in for that too. Put it in the power budget.

There, thats everythign you need to know. power in power out. Now you gotta do a bunch of homework on your devices, and simple math to convert everything to power.

Read man, read. Youre not gonna design a fallout shelter power system on a whim.

[kamilavalamp]

Thanks, now I know what I have to do.

[Jimbo]

make sure you read input power not output power on all them stickers. Youre feeding it power for it to do its thing and often times make another form of output power. You need to know what to feed it.

[InglisHill]

I originally planned to have a generator in it's own vented room so I can use that room for the batteries as it's already in the blueprints. I don't know what I'll do when I run out of canned food or the batteries die, I'll probably be in the same boat as everyone else. But In the meantime I want to live in peace and quiet and comfort deep in the earth as long as I can. Even if the world doesn't end I'll still have a underground mansion with electricity, a shootin range, a distillery, and everything else I could possibly want. Plus I'd have a place where I'd never have to worry about the in-laws showing up. Isn't that what everyone wants in the end?

Sounds expensive, why not spend the extra few dollars and get hire someone who knows what they are doing to design it?

[Bigbob]

You might want to check out this magazine called Backwoods homes. It carries all kind of information on living off grid.

[bearriver]

Thanks, now I know what I have to do.

This is what you have to do: http://www.falloutshelter.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[HDNB]

wouldn't it be easier to shake out a lawn chair, grab a bottle of your finest, your biggest, fattest RYO cigar and watch the show?

I mean, after all...how often do you get the opportunity to have a front row seat to a thermo nuclear explosion?

save all that diggin, when you could be livin and sinnin' instead of fearin' of dyin.

[shadylane]

I'm doing things that will make my kids, grandkids, grate grandkids.... lives easier after I'm gone. Glad my ancestors didn't dig a hole to hide in. The world isn't going to end in the near future. Make your plans accordingly.
Investing in solar panels is a good idea, Why hide in a hole when the sun is shining outside.

[Jimbo]

wouldn't it be easier to shake out a lawn chair, grab a bottle of your finest, your biggest, fattest RYO cigar and watch the show?

I mean, after all...how often do you get the opportunity to have a front row seat to a thermo nuclear explosion?

save all that diggin, when you could be livin and sinnin' instead of fearin' of dyin.

Thats about my speed right there. If most everyone I love is dead, earth is a f 'ed nuclear winter and existence is reduced to living in a hole, f that. Im breaking out the lawnchair, a stoggie and my best bottle.

And Appalacia is right,you best be packin an AR-15 or 3. And be ready to shoot folk, starting with drawing a line at how many of your extended family are you gonna fit, and how many youre gonna have to take out afterwards. Like youre sister inlaw, wheres the line, him, her or both? Cause if the SHTF, and youre chillin in a cozy hole with some Pink Floyd kicken on the box and cans of garbanzo beans, you gonna be havin visitors to deal with, startin with your extended family first.

But since we're gettin pheelosophical, Im not sure I subscribe to that form of SHTF scenario. I think its more likely China will decide to become 'the' economic and military superpower, play the financial card they're holding on us, cripple our economy overnight, launch us into hell worse than 1929, then many of the 2.5 billion move in, kick us off the golf courses they already own and take up residence in China-West, especially since they polluted the living hell out of their country. I dont think a hole in the ground will help in that SHTF scenario. But things might could very well revert to the self sufficient survive and the rest not so much.