Impact of forest fire smoke on fruit for distilling

[OtisT]

Hi folks. I’m curious about the impact of forest fire smoke on fruit for distilling.

Currently, massive climate change induced fires rage across the western US. Orange skies and the sickly smell of creosote and other nasties extend across the major fruit growing regions of CA, OR, WA and more. Other countries like Australia also see this kind of large scale devastation all too frequently.

One thing I have read is that wine makers will not use grapes grown downwind of fires like these. Right now, that means a massive super mega shit ton of fruit will go to waste this year. Sad.

I’m curious what folks know about fermenting/distilling grapes or other fruit that was grown downwind of major fires like these. I assume that smell will carry through a ferment and distillation (think peated whiskey) but that’s just my guess. Not sure if washing will be enough. What has been your experience with this?

Otis

[Deplorable]

I was thinking about this on my way to work, as grape harvest is picking up and my friends at Leony's Cellars are about to start picking up their orders. I'll have to ask him his thoughts on the smoke.

[Beerswimmer]

I'd guess it'll be detectable. My friend had a case of wine at his wedding that was near a fire and it was very obvious in the wine. Very, very good too.

[Yummyrum]

Is the no use of fruit a health reason or just wine snobbery ?
If its not for health reasons , it seems to me that its a shear waste of good fruit . Man we have had so much wastage this year ,for one reason or other . Smokey grappa sounds like a winner to me

But what is in that smoke when it has consumed homes, factories and vehicles ,
While there are chemical nasties that may end up in wine , would they distill over .?

[Chauncey]

That was my first thought, smokey grappa sounds good, but that smoke may be toxic its not like its all white oak and mesquite. Everything from evergreens to synthetics and even animals mixed in those clouds

[Deplorable]

This is what I got from Salvador at Leony's Cellars
"It really all depends on the intensity of the smoke and how long it lingers in the vineyard. If the smoke is not too intense it will add subtle smokiness to the finished wines what could impart smokey aromas. Too much smoke obviously could impart some unpleasant aromas in the grapes affected by it."

Personally, I think that smoke in my white wines would be off-putting. but I'd welcome it in Malbecs, Merlots, and Cabs.
Larger wineries that buy from multiple AVAs would likely blend the wines from different AVAs to reduce the aromas if needed, and still make a great red blend.
Further, I would suspect, ( and I may have to discuss this with Salvador over a glass of wine) you could play with the yeast strains and impart some aromas that would mask or reduce the smokiness of the affected grapes.
The last time we had big fires in Washington, the wines were not bad at all from any of the AVAs I had wines from.
There were great Malbecs, Cab-Francs and Merlots after the fires in 2012 that affected AVAs in Okanogan, Chelan, and the columbia basin.
As a Matter of fact, some of my favorite red wines are 2012's that I need to start drinking before they turn.
The Blue Creek fire in 2015 also made some smokey wines from the AVAs around Walla Walla.
Then there was the Carlton Complex fire in 2014 that burned over 250,000 acres. I dont recall a wine shortage that year...

[zach]

I picked some zinfandel in the Lodi AVA last week. The visibility was less than 3 miles due to smoke. The brix was low 17-22, but there were enough raisins that I might be ok for a decent wine. I'll press next weekend and we'll see if the grappa is smokey.

[FuzzNFroth]

I'm sorry for reviving an old topic, but this is something that I have first hand experience with. It is also what led me into this hobby and HD.

Our area was hit hard with smoke from the 2020 Camp fire. We were socked in for several days. The smoke tainted everyone's wines. Most of the wineries opted to collect insurance for lost crop. One spent a lot of money filtering their wine. While it did clean it up, the taint was still noticeable. Another winery sent their wines out to be distilled into high proof neutral. They are using it for fortification of their Port style wines. Their winemaker encouraged me to do the same with our wines. I was able borrow a Boka from a friend and after doing a lot of reading here, started running the wines through the still. It took quite a few runs to get through about 150g of wine. From that I was able to fill up a couple of BadMo's, a used 10L bourbon barrel and did some OEG. The people who have tried it have said that they do not detect any smoke.

This is what our vineyard looked like while the fire was going on.

[Renhoekk]

I’m curious what folks know about fermenting/distilling grapes or other fruit that was grown downwind of major fires like these. I assume that smell will carry through a ferment and distillation (think peated whiskey) but that’s just my guess. Not sure if washing will be enough. What has been your experience with this?

Otis

I know a distiller that does this. He buys the smoke-damaged wine for cheap and runs it through a reflux column still 3 times. After each run, it’s filtered through charcoal and rested for 30 days. Apparently the resting helps the smokey compounds dissipate.

[jonnys_spirit]

And here I am trying to infuse smoke into my agave spirits and finding that it's hard to bring over into the final distillate.

I haven't tried it yet but I have a theory that smoke may more water soluble than etoh soluble so maybe infusing into lower abv (or straight water) brings over more smoke flavor into the distillate. I was going to attempt a water only infusion as a test and potentially be able to use the distilled smoked water to proof down straight agave spirits with the desired outcome being a fully clear smoky product at the end of the day...

Cheers,
jonny

[Ben]

My experience with smoke in beer is the smoke fades pretty quickly, a heavily smoked (beech wood) imperial stout will be almost unpalatable off the ferment, great after a few months, but 2 years in a bottle and the smoke is all but gone. Same deal with commercial beers. I opened a 2018 Smoked Yeti a few weeks ago, smoke was gone. I've had a few older bottles of Alaska smoked stout (alder), they do the same thing.

I have a bourbon style whiskey that has been on oak for about 2 years, I used around 10% oak smoked grain in the mash bill, it was quite noticeable at first, and the mash smelled like a fire, and the aroma and flavor are almost gone now.

But, you can get very old scotches that hold their smokiness, so intensity and type of smoke must matter?


I would gather that cheap fruit, make wine and bulk age it. See how it is in a year, 2 years, maybe longer depending on how it is developing. If it is still not improving then distill it to brandy. If that is still too much neutralize it I guess. I love a smokey red, so I would probably leave it as wine, or do as Deplorable mentioned and blend it.

And here I am trying to infuse smoke into my agave spirits and finding that it's hard to bring over into the final distillate.

I haven't tried it yet but I have a theory that smoke may more water soluble than etoh soluble so maybe infusing into lower abv (or straight water) brings over more smoke flavor into the distillate. I was going to attempt a water only infusion as a test and potentially be able to use the distilled smoked water to proof down straight agave spirits with the desired outcome being a fully clear smoky product at the end of the day...

Cheers,
jonny

You can "liquify" smoke.

[Renhoekk]

But, you can get very old scotches that hold their smokiness, so intensity and type of smoke must matter?

It’s similar to grapes that are tainted by bushfires….the wet malted barley is dried in a very smokey kiln, sometimes for a day or longer. It’s really the intensity and time that matters - a short puff of a smoker at home pales in comparison to constant, heavy smoke exposure for hours and hours.

[The Baker]

We have had severe bushfire smoke damage in wine in this district from time to time.
And the wine is awful.
I have made brandy (not sure if it is Good brandy but I like it) from unsaleable wine both red and white.
But I can't remember if any of that was smoke damaged.

Renkoekk's comment was interesting:
'I know a distiller that does this. He buys the smoke-damaged wine for cheap and runs it through a reflux column still 3 times. After each run, it’s filtered through charcoal and rested for 30 days. Apparently the resting helps the smoky compounds dissipate.'

I wonder if that would work the same through a pot still?
Geoff

[jonnys_spirit]

But, you can get very old scotches that hold their smokiness, so intensity and type of smoke must matter?

It’s similar to grapes that are tainted by bushfires….the wet malted barley is dried in a very smokey kiln, sometimes for a day or longer. It’s really the intensity and time that matters - a short puff of a smoker at home pales in comparison to constant, heavy smoke exposure for hours and hours.

In my last experiment I filled a 1g jug (along with about 1/2c. of spirits) with dense oak smoke and shook it until all the smoke was infused into the likker. I did that 16 times so about 15 gallons of smoke infused into about 1/2c. of likker (estimate 15g with a little loss). Added that liquid smoke to the spirit run which was also 15 gallons of spirit run charge agave low wines + feints. I did it that way so I could easily measure and repeat or modify the process.. Next time I'd try 30 or 45 gallons of smoke - maybe 60 gallons or I may try water...

Anyway, smoke isn't as easy to capture through the distillation process as one might think in my experiments.

Traditionally, the peat in the scotch and the oak in the mezcals is typically infused early on in the process either into the grain or into the pina's prior to fermentation... I did one experiment way back where I smoked a few sweet taters that I added to an agave wash. Might need to revisit that approach too since it's closer to tradition although I'd like to figure out 100% agave with nothing else - i've been unable to source pinas.

Worthwhile experimenting with if you like that kind of thing.

If you're trying to get rid of smoke I feel like a heavy reflux will clean it up and with a straight pot still it's probably going to be fairly subtle unless there's a ton of smoke infusion going on..

Interested to hear about others experiences

Cheers,
j