White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
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White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Ive been working towards putting together a business plan for a craft distillery up here in B.C., Canada and would love to get some thoughts and opinions from some fellow distillers. Im strongly leaning towards producing a white whiskey/moonshine product because it's relatively easy and cheap to produce, and no one else in this province is doing so. In fact i believe there are only a couple of distillers in the entire country making a white rye/whiskey. Where as there are about 20+ craft distillers that have popped up recently in bc (due in large part to new legislation waving the excise tax for craft distillers when selling out of their tasting room or directly to restaurants/bars) and they are almost all making either vodka or gin. We have a VERY limited selection of shine on store shelves locally. Limited to Ole smokey white lighting, cherries and Georgia Moon Peach. And their marketing is non-existent.
one of my concerns is that white whiskey is obviously not a spirit someone with a refined palate would particularly choose. This article expresses my concerns well (http://www.dcfoodies.com/2011/04/white- ... trend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow). Due to this, my main focus will be selling flavored moonshine (apple pie, peach pie, pineapple ect) and marketing towards the younger crowd. But also filling barrels and age whiskey for sale down the road.
Ive worked in bars and clubs for the past 10 years and its given me the chance to observe the demographic that comes in and spends alot. Its primarily 19-25 year olds looking for shots that taste good. I cant count how many flavored shots we sell every weekend.
Any thoughts, ideas or recommendations on marketing or anything else would be very much appreciated.
one of my concerns is that white whiskey is obviously not a spirit someone with a refined palate would particularly choose. This article expresses my concerns well (http://www.dcfoodies.com/2011/04/white- ... trend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow). Due to this, my main focus will be selling flavored moonshine (apple pie, peach pie, pineapple ect) and marketing towards the younger crowd. But also filling barrels and age whiskey for sale down the road.
Ive worked in bars and clubs for the past 10 years and its given me the chance to observe the demographic that comes in and spends alot. Its primarily 19-25 year olds looking for shots that taste good. I cant count how many flavored shots we sell every weekend.
Any thoughts, ideas or recommendations on marketing or anything else would be very much appreciated.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
White whisky is somthing I like... unfortunately I have a well experienced pallet and most of the white dogs taste like dog. It can be done but you will go broke doing it if that's your main product.
You know what sells so do that and do the white dog on the side but do it well.
You know what sells so do that and do the white dog on the side but do it well.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I wouldn't even try to market a white wisky I wold make it on the side and if it's good the word will get out, but I don't think it can be a main long term product.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Well the flavor infused booze would be made with a white whiskey. If I use a "vodka" and call it a vodka, im just another flavored vodka on the shelf out of hundreds. I realize it may taste better using neutral spirit, maybe not. But labeling it as moonshine and serving it in mason jars sets me apart from the rest of the crowd and gives it an exciting/mysterious appeal to it. And from talking to people they seem to appreciate the feel of a mason jar, its great for passing around a fire or just plain fun to sip out of. Moonshine is definitely in right now with all the attention it has been getting on tv and I dont think I can listen to the local country station for more than five songs without hearing the word moonshine.
Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
It's been done a dozen times in my area, and oddly enough I enjoy checking it out. Mostly the releases are to 'fund' the aged spirits, but the white bourbon is quite popular, the white rye was really good too (imo) but not very popular overall, white whiskey just confuses the masses and is best kept in a private stash. With all the new craft distilleries popping up I am sure there will be more examples, and maybe one day I too will be a contributor.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Im just worried about trying to go up against a ton of other craft distillers that are all making vodkas and gins locally. Theres nothing setting me apart from them.rubber duck wrote:I wouldn't even try to market a white wisky I wold make it on the side and if it's good the word will get out, but I don't think it can be a main long term product.
I was hoping to model myself after Ole Smokey brand. They seem to be doing something right.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
This past summer I was in a liquor store in an area where moonshine is HUGE. Needless to say the shelves were packed with mason jar "moonshine" for sale. All except for one brand named "platte valley moonshine". They had a sweet old school jug with cork top on the shelves. I bought a bottle for no other reason than it stood out to me. A few months later a thread popped up here and several members said the same thing. The white whiskey in the bottle was pretty good tasting to my uneducated pallet. And I will tell you if I ever see it in a store again I will get another bottle just for the jug.
The only other thing that set this brand apart from the others is that it said it was aged for 3 years if I remember correctly. All of the other moonshines advertise how fresh they are, I guess that sounds good to people who don't know better!
The only other thing that set this brand apart from the others is that it said it was aged for 3 years if I remember correctly. All of the other moonshines advertise how fresh they are, I guess that sounds good to people who don't know better!
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
- cranky
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I believe that the novelty of legal "Moonshine" has worn off. My local places have stopped carrying all but the 2 largest and best known brands. Don't know about where you are but here in Wa there are a lot of micro distilleries and at least half of them were marketing something called "Moonshine" and virtually none of it is making it to any stores in my area any more. I believe it was a fad and that fad is over and it is too late to try to ride that short lived gravy train. I'm sure there are some localized exceptions to this but I believe they are simply that, localized exceptions.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I guess it just goes to show that people will only drink so much crappy likker before they quit buying it. Maybe QUALITY of product would be a better marketing strategy. You give people a big bunch of choices, they're likely to choose the best of the bunch. If you get a reputation for producing crap, you will soon fade from memory (and existence).cranky wrote:I believe that the novelty of legal "Moonshine" has worn off. My local places have stopped carrying all but the 2 largest and best known brands. Don't know about where you are but here in Wa there are a lot of micro distilleries and at least half of them were marketing something called "Moonshine" and virtually none of it is making it to any stores in my area any more. I believe it was a fad and that fad is over and it is too late to try to ride that short lived gravy train. I'm sure there are some localized exceptions to this but I believe they are simply that, localized exceptions.
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- cranky
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
That's true, a lot of crap has been marketed as "Moonshine" Funny enough, even an aged Tequila Some companies tried it as a way to break into the market, some just tried to make a quick buck and dumped cheap watered down GNS into a bottle or mason jar and wrote a nice marketing story. I'll hold back my personal opinions because they are pretty well known and I don't want to upset Woodshed, again , but the fact is a lot of people tried and are no longer able to sell their product as "Moonshine"S-Cackalacky wrote: I guess it just goes to show that people will only drink so much crappy likker before they quit buying it. Maybe QUALITY of product would be a better marketing strategy. You give people a big bunch of choices, they're likely to choose the best of the bunch. If you get a reputation for producing crap, you will soon fade from memory (and existence).
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
My Smoke Shine sells very well. It is not marketed as a moonshine but as a whiskey that mixes very well in place of any clear liquor. It's Apple Pie version is my best seller. Of course as it is the hardest one to make.
Quality is what keeps you on the shelf.
Quality is what keeps you on the shelf.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I've been following your threads woodshed and my vision doesn't seem to different then yours. I'd love to try a few bottles of your stuff if you have any canadian distributors?woodshed wrote:My Smoke Shine sells very well. It is not marketed as a moonshine but as a whiskey that mixes very well in place of any clear liquor. It's Apple Pie version is my best seller. Of course as it is the hardest one to make.
Quality is what keeps you on the shelf.
I agree 100% if it tastes like shit, no amount of snazzy marketing or "cool" factor is going to get you too far. And of course I would strive to make the beat product available but it's going to be hard to make an unaged whiskey as good as an aged one. That being said, I do plan on making aged whiskey aswell.
I'm also hesitant as marketing it blatantly as moonshine, like yourself my distillery name has the word "shine" in it. That's kind of the crossroad I'm at. To go towards the ole smoky route and bottle in mason jars and call it "moonshine" or as white whiskey/rye and use a more traditional bottle and marketing strategy. Or somewhere in between. "Moonshine" doesnt really have the appeal it does up here in canada as much as it does down there. That being said, I also beleive my flavoured liquors will FAR outsell my straight up white whiskey and the quality will be in that these will taste good to my target market.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I will say Woodshed does great things and makes a fine product, The work is getting someone to actually try that product. If someone has tried 15 different "Moonshines" that were all bad it is unlikely you will get them to try the 16th no matter how you market it or the story behind it or how good you think it is. Of course that's just my opinion you have to figure out what your market wants.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I just picked up a quart of moonshine with the Harley Davidson brand on it, and it was horrible. But there are also some good shine products out there as well. Maybe not brilliant, but my wife and I go through some Junior Johnson jars regularly.
Keep in mind that "flavored" covers a lot of ground. There are a million delicious flavor combinations that no one has marketed yet. I have no plans to go commercial, but I'm still working on a flavored recipe that will be unique and delicious. People regularly build gin baskets and pursue traditional gin recipes with their own twists, or pursue traditional absinthe, but not a lot of people generate their own ideas.
Come up with something incredibly tasty and unique, get it onto people's tongues, and they'll hunt you down with wallets in hand.
Part of the recent shine boom in the US is that a lot of chefs are getting into it -- I can't wait to see what'll be on the market in 5 years.
Keep in mind that "flavored" covers a lot of ground. There are a million delicious flavor combinations that no one has marketed yet. I have no plans to go commercial, but I'm still working on a flavored recipe that will be unique and delicious. People regularly build gin baskets and pursue traditional gin recipes with their own twists, or pursue traditional absinthe, but not a lot of people generate their own ideas.
Come up with something incredibly tasty and unique, get it onto people's tongues, and they'll hunt you down with wallets in hand.
Part of the recent shine boom in the US is that a lot of chefs are getting into it -- I can't wait to see what'll be on the market in 5 years.
Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I say make a nice good quality whisky and while its aging sell a little white.
Not sure most Canadians are into moonshine really... but that being said only available here is Gorgia Moon and its not so good. I think a nice 3 or 4 grain whisky whiskey with tight cuts be nice end product. Corn, Wheat, Barely and Rye... Could be all organic and from the prairies. Then ad for 4 years in smaller barrels to make it seam older than it is. Bet would be a nice product. Might be able to blend a nice canadian whisky too you could mix with oaked neutral thats 4 years old also and maybe finish in a cherry cask for a lighter whiskey more Canadian like.. I figure a 6 month rest after aging and mixing be nice.
The Neutral you make if a nice all grain could be sold on its own now. All grain gives a nice mouth feel.
You coudl make a potato vodka also and sell right away...
Then use the vodka and develop a gin you could sell while the Whiskey is aging.
B
Not sure most Canadians are into moonshine really... but that being said only available here is Gorgia Moon and its not so good. I think a nice 3 or 4 grain whisky whiskey with tight cuts be nice end product. Corn, Wheat, Barely and Rye... Could be all organic and from the prairies. Then ad for 4 years in smaller barrels to make it seam older than it is. Bet would be a nice product. Might be able to blend a nice canadian whisky too you could mix with oaked neutral thats 4 years old also and maybe finish in a cherry cask for a lighter whiskey more Canadian like.. I figure a 6 month rest after aging and mixing be nice.
The Neutral you make if a nice all grain could be sold on its own now. All grain gives a nice mouth feel.
You coudl make a potato vodka also and sell right away...
Then use the vodka and develop a gin you could sell while the Whiskey is aging.
B
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Everyone is always raving about peach shine, so I grabbed a jar of Georgia Moon Peach, and it turns out that they use artificial flavoring.bitter wrote:Not sure most Canadians are into moonshine really... but that being said only available here is Gorgia Moon and its not so good.
It tasted more like gummy candy than anything else. Totally not was I was looking for. I was about to give in and pick up their plain corn shine when I spotted the Junior Johnson peach stuff, which turns out to be really good. So far we've had their blackberry, strawberry, blueberry and peach, the peach is the winner IMHO.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
JJ's stuff is cough syrup. Full of crap covered in sweet. Has nothing to do with real shine.
If that is your standard you should aim higher. Any liquor store that passes it off as top shelf shine knows nothing about the booze business. They are only concerned about how stupid or already buzzed the 80% of their clients are.
If you go into this for any other reasons than the passion to pour your soul into every bottle with a belief that others will feel the same about your spirits you are just fuckin a bunch of people for a quick buck.
If that is your standard you should aim higher. Any liquor store that passes it off as top shelf shine knows nothing about the booze business. They are only concerned about how stupid or already buzzed the 80% of their clients are.
If you go into this for any other reasons than the passion to pour your soul into every bottle with a belief that others will feel the same about your spirits you are just fuckin a bunch of people for a quick buck.
Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
but how do you really feel about it?woodshed wrote:JJ's stuff is cough syrup. Full of crap covered in sweet. Has nothing to do with real shine.
If that is your standard you should aim higher. Any liquor store that passes it off as top shelf shine knows nothing about the booze business. They are only concerned about how stupid or already buzzed the 80% of their clients are.
If you go into this for any other reasons than the passion to pour your soul into every bottle with a belief that others will feel the same about your spirits you are just fuckin a bunch of people for a quick buck.
I finally quit drinking for good.
now i drink for evil.
now i drink for evil.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I'm not holding it up as any high standard, it's just very drinkable. No complexity of any kind.
Sometimes I want junk food.
Sometimes I want junk food.
Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I really appreciate you shed. I wish more people in this world had your pride in craftsmanship in more fields.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Here is my deal, I read the reviews, I pay way to much for the product and then most of the time I'm really disappointed. I'm much more likely at this point to buy a bottle of gin for 25 bucks then a bottle of whisky without having a shot of it first.
If you can really make a good white whisky that's great but I'm probably not going to buy it untill I know what it tastes like because there are so many bad ones out there.
If you can really make a good white whisky that's great but I'm probably not going to buy it untill I know what it tastes like because there are so many bad ones out there.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I'm in your neck of the woods... I think... PM me and lets chat....gg
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
A short while back after finishing some of Rads All Bran I started getting requests from my group for a taste. I figured this would be a good opportunity to stop the harassment as it was pretty bad, white. Just for fun I put a chunk of charred oak in each bottle, telling everyone it would help mellow the flavor over time.
I don't get any requests anymore however everyone thought the chunk of oak was pretty kewl.
A couple years ago Phillips Brewing in Victoria came out with "Hop Drop" I think it's 20% with crazy hop bitterness and about $6 for a 2 oz bottle. It's popular and often not available. I often think that it's those low dollar items that get a lot of attention. I'd buy a 2oz bottle of apple pie moonshine for $6 without much consideration.
I don't get any requests anymore however everyone thought the chunk of oak was pretty kewl.
A couple years ago Phillips Brewing in Victoria came out with "Hop Drop" I think it's 20% with crazy hop bitterness and about $6 for a 2 oz bottle. It's popular and often not available. I often think that it's those low dollar items that get a lot of attention. I'd buy a 2oz bottle of apple pie moonshine for $6 without much consideration.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I would start running recipes, experiment, age, flavor etc asap. Then run tastings and see what the mob thinks.... Then start limited sales and see what moves and what doesn't.
Then run a discounted "shots" night or weekend and swap your likker with the well drinks. See what keeps them talking and coming back and then adjust. Run specials featuring your drinks even if it's not on sale. having the bartenders or servers mention it can improve sales.
The fist step is to have a product, the next is to get people talking about it. Social media is huge and Facebook is a great way to get the word out.
After the regulars get some good clean booze and get frisky you lettum know that was your baby if you just swapped out the bottles. The best advertisement is in the moment and 1st hand word of mouth.
Example: if you have someone at a store determined to buy a certain product no matter what store they go to.... what is better than them asking " what's good / which brand?" than a customer sitting in the moment piping up about how DAMN fine your product is after mentioning the special/s.
DISCLAIMER: I gladly barter and accept free booze as a fee for my marketing services. I would be happy to review and rate the products as well and get it out on social media as a pro-bono bonus for the company.
Then run a discounted "shots" night or weekend and swap your likker with the well drinks. See what keeps them talking and coming back and then adjust. Run specials featuring your drinks even if it's not on sale. having the bartenders or servers mention it can improve sales.
The fist step is to have a product, the next is to get people talking about it. Social media is huge and Facebook is a great way to get the word out.
After the regulars get some good clean booze and get frisky you lettum know that was your baby if you just swapped out the bottles. The best advertisement is in the moment and 1st hand word of mouth.
Example: if you have someone at a store determined to buy a certain product no matter what store they go to.... what is better than them asking " what's good / which brand?" than a customer sitting in the moment piping up about how DAMN fine your product is after mentioning the special/s.
DISCLAIMER: I gladly barter and accept free booze as a fee for my marketing services. I would be happy to review and rate the products as well and get it out on social media as a pro-bono bonus for the company.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Yea I agree with all of that, I'm sure I'll be spending many weekend evenings doing free sample/tasting nights are various bars. Pretty common thing around here to have a few good looking promo girls hand out free shots at bars, clubs and liquor stores.Copper Thumper wrote:I would start running recipes, experiment, age, flavor etc asap. Then run tastings and see what the mob thinks.... Then start limited sales and see what moves and what doesn't.
Then run a discounted "shots" night or weekend and swap your likker with the well drinks. See what keeps them talking and coming back and then adjust. Run specials featuring your drinks even if it's not on sale. having the bartenders or servers mention it can improve sales.
The fist step is to have a product, the next is to get people talking about it. Social media is huge and Facebook is a great way to get the word out.
After the regulars get some good clean booze and get frisky you lettum know that was your baby if you just swapped out the bottles. The best advertisement is in the moment and 1st hand word of mouth.
Example: if you have someone at a store determined to buy a certain product no matter what store they go to.... what is better than them asking " what's good / which brand?" than a customer sitting in the moment piping up about how DAMN fine your product is after mentioning the special/s.
DISCLAIMER: I gladly barter and accept free booze as a fee for my marketing services. I would be happy to review and rate the products as well and get it out on social media as a pro-bono bonus for the company.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
What do you look for in a good white whiskey?rubber duck wrote:Here is my deal, I read the reviews, I pay way to much for the product and then most of the time I'm really disappointed. I'm much more likely at this point to buy a bottle of gin for 25 bucks then a bottle of whisky without having a shot of it first.
If you can really make a good white whisky that's great but I'm probably not going to buy it untill I know what it tastes like because there are so many bad ones out there.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
No burn...interesting flavor and cheap.
What more could a man ask for?
What more could a man ask for?
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Well to be honest white wisky really isn't all that good to begin with, if it was no one would bother to put it into expensive oak barrels.Shovelhead89 wrote:What do you look for in a good white whiskey?rubber duck wrote:Here is my deal, I read the reviews, I pay way to much for the product and then most of the time I'm really disappointed. I'm much more likely at this point to buy a bottle of gin for 25 bucks then a bottle of whisky without having a shot of it first.
If you can really make a good white whisky that's great but I'm probably not going to buy it untill I know what it tastes like because there are so many bad ones out there.
I haven't had a comercial white wisky that was worth buying other then one that had been sitting in an elvis decanter for 30 years. What I look for from a moonshine is a really perfect middle hearts cut. Most of the comercial stuff just bottles their unaged and it's not good. I want the middle of a hearts run off of a pot still not a plate still, and I'll pay a lot for it, but it not a mass market thing... I don't think you can survive on that.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
Shovelhead, are you on Vancouver Island?
If so please contact me via private message.
If so please contact me via private message.
The still is not a liar. Mash and ferment quality is 99.9% of your performance.
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Re: White whiskey/Moonshine marketing
I'm in the fraser valley.