Starting a (nano) distillery

Place for craft/micro distillers in all stages of build to show and share.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

Whelp, we've taken the leap. In the final part of the first part of hoops through which to jump.

We've got location, most the funding, corporation formed, and in discussions with the local government (county and state, we're rather rural).

Getting ready for the TTB paperwork, have it filled out, but thinking of the online option.

What are the pitfalls?

Oh, our state has 5 producing micro distilleries, two others in startup - but with tasting rooms/cocktail bars.
We were thinking of just producing at first, tasting room as finances allow.

FortBuilder

Any advice is totally appreciated and requested.
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

One further bit of info, we want to use pot stills (as that's what I know).

Surfing the internet shows some legit small distilleries using setups that look like mine, and I have yet to find a regulation that says I can't build my own still (metalworking is a more-than-hobby of mine). Is that allowed? Can I build my own still? Labyrinthine federal regs don't seem to speak on that.

FortBuilder
User avatar
der wo
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3817
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by der wo »

How much smaller is a nano distillery than a micro distillery? And pico distilleries?

I remember a legal US distillery with a very unique self made still. He posted here not long ago. Perhaps someone else remembers the thread, then you could pm him.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

der wo wrote:How much smaller is a nano distillery than a micro distillery? And pico distilleries?

I remember a legal US distillery with a very unique self made still. He posted here not long ago. Perhaps someone else remembers the thread, then you could pm him.
There really isn't a class designation, as I read the federal regs. But I'm following more the nanobrewery model (a lot of bootstrapping instead of investing) with the plan that as we grow we'll get nicer and nicer stuff. :-D
User avatar
Single Malt Yinzer
Trainee
Posts: 973
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

Go here: http://adiforums.com/index.php?/discover/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
fortbuilder825 wrote:I have yet to find a regulation that says I can't build my own still (metalworking is a more-than-hobby of mine). Is that allowed? Can I build my own still? Labyrinthine federal regs don't seem to speak on that. FortBuilder
Yes you can. You will need to put a serial number on the boiler and column. Some people use an etcher so it can't rub off. It can be anything so you can just make up something. You will need it for your TTB app. Make sure you understand the regs concerning raw materials, production recording, and proofing. Those are the big get you in trouble items. The rest is easier to deal with. COLA's (label approvals) can be a pain if you're not doing something simple. There's tons to know but ADI is a little more appropriate forum for that. Go there and start looking around.
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:Go here: http://adiforums.com/index.php?/discover/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
fortbuilder825 wrote:I have yet to find a regulation that says I can't build my own still (metalworking is a more-than-hobby of mine). Is that allowed? Can I build my own still? Labyrinthine federal regs don't seem to speak on that. FortBuilder
Yes you can. You will need to put a serial number on the boiler and column. Some people use an etcher so it can't rub off. It can be anything so you can just make up something. You will need it for your TTB app. Make sure you understand the regs concerning raw materials, production recording, and proofing. Those are the big get you in trouble items. The rest is easier to deal with. COLA's (label approvals) can be a pain if you're not doing something simple. There's tons to know but ADI is a little more appropriate forum for that. Go there and start looking around.
Thanks so much!
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by Bushman »

Nano breweries are thought to be smaller than microbreweries and run by a single person. However the amount of barrels produced is not defined. New Hampshire however has taken it a step further.
It is commonly thought that a nanobrewery is defined as a brewery that produces no more than 3 barrels of beer in one batch. A brand new New Hampshire law has added more structure to what a nanobrewery is though, defining them as breweries that produce less than 2,000 barrels annually
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by bluefish_dist »

I was where you are about 2.5 years ago. Now we are coming up on our one year being open. I wish you luck.

I have learned a few things and I would say you might want to reconsider the tasting room second. Sales in distribution are hard and cost $$. You also make a lot less margin.

I would also guess your still is too small. After running for a year, I have a much better feel on how much you have to make to cover costs. It's more than we projected and the easiest way to make more is to do larger batches. The incremental cost is low on your labor which will be the bottleneck. But to answer your question, yes you can make your still depending on your municipality.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by The Baker »

" You will need to put a serial number on the boiler and column."

Years ago farmer relations made up a tractor using the transmission from a tank, and I think a Caterpillar engine.
They had to quote a serial number so used their initials and birthdate (twins).
Written on the tractor frame with a welder...

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

bluefish_dist wrote:I was where you are about 2.5 years ago. Now we are coming up on our one year being open. I wish you luck.

I have learned a few things and I would say you might want to reconsider the tasting room second. Sales in distribution are hard and cost $$. You also make a lot less margin.

I would also guess your still is too small. After running for a year, I have a much better feel on how much you have to make to cover costs. It's more than we projected and the easiest way to make more is to do larger batches. The incremental cost is low on your labor which will be the bottleneck. But to answer your question, yes you can make your still depending on your municipality.
Excellent advice. May I PM you with some questions?
seamusm53
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:35 am

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by seamusm53 »

I concur with Bluefish. Rethink the tasting room. For financial success and growth advertising and marketing is as important (if not more) than the product itself. The average Joe/Jill can't tell the sublety of differences between brands of whiskey. But word of mouth and customers being able to brag about having their own neighborhood distillery will make or break your endeavor. Good luck. I think every soul on this board harbors dreams of being able to sell (legally) a bottle of their work. Few have the stones to do it.
jdetechguy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:33 pm

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by jdetechguy »

I am starting too. Great advice


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
raketemensch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2001
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Location: Tralfamadore

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by raketemensch »

bluefish_dist wrote: I would also guess your still is too small. After running for a year, I have a much better feel on how much you have to make to cover costs. It's more than we projected and the easiest way to make more is to do larger batches. The incremental cost is low on your labor which will be the bottleneck. But to answer your question, yes you can make your still depending on your municipality.
How big is/are your boiler(s)? How much are you fermenting at a time that you’re seeing genuine profit?

Obviously it’s at least as important that you’re selling a good amount, but what level of production did you need to have before you felt like it was “enough?”
jdetechguy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:33 pm

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by jdetechguy »

TTB is running around 101 days. We are at 83 days with no contact. The times stated are start to finish, but know knows how accurate they are.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by bluefish_dist »

I currently have a 120 gallon still, with 85 gallon fermenters. I am adding 110 gallon fermenters, but another local distillery runs 300 gallon on both. That would be a lot nicer. If you are going cheap, 300 gal still and ibc tote fermenters will take you a long way.
Not going to post my break even here, but I would say $100 sale price per gallon is a decent price for budgeting. Less if you do three tier, then maybe $60/gallon gross.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

bluefish_dist wrote:I currently have a 120 gallon still, with 85 gallon fermenters. I am adding 110 gallon fermenters, but another local distillery runs 300 gallon on both. That would be a lot nicer. If you are going cheap, 300 gal still and ibc tote fermenters will take you a long way.
Not going to post my break even here, but I would say $100 sale price per gallon is a decent price for budgeting. Less if you do three tier, then maybe $60/gallon gross.
Curious, do you run a single still or a stripping still and a spirit still? If single, do you do strips or just a single run? Also, what is your primary product? No judgements, just curious.
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by bluefish_dist »

I run various configurations. For flavored spirits it's plates for a one and done. For vodka it's strip and finish. I have two stills and can configure both as columns or as pot stills. For columns I can run bubble, sieve, or packed.
Right now we have rum, vodka, moonshine, whiskey, and blue agave.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by LWTCS »

If your state let's you sell cocktails and bottles out of your distillery,,I would definitely try and prioritize that part of your model.
That can also help relieve the pressure of waiting on your barrel aging program to mature.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by HDNB »

I think small distilleries are a lot like farming...it's an opportunity to make a small fortune.

Unfortunately you have to start with a large fortune.
The best advice i've heard is to triple check your math and cut your expectations in a half...then maybe half again.

Like most farmers too, best not to give up your day job. :lol:
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

LWTCS wrote:If your state let's you sell cocktails and bottles out of your distillery,,I would definitely try and prioritize that part of your model.
That can also help relieve the pressure of waiting on your barrel aging program to mature.
Sadly my state has utterly draconian laws on that, but I'm working with my State Senator to get them changed.
User avatar
fortbuilder825
Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 am
Location: Mountain West

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by fortbuilder825 »

HDNB wrote:I think small distilleries are a lot like farming...it's an opportunity to make a small fortune.

Unfortunately you have to start with a large fortune.
The best advice i've heard is to triple check your math and cut your expectations in a half...then maybe half again.

Like most farmers too, best not to give up your day job. :lol:
Funny you should say that. I'm still teaching and farming as well. I'd be happy to give up the farming. I'd be ecstatic to give up teaching, but I'm not holding my breath.
jdetechguy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:33 pm

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by jdetechguy »

[quote="LWTCS"]If your state let's you sell cocktails and bottles out of your distillery,,I would definitely try and prioritize that part of your model.
That can also help relieve the pressure of waiting on your barrel aging program to mature.[/quote

They do in Ohio, fortunately. That also allows you to be a destination location with bling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by The Baker »

And maybe the old financial maxim for farmers applies to distillers:

Marry a teacher or (like my son-in-law) a nurse!

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by shadylane »

der wo wrote:How much smaller is a nano distillery than a micro distillery? And pico distilleries?
Can't answer your question, but found a forum for Nano-distilleries :lol:
http://www.nanodistiller.org/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
User avatar
der wo
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3817
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by der wo »

shadylane wrote:
der wo wrote:How much smaller is a nano distillery than a micro distillery? And pico distilleries?
Can't answer your question, but found a forum for Nano-distilleries :lol:
http://www.nanodistiller.org/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Thanks shady, I will ask there. :lol:
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
UrToopid
Novice
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:17 am
Location: Texas Gulf Coast

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by UrToopid »

HDNB wrote:I think small distilleries are a lot like farming...it's an opportunity to make a small fortune.

Unfortunately you have to start with a large fortune.
The best advice i've heard is to triple check your math and cut your expectations in a half...then maybe half again.

Like most farmers too, best not to give up your day job. :lol:
Amen to that brother. I have read that every successful small business owner has one thing going common: they have all tried their hand at starting a business in the past.. and failed to some degree. That experience and the change in their expectations is what allowed them success on subsequent attempt number "X". I know from my own experience that there is truth to this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
UrToopid
Novice
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:17 am
Location: Texas Gulf Coast

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by UrToopid »

Going common = in common .. friggin auto correct..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
glenlyon
Novice
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:11 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by glenlyon »

Having just gone through the development and opening of a micro distillery - allow me to offer a few words of advice...

Evey thing in the distillation business costs $5k - which in English means - even a small distillery will cost a shitload of money to get off the ground. No matter what anyone says - expect at least $500K. Mine cost $650k. Up, ever so slightly up from the cost of a used pick-up truck, I thought I could get away with in my early projections.

A small still sounds very attractive in the planning stages, but is as useless as tits on a bull in the heat of battle. That means, if your not processing at least a 1000 liters of pay dirt a week, you are falling behind.

Making booze at home is dead easy. Making booze for a demanding audience of a quality to bring them back? Really fucking hard.

Get thee to the cleanery! I've spent hours and hours cleaning. Not in the original fantasy at all! Do not under estimate the time you'll need to spend cleaning.

Grains of all kinds is wonderful stuff - but, it quickly becomes a hot sticky mess - please refer to the previous note.

Make sure you know where you are going to get rid of your spent grains. They pile up really fast and they quickly start to stink. The idea of a happy farmer feeding the spent to his pigs is great - but very hard to actually pull off with any consistency. I've found chickens to be better than pigs as efficient spent grain consumers.

Don't bother with partners. You will soon tire of them and they won't be nearly as helpful as they are helping you drink your shine.

Don't borrow money to build your distillery. Only borrow money for working capital and only if you know you have the sales. Otherwise, allow me to repeat. Don't borrow money - or - take money from investors. Unhappiness will ensue.

The paper work to get the licenses for a distillery is tough, but it's easy when compared to the ongoing day to day paperwork. Fall behind on that and you're dead.

All that being said, I am glad I took the risk and I expect in time I'll probably do alright.
Renaissance Man
Licensed Craft Distiller
User avatar
MoonBreath
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2238
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Horseshoe Bend, Ky.

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by MoonBreath »

Then theres some folks who jump in just to say they're pro.
Not ever having a product worthy of a following, not minding the money pit...
No news is bad news in the industry, as news equals progress and growth..No news, prolly no growth.
Bad news travels fast, good news travels faster.
Very hard, dedicated work..Not for the tender.
*Spend it all, Use it up, Wear it out*
Beware of sheet-sniffers and dime-droppers!
glenlyon
Novice
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:11 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Starting a (nano) distillery

Post by glenlyon »

The people I've met and dealt with in the alcohol/distillation business are serious players. I haven't met anyone who was doing this kind of work and spending their savings just so they could call themselves professional.

Very, very, very few people will ever start a distillery - even with thousands of people using this forum, only a handful, a tiny, tiny percentage of people are actually following this path. Why did I jump in? Well, I have close to 40 years experience working in and around the booze biz, I'm a skilled entrepreneur and I have the right temperament to deal with government bureaucracy. So it was a very intuitive transition.

Its a tough business, I'll be the first to admit, but all interesting businesses are tough. So if you are inclined to take a run at this biz, you probably will really enjoy the experience.
Renaissance Man
Licensed Craft Distiller
Post Reply