ultrasonic aging experiment

Any hardware used in the mashing /fermenting or aging of product

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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby SaltyStaves » Thu May 18, 2017 9:25 pm

DBCFlash wrote:To be fair, I will consider running a session with an oak block from start to finish, but I am really skeptical about it's value. I am going to wait until I have installed a cooling fan though, since I believe it will draw a lot more energy and probably create more heat in the controller.


When you do run the test, it may also be a good idea to run an identical control test with passive oaking and maybe also a test with the same distillate pretreated with US and then oaked. Then come back to all three of them several months down the line. This should give you an idea if there is any merit in one treatment over the other.

The thing with disruptive processes like US, is that its similar to the distillation process and it breaks things at the molecular level. With time/aging/ripening in the jar, things will settle/marry and change and that can be good or bad. It really depends on your end goal and how quickly you intend to consume it, but if my goal was to pretreat with US and then long term age, I'd want to be sure that I wasn't cleaning up something that could lead to drinkable New Make now, at the cost of boring brown spirit months/years later.
But half the fun is finding out.

I'm watching with interest. :thumbup:
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby skow69 » Fri May 19, 2017 2:19 am

DBCFlash wrote: The second part was the application of "actinic light" with the charred wood chips. Actinic light, as I understand it are specific blue end wavelengths that are used for photosynthesis. They appear to be using some pretty powerful actinic lights to get the reaction from the oak.


Actually plants use mainly red wavelengths for photosynthesis. They appear to be green because they reflect that and absorb the red. If anything, blues would probably inhibit photosynthesis. Also IIRC ultraviolet leds often come with warnings to avoid exposure, like they are not beneficial to human health.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby SaltyStaves » Fri May 19, 2017 2:31 am

skow69 wrote:Actually plants use mainly red wavelengths for photosynthesis. They appear to be green because they reflect that and absorb the red. If anything, blues would probably inhibit photosynthesis. Also IIRC ultraviolet leds often come with warnings to avoid exposure, like they are not beneficial to human health.


You won't find many marine aquariums with red lights. Coral need to photosynthesize and they have more in common with a submerged piece of wood than a leaf on a tree.
This is fairly off topic, so I'll leave it at that.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby skow69 » Mon May 22, 2017 2:51 am

Since we don't have any red oceans, fish tanks are probably more attractive in green. But nobody is photosynthesizing green light.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby DBCFlash » Mon May 22, 2017 3:21 am

skow69 wrote:
DBCFlash wrote: The second part was the application of "actinic light" with the charred wood chips. Actinic light, as I understand it are specific blue end wavelengths that are used for photosynthesis. They appear to be using some pretty powerful actinic lights to get the reaction from the oak.


Actually plants use mainly red wavelengths for photosynthesis. They appear to be green because they reflect that and absorb the red. If anything, blues would probably inhibit photosynthesis. Also IIRC ultraviolet leds often come with warnings to avoid exposure, like they are not beneficial to human health.

Investigate actinism.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby contrahead » Sat May 27, 2017 9:32 pm

I've been offline for a week; because of router problems, family medical appointments and attendance to the needs of visiting guest. Finally fixed the Internet connection problem after crawling around on my hands an knees in search for cat-V cable or DSL phone line issues.

I wish to address a few statements or ideas from “DBCFlash”. (where he said)

-“I would compare the change to be like a pot of chili......1st day you can find or taste each individual ingredient …...but next day the flavors have merged”....
-“I will continue to set aside a dram of untreated each time to make comparisons”
-“the presence of the oak block might interfere with the wave propagation. It's porous nature would likely just absorb the energy”
-“the microscopic cloud of bubbles immediately stopped practically the moment the wood was introduced”

Firstly, the analogy between aging spirits and the seasonings melding in chili - is a very good one.
Secondly, I wonder how many people here recognize how small a dram really is? I've only seen the word used probably on the side of boxes of shotgun shells where “dram equivalent” is supposed to indicate how much recoil is to be expected. (When black powder was the primary propellant in shotguns it was measured in drams ( 1⁄256 pound or  1⁄16 ounce )). Today's US teaspoon is equivalent to exactly  1⁄6 US fluid ounces or  1 1⁄3 US fluid drams. A “shot” is legally defined in the U.S. as having one fluid ounce in volume. The 1.5 oz “jigger” was adopted by bartenders because the “official shot” made for a stingy drink. It would take 8 drams to fill a legal shot glass or 12 drams to fill a normal jigger.

Finally, wood is very porous and probably does act like a big sponge that absorbs energy, but; perhaps you are not using enough energy. After watching several videos on ultrasonic cleaning I noticed that several setups used multiple transducers and multiple frequencies to clean items. Cavitation alone without wood chips probably benefits new-make spirit. Upping the amplification of the acoustic energy delivered seems necessary to overcome the loss absorbed by added wood.

I am hesitant to speculate how far or how fast the spirit soaks into dry wood chips, and then what might be happening at the molecular level if vapor cavities begin to form on the surface or below the surface of that wood. Also: the bubbles from boiling and the “bubbles” from cavitation are very different. During a boil, gas in solution within the liquid is released and since it is lighter than the liquid – it will rise to the surface. Bubbles caused by cavitation however are voids or vacuums caused by the liquid being pulled. These type of bubbles contain no gas or vapor. While these short -lived bubbles might not be compelled to rise they can implode vigorously instead – creating those intense little shock waves that are substantial enough to eat metal away from propellers, turbine rotors and pumps.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby DBCFlash » Sun May 28, 2017 4:06 am

In this case, a "dram" represents an unmeasured, small quantity of spirits, maybe half a shot or so. Enough to have a decent taste or three.

My UAD is no longer functional. I built a nice case for it, wired in a digital timer and a cooling fan and once it was all back together, it didn't work. I've been trouble-shooting it and it looks like my transistors are blown. I'll probably order a new board, but I also might try just replacing the transistors. I knew this device was a delicate little flower, but this is just stupid.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby DBCFlash » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:42 pm

Talked to a friend who is working with some electrical engineering grad students and I might be getting some help replacing my ultrasonic driver with something more robust.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby contrahead » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:45 pm

An old foreman used the expression “I'm busier than a cat covering up shit”. It kind of fits my situation at the moment.

The fermentation bucket works almost every day of the year, the still every couple of weeks. But for the time being and until the weather changes, experimentation will have to take a back seat to water-sports, outdoor construction projects and travel.
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Re: ultrasonic aging experiment

Postby contrahead » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:33 pm

Thought I'd drop a newfound link in this thread, to an informative blog about ultrasonic cleaning. The blog is not organized like a book but can be searched by category or keyword. There are short multiple or weekly installments for each month in the archives. A few examples follow.

http://techblog.ctgclean.com/2012/01/ul ... what-is-q/

http://techblog.ctgclean.com/2012/01/ul ... -hardware/

http://techblog.ctgclean.com/2011/11/ul ... implosion/

http://ctgclean.wpengine.com/wp-content ... ng-LD1.wmv
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