shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
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- Swill Maker
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shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
So I built this ginormous pot out of a 55 gallon drum, the 2 bungs are on the bottom for draining and circulation.
I was wondering how I was going to heat it. I fell upon basically using a dephlegmator as a heat exchanger. This has the benefit of using my currently well overpowered boiler to support heating this much larger vessel. It would also be a benefit to never have the mash or beer ever touching an electric heating element.
I have a design (and scrap) for a 3" x 20" long shell with 31 1/4"id hardline tubes running through it and a baffle every 2" , my 6" unit knocks down 5000+watts it seems like this one with the larger tube surface area should transfer more than twice that.
I will use a 20gpm household hot water recirculation pump on the shell side, and my trusty 7.5gpm chugger center inlet on the tube/wort side.
The grain will be suspended in a stainless basket and will not be near the wort pump pickup (2" npt bung) location. No grain larger than 2mm should be able to easily leave the basket. After going through the heat exchanger the now hot wort would continue up the 3/4" bung in the bottom of the drum to a 1/2" pipe rising up through the wort and above the grain basket where it leaves the pipe over the top of the basket.
this is what the bottom of my tanks look like (I have 2) the 2" bung has a 90 degree on it acting as a sump and the 3/4" will receive the wort distribution wand (making up names)
http://discussions.probrewer.com/attach ... 1367366720
I'm putting the heat exchanger together with 3" triclamps so cleaning between batches shouldn't be a problem.
Does anyone see a reason this would be a waste of time?
I was wondering how I was going to heat it. I fell upon basically using a dephlegmator as a heat exchanger. This has the benefit of using my currently well overpowered boiler to support heating this much larger vessel. It would also be a benefit to never have the mash or beer ever touching an electric heating element.
I have a design (and scrap) for a 3" x 20" long shell with 31 1/4"id hardline tubes running through it and a baffle every 2" , my 6" unit knocks down 5000+watts it seems like this one with the larger tube surface area should transfer more than twice that.
I will use a 20gpm household hot water recirculation pump on the shell side, and my trusty 7.5gpm chugger center inlet on the tube/wort side.
The grain will be suspended in a stainless basket and will not be near the wort pump pickup (2" npt bung) location. No grain larger than 2mm should be able to easily leave the basket. After going through the heat exchanger the now hot wort would continue up the 3/4" bung in the bottom of the drum to a 1/2" pipe rising up through the wort and above the grain basket where it leaves the pipe over the top of the basket.
this is what the bottom of my tanks look like (I have 2) the 2" bung has a 90 degree on it acting as a sump and the 3/4" will receive the wort distribution wand (making up names)
http://discussions.probrewer.com/attach ... 1367366720
I'm putting the heat exchanger together with 3" triclamps so cleaning between batches shouldn't be a problem.
Does anyone see a reason this would be a waste of time?
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- 20141113_150328.jpg (9.07 KiB) Viewed 4885 times
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
This will also allow me to ditch the electronic controls for a relay. Set the temp and as long as the temp is lower than the set temp (i.e. the pump is on) the elements will power away. After temp spikes to the set temp (i.e. the pump is turned off) the elements turn off as well.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
- shadylane
- Master of Distillation
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I'm trying to wrap my head around what your trying to do.
But my hat isn't quite big enough to fit 55 gallon SS barrels.
I'll assume your going to use steam heat from the comment
"my currently well overpowered boiler"
A steam heated bain marie or direct steam injection would work also.
But my hat isn't quite big enough to fit 55 gallon SS barrels.
I'll assume your going to use steam heat from the comment
"my currently well overpowered boiler"
A steam heated bain marie or direct steam injection would work also.
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- Swill Maker
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I'm actually doing a liquid to liquid heat exchange but rest assured if that's not enough I will be s withing to steam, not direct steam injection but steam in the outer shell of the exchanger. My Boiler is 40 gallons and 11 kw on the elements
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Master of Distillation
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
My previous rig for beer used something very similar in an external heat exchanger HERMS type system. The wort from the grain was pumped thru a copper coil immersed in temp controlled smaller pot of water. It worked well and I was almost able to reach a degree per minute temp rise. Your heat exchanger should be quite a bit more efficient.
New Distiller's Reading http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Novice Guide to Cuts http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 40&start=0
Novice spoon feed http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Novice Guide to Cuts http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 40&start=0
Novice spoon feed http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
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- Swill Maker
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
Excellent!! Thats actually where I got the idea, after some researching on probrewer.com this is a type of calandria. This is the endplate design for 2.95" on the shell and .375 for the OD of the tubes.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
So I'm planning to finish my copper heat exchanger build however I wish I had found this before
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Wood-Fu ... 1037565985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Wood-Fu ... 1037565985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
Assembly is next
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 4490
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:00 pm
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
wow, if it doesn't give you the heat exchange you're looking for sure will be a kick ass shotgun condenser.
If water to water doesn't get the job done, look at running steam through the exchanger at some pressure to increase the temp??? Just kicking around ideas.
If water to water doesn't get the job done, look at running steam through the exchanger at some pressure to increase the temp??? Just kicking around ideas.
New Distiller's Reading http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Novice Guide to Cuts http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 40&start=0
Novice spoon feed http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Novice Guide to Cuts http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 40&start=0
Novice spoon feed http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
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- Swill Maker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I think steam is a good backup plan. Hopefully I won't need it since operating at pressure comes with a few more safety devices.
Test Fitting the boiler circulation pump.
Test Fitting the boiler circulation pump.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
Coming together nicely
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Rumrunner
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
bellybuster wrote:wow, if it doesn't give you the heat exchange you're looking for sure will be a kick ass shotgun condenser.
If water to water doesn't get the job done, look at running steam through the exchanger at some pressure to increase the temp??? Just kicking around ideas.
I'm in the process of swapping out 6 she'll and tube exchangers at a pool. The first thing I thought of when I saw them was, "damn, now that's a still condenser if I ever saw one. All of them are steam to water exchangers. These things are incredibly efficient. The one is 6" diameter, 36" long has 3/8" stainless tubes for steam, and the shell is for the water. Using 3" connections. This "little guy" is powerful enough to keep the 25000gallon swimming pool heated.
Another similar one with 2" connections, same configuration (steam in the tubes, water in the shell) is capable of heating the 2 130gallon hot water tanks at +/- 180f
The steam is 5psi saturated steam, gravity condensate.
The ops diy exchanger will most definately be adequate for what he's trying to do.
I'd be interested in a build cost on this.
Hangover? I don't get no stinking hangover!
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- Swill Maker
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
Currently this is my cost
20" 3" copper dwv $55
12" x 8" 1/8" copper plate $20
60 feet of 1/4" hardline $60
machining for plates $135
4 ferrules $16
safety silv 56 $32
6" 3" DWV copper for the ends $16
~$334
Having the option I would likely have bought one of these Brazeteks stainless units for the pool (300000btu), but I was already invested in this unit, and I got a couple of the parts from my scrap pile. If I was building another one though I wouldn't do it this way without really good reason
http://www.brazetek.com/shell-tube-heat-exchangers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
20" 3" copper dwv $55
12" x 8" 1/8" copper plate $20
60 feet of 1/4" hardline $60
machining for plates $135
4 ferrules $16
safety silv 56 $32
6" 3" DWV copper for the ends $16
~$334
Having the option I would likely have bought one of these Brazeteks stainless units for the pool (300000btu), but I was already invested in this unit, and I got a couple of the parts from my scrap pile. If I was building another one though I wouldn't do it this way without really good reason
http://www.brazetek.com/shell-tube-heat-exchangers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
-
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I have moved this project over from copper to stainless with larger tubes. It has required me to learn stainless welding, back purging etc. but its worth it.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
- Yummyrum
- Global moderator
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
When you had so much already invested in the copper one , why Did you switch to Staino Ben ?
I would have thought that the Copper would allow better heat transfer too .
BTW , nice job
I would have thought that the Copper would allow better heat transfer too .
BTW , nice job
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
how steep of a learning curve to weld stainless. Did you have prior experience with tig?Ben Stillin wrote:I have moved this project over from copper to stainless with larger tubes. It has required me to learn stainless welding, back purging etc. but its worth it.
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- Swill Maker
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I switched off because I was having a hard time with the side connections and the weight of the copper was pulling the whole tank assembly over. It was very very heavy. I was already trying to learn welding and found that the cost of the components to remake the exchanger in a larger 1/2" tube size was relatively inexpensive and would provide me with a decent welding project.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
I only soldered before, I have actually never welded anything but stainless.JoeyZR1 wrote:how steep of a learning curve to weld stainless. Did you have prior experience with tig?Ben Stillin wrote:I have moved this project over from copper to stainless with larger tubes. It has required me to learn stainless welding, back purging etc. but its worth it.
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Its really not that hard. There are things you need to do and know though.
1. Its a waste of gas. Don't even try to save it. If the manual says 15cfm it means it and even more so because you will be using a gas lens
2. You need a gas lens, the bigger the better. I use a 1.125" diameter one from CK and its pyrex so I can see what I'm doing (they are fragile and expensive)
3. you will need a double regulator or a T and 2 single regulators for purging gas. If it needs a full fusion weld or is thin (most I use is) it needs purge gas on the back side. Get lots of 1/4" cheap vinyl hoses and hose barb"T's" like a set of tinker toys.
4. clean everything. Grind the weld area, clean it with acetone, scotch bright your filler rod if using one, fresh tungsten grind, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
5. Stainless warps really easy, you can hear it as you are welding it **TINK** **TONK** **TANK!!!**.
5a. Tack everything in many places. Don't go crazy but remember whatever you weld will pull toward the weld. Tack part in one spot and the opposite spot on the other side will lift up. Hammer it back down and put a tack there too and continue like that.
5b. control your heat as you are welding. Stainless doesn't transfer heat superfast like copper or aluminum. As you are welding you will see a slightly red halo develop ahead of the puddle, stay ahead of that halo no matter what. If it get ahead of you, STOP welding, let it cool and start again or start somewhere else. I set my welder to about 10% more power than I need to weld I jam on the control peddle to start my puddle and back off peddle fast and get the puddle moving quick. You can see I haven't gotten that down quite yet.
5c. If you have something that's going to be a close fit, assemble it before welding if at all possible.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
Seems to be a pretty good bit of learning on my end. Your advice will be very useful. Thanks for taking the time to explain your process.
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- Swill Maker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
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Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
It works, though not as well as expected and while it was not properly insulated I feared my ultimate goal of 205F on the mash side was unachievable. I could get it to about 190 and it would go no further no matter what speed I ran the exchange. Perhaps I could have added more baffles or used corrugated 304 tubing for extra surface area but it will not be abandoned. I will be trying to use it in combination with direct steam injection.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm
- Location: The Great State of Texas
Re: shell and tube heat exchanger as a mash boiler
So I have resurrected this thread because I have resurrected this device. It now preheats my stripping barrel.
I have 2 loops
1. the beer to be stripped passes through the interior of my stainless heat exchanger using a chugger 7 gpm pump and then back into the stripping barrel
2. the really hot water passes through the exterior shell using a hot water recirculating pump and drains back into my boiler all connected with CSST (solar hot water piping).
The boiler is not "closed" so to speak, that would not be smart. Its got a wand going from the top of the boiler into the bottom of the stripping tank acting as a blow off valve (I have another at 5psi) providing enough back pressure for the water in the boiler to get to about 222-223, gauge reads 2-3 psi.
I keep the heating elements just under what it takes to heat up that top CSST pipe, then I know its all on exchange and until the very end I keep it that way. I'm not adding any extra liquid to the beer being stripped. Then in the last 20% or so it starts to bubble through anyway since the liquid in the strip barrel is lower so I jack up the elements and let it blow through to get the last little bit.
Why would I do this.
First I'm a complicated man, second I like the steam injection capacity to not scorch, but I dislike the potential watering down and potential of overflow. This is the best of all worlds even if it has more moving parts. I get an incredibly even heat up as well.
I have 2 loops
1. the beer to be stripped passes through the interior of my stainless heat exchanger using a chugger 7 gpm pump and then back into the stripping barrel
2. the really hot water passes through the exterior shell using a hot water recirculating pump and drains back into my boiler all connected with CSST (solar hot water piping).
The boiler is not "closed" so to speak, that would not be smart. Its got a wand going from the top of the boiler into the bottom of the stripping tank acting as a blow off valve (I have another at 5psi) providing enough back pressure for the water in the boiler to get to about 222-223, gauge reads 2-3 psi.
I keep the heating elements just under what it takes to heat up that top CSST pipe, then I know its all on exchange and until the very end I keep it that way. I'm not adding any extra liquid to the beer being stripped. Then in the last 20% or so it starts to bubble through anyway since the liquid in the strip barrel is lower so I jack up the elements and let it blow through to get the last little bit.
Why would I do this.
First I'm a complicated man, second I like the steam injection capacity to not scorch, but I dislike the potential watering down and potential of overflow. This is the best of all worlds even if it has more moving parts. I get an incredibly even heat up as well.
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- exchanger.jpg (37.03 KiB) Viewed 2172 times
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle