Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Any hardware used for mashing, fermenting or aging.

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StillerBoy
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

WIski.. I squeeze the paint bag until it is pretty well dry.. then let the wash settle for a day or so.. then rack the wash off leaving about 2" of wash above the sludge/mud... then pour the sludge/mud into the fabric, which has been place on top of another fermenter/bucket held in place with a few blinder clips..

it's best if you can have a piece of fabric that is longer than square.. my first piece was a 4' x 4' and that worked ok, but as the mud settles the seepage slow down, making it hard to move the fabric.. my other piece I cut it to be 3' x 5' and that worked out much better.. I was able to roll it across as the seepage slow down, exposing the sludge to new fabric.. I am planing on getting a piece something like 3' x 10' and hopefully that will speed up the process to maybe like 10 to 15 minutes overall..

This geotextile fabric is quite the thing.. you see daylight through it, yet the sludge/mud will not go through.. one side is full of mud, the other side is clean of mud.. and so easy to clean, I just used a hose attached to the launder tap and place the fabric in the tub, and just washes the mud off, rinse it a few time, then hang to dry..

Hope this helps.. have not tried it on corn yet, but having done corn before, it should work ok for corn.. the sludge/mud from the rye bread I think is much more sludgy than corn is in my view.. will be trying it with rice in the near future, as rice is another grain that has a lot of sludge also..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by WIski »

Thanks stillerBoy, I am going to get some of this stuff as I end up tossing about 6 gallons of sludge every ferment. It kills me knowing there's a ton of good stuff going to waste. I couldn't quite wrap my head around how you were using this material. Thanks for the explanation. I hope it works as well with corn as it does with the other grains and things. I haven't found anything corn wont plug real fast. Hats off to flatwoods for finding this jewel of a tool.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by nerdybrewer »

WIski wrote:Thanks stillerBoy, I am going to get some of this stuff as I end up tossing about 6 gallons of sludge every ferment. It kills me knowing there's a ton of good stuff going to waste. I couldn't quite wrap my head around how you were using this material. Thanks for the explanation. I hope it works as well with corn as it does with the other grains and things. I haven't found anything corn wont plug real fast. Hats off to flatwoods for finding this jewel of a tool.
I used it with corn meal, it worked but still took a while and some moving around with a big spoon.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

nerdybrewer wrote:I used it with corn meal, it worked but still took a while and some moving around with a big spoon.
That's what I experience the first time I used it.. had a piece about 4' x 4' in size, and once the sludge part settled in, then it was very slow to drain.. and I did try using a large spoon to move the sludge around, but it seem not to help much.. that was when I thought of moving the sludge around to a clean patch of the fabric, and it start to drain faster again..

On my second wash, I use the other piece I had, and cut it to be 3' x 5' in size, and roll one end up.. started with just enough dip in the fabric to hold the amount of sludge, then as the draining slow down to a few drips, I unroll and pulled across enough of the fabric to expose the sludge to a clean patch.. then waited for it slow down, then repeated the move again, thereby reduce the time down to about an hour from a few hours on the first try...

This was done with 5 litre of sludge.. so now I am in the process of getting another piece which I will cut it to be 3' x 8' or 10' long, and that should work out quite well.. the fabric does a very good job of filtering, we just have learn how to work it to our advantage..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Truckinbutch »

StillerBoy wrote:
nerdybrewer wrote:I used it with corn meal, it worked but still took a while and some moving around with a big spoon.
That's what I experience the first time I used it.. had a piece about 4' x 4' in size, and once the sludge part settled in, then it was very slow to drain.. and I did try using a large spoon to move the sludge around, but it seem not to help much.. that was when I thought of moving the sludge around to a clean patch of the fabric, and it start to drain faster again..

On my second wash, I use the other piece I had, and cut it to be 3' x 5' in size, and roll one end up.. started with just enough dip in the fabric to hold the amount of sludge, then as the draining slow down to a few drips, I unroll and pulled across enough of the fabric to expose the sludge to a clean patch.. then waited for it slow down, then repeated the move again, thereby reduce the time down to about an hour from a few hours on the first try...

This was done with 5 litre of sludge.. so now I am in the process of getting another piece which I will cut it to be 3' x 8' or 10' long, and that should work out quite well.. the fabric does a very good job of filtering, we just have learn how to work it to our advantage..

Mars
What SRD and I have done is move that filter cloth as soon as it slows down . Once we have most of it covered in sludge we just quick rinse it in a bucket and go right back to filtering .
We are talking about the same thing on another thread .
We're going to do a spirit run this week on filtered ag and one of dirty run ag without the fine filtering .
Opinions here are mixed on the difference .
The coming week will reveal what our taste preferences are .
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by ga flatwoods »

I have always wanted to find a hand held commercial sewing machine and make myself a bag to use for straining. Maybe velcro or a heavy duty zipper to close the bag.
Glad to see this thread reopened and people still using this and working with it to improve the methodology. It would make a hell of a sparge medium for beer brewing!
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Truckinbutch »

ga flatwoods wrote:I have always wanted to find a hand held commercial sewing machine and make myself a bag to use for straining. Maybe velcro or a heavy duty zipper to close the bag.
Glad to see this thread reopened and people still using this and working with it to improve the methodology. It would make a hell of a sparge medium for beer brewing!
Ga Flatwoods
It's a great filter medium . I think we just have to figure out how to use it to it's fullest potential . We are working on it here .
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by corene1 »

It would be pretty cool if you could figure out a way to make a container that would hold the fabric the have it attach to a second container that you could draw a vacuum on . A shop vac will pull a pretty good vacuum. Just a thought though.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by ga flatwoods »

corene1 wrote:It would be pretty cool if you could figure out a way to make a container that would hold the fabric the have it attach to a second container that you could draw a vacuum on . A shop vac will pull a pretty good vacuum. Just a thought though.
Instead of vacuum I wonder if a wand with closed end but multiple holes scattered down its length could be placed into the bag and the liquid be blown with air to help remove all of it?
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Truckinbutch »

ga flatwoods wrote:
corene1 wrote:It would be pretty cool if you could figure out a way to make a container that would hold the fabric the have it attach to a second container that you could draw a vacuum on . A shop vac will pull a pretty good vacuum. Just a thought though.
Instead of vacuum I wonder if a wand with closed end but multiple holes scattered down its length could be placed into the bag and the liquid be blown with air to help remove all of it?
Ga Flatwoods
I doubt that . Air pressure is going to find it's own easiest path to atmospheric equalibrium .
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Blarney Stoned »

corene1 wrote:It would be pretty cool if you could figure out a way to make a container that would hold the fabric the have it attach to a second container that you could draw a vacuum on . A shop vac will pull a pretty good vacuum. Just a thought though.
Why not ? Done in laboratories all the time.Thinking the large air CFM would be an asset as well.Mash solids up top drawn down on a vacuum with liquids going to a collection vessel beneath .

Büchner funnel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCchner_funnel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Blarney Stoned »

Vacuum Filtration:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chemlab/tech ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

What I have experience so far using the fabric, I have been working on a setup that I think will work out quite well..

The fabric as it muds up, stops filtering, but if move it to expose the mud to a new surface, it starts filtering again.. so the trick would seem to be to keep the mud exposed to some new surface..

With that in mind, I was able to get a piece 3' x 10' to use with the setup I'm working on, which nothing more than a bracket support on one side of the bucket, which would hold the soiled fabric while unrolling it across.. something to that effect..

Have a Odin rye bread finishing on sunday, will see how it works out.. have the parts to build the brackets, just have to find time to work at it.. :)

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

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StillerBoy wrote:With that in mind, I was able to get a piece 3' x 10' to use with the setup I'm working on, which nothing more than a bracket support on one side of the bucket, which would hold the soiled fabric while unrolling it across.. something to that effect..
Well this past weekend I was able to construct the bracket support to be used when filtering a wash with the geotex fabric..

I used CPVC 3/4" plastic pipe to construct the bracket, overall width is 16", with 5" uprights, and some tees and elbows.. the overall width was adjusted to fit a 30L fermenting bucket I have on hand.. the tees were slotted to fit the edge of the bucket, and only the parts from the tee to the elbow were glued, the uprights and centering piece were not glued, allowing for the bracket to be broken down for stored..

After using it for 2 filtering this past weekend, for now I am please with the setup as such.. pictures of the setup...

Mars
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dismantle for storage
dismantle for storage
slotted tee
slotted tee
bracket setup
bracket setup
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

Well I filtered 2 Odin's rye bread with some oats this past weekend using the bracket setup.. the first filtering I used a piece of fabric which measured 25" x 10' long.. after finishing the filtering, I had use only 6' of the fabric and took just over 2 hours.. on the second filtering, I cut the fabric to 6' (shortening it made it easier to clean and rinse after), and this filtering was done in about the same time as the first.. overall every thing went will, started with just enough fabric to clamp it to the cross piece, then as the fabric because mud up, I rolled it up on the support bar by first giving some slack in the front of bucket, then moving the fabric toward the back, then rolling it up.. the tees part of the bracket setup held up quite well through out the filtering run..

Mars
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starting point
starting point
showing the folding of the fabric
showing the folding of the fabric
end of filtering
end of filtering
back view of setup
back view of setup
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by ga flatwoods »

Looks like a good project!
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

It worked out good.. at least you can move it some, walk away and do something else, 10 - 15 minutes later reposition the fabric, and good to go, and in just over 2 hours it's done..

The cleaning up was of some fun.. being winter and -18 C here right now, had to do the cleaning in the laundry tub.. slow and easy, clean the mud off first, then hosed it down in the tub, otherwise, piece of cake in the summer, hose it down and let drip dry..

For the amount of grains I do, Odin's rye bread shine, rice/oats shine, and all corn.. it is a good setup for my fermenting projects..

Thanks flatwood for the mention

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by nerdybrewer »

StillerBoy wrote:It worked out good.. at least you can move it some, walk away and do something else, 10 - 15 minutes later reposition the fabric, and good to go, and in just over 2 hours it's done..

The cleaning up was of some fun.. being winter and -18 C here right now...

Mars
I'm not quite getting it from your pictures.
Do you pull the material up and wrap it around something? Do you pull it up and let it drop to the ground?
How does it work?
I've got a piece that's 10' x 10' right now so I'd like to know.
My initial thought was that I'd make a big BIAB out of it and put it inside my big colander / sieve.
Not sure if that would work out so I'm interested in your method.
I just put it over my BOP and scooped grain into it and let it filter through and moved it around a lot with a really big spoon.
Your method looks more efficient.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

nerdybrewer wrote:My initial thought was that I'd make a big BIAB out of it and put it inside my big colander / sieve.
The fabric is quite strong on its own, having used it only to make a 5" deep bowl shape across a 16" bucket and poured in 5L of trub, it held up very well.. as for making a BIAB with it, would have to shape the fabric in the form of a bag and add some strapping material at every 14 - 16" spacing, with the straps use for lifting, it could work out..
nerdybrewer wrote:I'm not quite getting it from your pictures.
Do you pull the material up and wrap it around something? Do you pull it up and let it drop to the ground?
How does it work?
I ferment in 30L buckets, and my wash are normally 26L.. for my use ( to filter 5L of trub) I cut the fabric at 25" wide, about 10" wider than the bucket width, and the total length was 10' (on the second filtering I used on a piece that was 6' in length).. so for your use, I would recommend using a piece of fabric which would be about 10 - 12" wider than your bucket to be used by the whole length you have..

The setup I put together came about after my initial use of the fabric.. what I found was that as it muds up, the filtering become very slow, but if you exposed the trub to some new fabric, the seepage picked up.. so with that in mind, I put together the bracket so that it would hold the soiled fabric in place over the bucket, and not have to manually hold it..

I start by clipping one end of the fabric to the cross piece of the bracket, then shape the fabric into a 5 -6" bowl and clip the fabric in place, with the rest of the fabric unfolded hanging down in front.. then pour / scoop your wash into it.. (you may want to rack the cleared wash first, therefore having less to scoop out).. as the fabric muds up / soils, un-clip the front and move about 6 - 8" of new fabric, then take up the slack by repositioning the back clips, then fold the soiled fabric in 3 and roll it onto the top bar, clip and wait until requiring another move..

While the fabric is doing its thing, there is no need to spoon the mud around, as it doesn't help speed up the filtering..

Hope this helps in better understanding of the pictures..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by nerdybrewer »

Thanks StillerBoy, yes that does help a lot.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by SpiritOf76 »

This thread has been such a gem for me. I hope to buy some 6 oz non woven needle punched geotextile.

Here's a vendor selling small sizes. They sell direct from their website and at Amazon.

Here's the link to the 6 oz on their website. Currently shipping free (end of season sale). Today is Sept 18, 2019.

https://www.supergeotextile.com/collect ... 9203087305

Unfortunately the smaller 3 ft x 50 ft qty ($56) is out of stock. But if you have $100 and some friends who need less than 100 ft you can get the 3' x 100' piece and share.

I can't vouch for how well it works because I'm just like the rest of you (with the exception of the great innovator GA Flatwoods, thank you so much !!) I have no experience with material of this type. 6 oz is the lightest they sell. GA Flatwoods says the lighter the more/faster liquid filters through. It might be that 6 oz doesn't deliver the results GA Flatwoods achieves with 4 oz.

Also here's a video of how the material is used in dredging sludge and recovering the water for lakes, rivers, etc. Note this is not from the vendor linked above. The video is making me crazy while i deal with biab bags and pillowcases. Filtration action starts at about 1:32
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

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Spirit.. why paid those prices.. find a road contractor in your area, as they all use the stuff now a days, get in touch with the manager and ask him for piece 3' x the width of the sheet in exchange for bottle of wine.. that's what I've done, the geotex last for yrs.. rinse after use, dry, and store..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by SpiritOf76 »

Thanks good suggestion SB.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

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SpiritOf76 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:44 am Thanks good suggestion SB.
Know what? this has been bugging me. No offense SB or anybody, but the material isn't the manager's to give. If the owner of the business is willing, no problem. But as a business owner, I thought about this a lot and I realized not everybody would give the manager a second chance to shift goods for his own gain. The business pays cash for its materials and the manager would be stealing in this case.

It's apparently too late to edit my original post so I had to put this comment up. Not preaching at you or moralizing. This is the reality. If my bakery manager was selling sacs of cornmeal out the back door and pocketing the money, he'd be fired full stop.

But back to my post with links to purchase - it's a lot less expensive for me to push the button and have the product delivered for $100 than to spend that much time finding someone to make a deal and picking up the product. I'd miss opportunities worth much more than that cost. And, if I want to use the extra to increase my batch size and processing speed with multiple strainer setups, it's a huge bargain when I think about total time saved. Then, multiply that by 10 years while the material endures...

I think I just talked myself into ordering at least one roll.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

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SpiritOf76 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:33 pm Know what? this has been bugging me. No offense SB or anybody, but the material isn't the manager's to give. If the owner of the business is willing, no problem. But as a business owner, I thought about this a lot and I realized not everybody would give the manager a second chance to shift goods for his own gain. The business pays cash for its materials and the manager would be stealing in this case.
I use the manager as a starting point.. if that offences you, then change it to the owner.. what's the deal, manager have the authority to manage themselve in accordance to what the own allows..

Whatever, it's your journey..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

This geo stuff is available on eBay in small sizes for not much $$, I just saw a 5' x 10' piece for less than $20.

Or better yet, put your money toward a "barrel strainer", a 400 micron plastic dish shaped filter screen that fits on a 55 gallon barrel.
They work great if you slush them around a bit like panning for gold. Best no-press method I ever found.
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by greggn »

>Or better yet, put your money toward a "barrel strainer", a 400 micron plastic dish shaped filter screen that fits on a 55 gallon barrel.


I prefer the 600-micron mesh but that's splitting hairs ... these strainers rock (especially given the cost):

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item. ... id=popcorn
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Seattlite »

This apple press looks like a great mash press to me (press the grain in a nylon bag).
Any down side?
image.png
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by StillerBoy »

Seattlite wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:36 pm This apple press looks like a great mash press to me (press the grain in a nylon bag).
Any down side?
Yeah.. Size.. 3.75 gal is small to me..

I got a 5 and 7 gal one (homemade) and the 5 gal is just the limit on 6.5 gal mash..

One other point.. get the 5 gal nylon bag for the brewshop use for wine making, much more durable than the paint ones.. also, if you do get one, make some addition plates, cause if you try to squeeze more that 2" or so, it become harder to squeeze all the liquid out.. with the extra hardly any losses..

Mars
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Re: Best All Grain Press is a "No-Press"!

Post by Tōtōchtin »

Google water hash or bubble hash bags. They are quite industrial. I have a 20 gallon set now for over 10 years.
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