Home Malting with couple of pics

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gsugg
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Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by gsugg »

I had a previous thread about first malting trials. Everybody said post pics. Well, since then I've done pretty well malting barley, wheat, and now oats. I've got corn that is starting to sprout, but it's been a constant battle to keep it from molding. I soaked it in 1% peroxide, stirred it several times a day, and have even resorted to spraying it with the peroxide solution every time it needs moisture. I'm not sure it's worth it, especially considering how easy the other grains are in comparison. I unfortunately had not taken photos of the other grains. I do however have current pics of both the oats and corn. Both were started on the same day, which was 3 1/2 days ago. I know the corn takes way longer; I'm just not sure it can hang on long enough! What's the opinion of the oats and corn, at least first impressions until we see how they do when used? FYI: 5 lbs of corn and 10 lbs of oats.
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Good pics...does the peroxide do a good job of inhibiting the mold on the corn?
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Interesting!
I am doing a series of grains using the malted grains and the flour.
It is difficult to prevent molding and some grains do not easily sprout. Barley and oat are peeled and than do not sprout anymore. Got some organical seeding barley and used it, but did not make pictures of it.
Did the last stripping run today, but can not make pictures of the taste of smell.

Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Kareltje wrote:Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Still Life »

kiwi Bruce wrote:Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!
Aren't oats also bad to sprout on your own?
Some bad bacteria... or was that an old wives tale?
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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kiwi Bruce wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!
Oh! Thank you for the warning!
I do not want to be found dancing in the streets! :crazy:
But what can be done about it? And how to recognize it? How do other people sprout their rye?
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Kareltje »

Still Life wrote:
kiwi Bruce wrote:Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!
Aren't oats also bad to sprout on your own?
Some bad bacteria... or was that an old wives tale?
I was told that barley and oats grains are peeled before being used as food, and the peeling destroys or deminishes the sprouting power.
I bought some barley in a food shop and it hardley sprouted. The organically seed barley I use sprouted quite good.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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kiwi Bruce wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!
ergot is bad in bread.

What makes you think it is inherrent in rye - to a greater extent than in other flour ?
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Ergot on grain produces an alkaloid :- Ergotamine that is a powerful vasoconstrictor ie it closes down the blood flow to the extremities. The results are catastrophic!
Ergot poisoning.jpg
From what I've read ergot can infect any grain, but rarely so. It's mainly found on rye, and it's NOT rare! I don't know how the commercial malters do it, but they do so, and safely. Purchase your rye malt, it's not worth the risk.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Pikey »

thank you Bruce - the reply was a bit like "Global warming" zealots - I didn't ask "what ergot did" (or was reputed to do ) - I asked what made you think it was prevalent in rye - to the state of climbing a column and sending us all insane ?
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by gsugg »

I don't think I'm qualified to say what is safe or not or others, but I can tell you that for me at least, it's been pretty easy to tell if you've got anything else growing in your malt. Smell and feel is way off and pretty easy to tell. Enough so that I'm not worried about using what I sprout for me personally. But I grew up on a farm and have been planting/sprouting grain since 7 or 8 years old. That's why I'm not trying anymore corn. I can't produce it without getting mold growth.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by zapata »

You can SEE ergot in grains. Looks like little purplish horns. Tends to, but doesn't quite float, meaning it will rise to the top during rinsing, but might not float away like twigs and leaves. Not uncommon in birdseed due to both millet and sorghum. Ergot is a whole genus (claviceps), many species of which can infect almost any grain, although the most famous is on rye.

Food quality grains have already had the ergot separated and are no worry to malt. Yes even rye, its no more dangerous to malt rye than to bake bread. Rye is no more dangerous than wheat or millet, it's just historically better known. If you have non-food grade grains (ANY grains), you will be able to see ergot sclerotia in it.

Note, it is only the sclerotia that produce notable amounts of the poisons, so even if you had ergot growing on your grains it would be undetectable without the sclerotia horns.

See pics and learn about the hosts and lifecycle at wikipedia. I think concerns about rye over other grains is just fear mongering, even if its unintentional repitition of such. If you want to see ergot for yourself, just go buy a bag of mixed birdseed, I've never had a bag that didn't have ergot sclerotia in it.

Edit to add, ergot is not some invisible killer growing on the grain. Due to the life cycle it is either visibly there starting from sclerotia or its not. Due to the ergot life cycle, the only way to have ergot growing on the grain if it doesnt come from the very visible sclerotia would be if it was used fresh off a plant, and harvested before the grain was mature.

Now, if there were a market for shady dirty non food grade FLOUR, I would consider that suspect and its where most historical poisoning came from. Once its ground to flour you can't see the ergot anymore. But in grain? Sticks out like a sunflower seed would in a bucket of rye, you'd see it everytime you mixed it.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by kiwi Bruce »

THANK YOU ZAPATA! This is why a forum like ours is so valuable...as Proverb 21:17 states "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" It is truly great to be involved with a group of like minded friends who bring so much to the table! I thank you all and I thank you again Zapata!
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Indeed: thank you zapata, for your factual information.
I wanted to know if the poison would come over with the distillate, but that is not necessary anymore.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by gsugg »

Zap,

Is that what I remember seeing in ears of corn still on the stalk? It would look like huge blackish/purple growths growing right on the ear. I know it was bad looking enough there is no way anybody would take a chance and use that ear, much less handle it in any way. I just know that whatever it was, it's bad. Seems to grow more in years when the corn has been stressed; like too much water, not enough, etc.

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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Pikey »

Yes thank you zapata - most instructive. As a bird-keeper (cockatiels mainly) for some 10 years a few decades ago, I used to get through around 2 bags a week (20kg) and I have never once noticed it. I wonder if location is of any relevance ? I also wonder why it does not seem to kill the birds.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Pikey »

gsugg wrote:Zap,

Is that what I remember seeing in ears of corn still on the stalk? It would look like huge blackish/purple growths growing right on the ear. I know it was bad looking enough there is no way anybody would take a chance and use that ear, much less handle it in any way. I just know that whatever it was, it's bad. Seems to grow more in years when the corn has been stressed; like too much water, not enough, etc.

Gsugg
That's what the pictures I've seen look like too.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Corn Smut.jpg
If it looks like this it's corn Smut...not only is it edible, but it's considered a delicacy in most of the Spanish speaking world. It's also valuable...our local Mexican store said they'd pay $16.00 a pound for it, if I ever got some again. Last year I had half a dozen ears, I gave it all away to our Mexican neighbors...I couldn't look past the ugliness of it, to put in into my mouth.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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kiwi Bruce wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!

+++ There are stories that all the events surrounding the Salem Witch Trials were caused by moldy rye -- a very rainy wet cold year or two around that time and place and the grain was contaminated.

Use another grain to get your malt and then use that to convert fresh rye.

.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Pikey »

Here's a pic of something like what I was seeing before - but it's less dramatic - the description says 2 mm thick and 1-1.5 centimetres long (aboutt 1/2 ")
http://www.first-nature.com/fungi/clavi ... rpurea.php

Here's a bit of a discussion from a mushroom forum - towards the end of the discussion they discuss toxicity.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfl ... r/23162119

Useful stuff apparently, ergot has been used since teh middle ages to induce abortions. It contains Lysergic acid - a precurser to LSD and drugs derived from it are used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by Pikey »

Cu29er wrote:
.....+++ There are stories that all the events surrounding the Salem Witch Trials were caused by moldy rye -- a very rainy wet cold year or two around that time and place and the grain was contaminated.........
There were "witches" burnt at stakes, drowned by being proven innocent and tortured int confessions of heresy everywhere all over Europe as well as just in Salem. Ever heard of the Spanish inquisition ?

Why is it that Salem is supposed to be dfferent ? because it was kids who were denouncing adults ? Plenty of manipulative Sociall workers and the like using children for denouncing parents even in the late 20th century. I can quote examples of !Satanic Child abuse outbreaks in several locations in Britain which were eventually proven to be false - but not until after the children had been taken away and adopted and teh parets lost everything by being imprisoned. - Nothing to do with mouldy bread !
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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kiwi Bruce wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Next will be a rye. I will make pictures of it.
Just a heads up...from everything I've read, DON'T SPROUT YOUR OWN RYE. There is a good chance of it having ergot spores...this is the last thing you want growing on you grains...very very dangerous!

Apparently the life cycle of ergot (purpurea) is such that there will not be spores on the grain. only the "horns"

From that mushroom forum I linked to :-

"....The fruits do not grow until the sclerotia drops in the fall and then they grow from the sclerotia on the ground the following spring, pretty hard to find unless you know where to look and do so carefully. As I understand it they put out stroma (fruits) in early spring, the same time that their host plants flower, and within a week or so of that they will start attacking the host plant and growing sclerotia. They also tend to be in sequence with the presence of various bugs since bugs help to carry the spores to the florets. Sclerotia will form roughly 3 weeks after spore infection of the host. I am not sure how long it takes sclerotia to fully develop however, whether that means they *are* fully developed in 3 weeks or what, that is just what I have read....."
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Pikey,

Those pictures are exactly what I was talking about. I can't believe somebody would pay for that! No telling how much money we knocked on the ground; growing up it showed up on sweet corn when we'd be through breaking all we wanted and the left was left out in the field. I know I couldn't eat that mess!

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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Don't know about posting pirate book links, but this 500 page book on ergot is not too hard to find.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Er ... fyQC&hl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Ergot is scary, and dangerous, but read about it's life cycle, look at a few pics and you won't fear whole rye grains, or wheat for that matter which is also commonly infected.
It is pretty rare in corn, I've never seen it in feed corn. I've just now read that there are some species that can grow on corn, but not the one most prevalent to rye and wheat.
Btw, I'm far from an ergot expert, just studied it a bit in school about the time I noticed it in birdseed and included it in a paper or two.
Maybe we've sidetracked this thread enough though? Some people will always just be afraid of rye, which is perfectly fine as long as someone points out rye can be perfectly safe.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I'm drying the last 20# of 200# of rye I just malted.
Don't be afraid of malting rye.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by The Baker »

gsugg wrote:Pikey,

Those pictures are exactly what I was talking about. I can't believe somebody would pay for that! No telling how much money we knocked on the ground; growing up it showed up on sweet corn when we'd be through breaking all we wanted and the left was left out in the field. I know I couldn't eat that mess!

GSugg
Ever tasted 'sticky' dessert wines?

Beautiful stuff, commonly made from grapes infected with botrytis cinerea. Look it up in Wikipedia; there are photos there and from what it looks like you would never consume anything made with that!

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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by gsugg »

Michigan,

How do you dry yours? If it's hot outside, I put mine outside for the sun to dry. If it's not, I use combination of a dehydrator, squirrel cage fan, and an oven.

Pic below is the oats dry, but not tumbled yet to remove dryed roots and shoots. The corn I've decided is only worth it if I can get a continuous flow of water, or at least do a few hundred pounds at the time since you have to work it so much.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by gsugg »

Geoff,

Okay, so you've now ruined dessert wines from now on! It's like the time I went to a rather famous restaurant near here and had something especially "chewy". When I checked, it was a used band-aid with a blood spot on it. Needless to say, never eaten there again. I don't even want to go look that up!
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I air dry my malts on racks with a fan outside in the sun.

After air drying, I heat the grains in my oven at 200F for a few hours.
I believe the oven "kilning" is an important part of the process, developing different flavors than just air drying will alone.
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Re: Home Malting with couple of pics

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Michigan,

I do the same with the oven, only I do about 180 for an hour. I agree with you it helps develop flavor. But I don't like to go so long that it starts caramelizing. Plus, I don't want to lose any enzymes to the heat.
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