Interesting aging experiment....

Any hardware used in the mashing /fermenting or aging of product

Moderator: Site Moderator

Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 pm

So I have aged a lot of liquor before but I wanted to just try something different to see if I got a different result.

What I did was is use your typical aging sticks, spirals, chips ,excetera... but before I used them on "good" likker, i soaked them in super high proof heads first.


I then used these chunks, chips and sticks (did it a few different ways) and poured out the heads and then added my "good" white dog hearts.


I must say the results are inspiring.


While i try to keep out all heads before aging...i know SOME heads can be good.

That is why i only wanted to soak my chunks, chips and sticks in the heads instead of including them in the "good" spirit.


I have no idea if anyone has written a post on this before..but its worth a try!

The smells and taste on these " experimental" spirits are very different in a good way.

I have just gotten my second dram and I will let you know how the hangover is tomorrow :lolno:
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby acfixer69 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:49 pm

Why do cut's ? Why not just buy commercial.

AC
User avatar
acfixer69
Site Mod
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:01 pm

If that was a joke it was terribly executed.


Sorry, but you are a mod on a home distiller site and you are encouraging commercial sales??

You lost me.

The only thing I can think that you are insinuating is is that I don't make cuts, which is inaccurate.


Seriously...wtf?

This was an experiment that had a result which I did not expect and I felt I should report in case anyone else wants to try.
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby acfixer69 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:08 pm

NO
yes and for you yea

said why make cuts if stickily heads back in.

no insult


AC
User avatar
acfixer69
Site Mod
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:15 pm

Huh?


No yes yea?


Commercial distilleries- As We Know- put heads and to the barrels that imparts certain flavors and Aromas.


I was merely stating this experiment out loud.... I didn't add any heads in, only aging components that were soaked in some heads.

I don't take it as an insult I just take it that you are inside the box.

No big deal but some explanation would have been better coming from a mod.

Being opinionated without cause is one thing.


being open to experimentation is another.

To each his own? :lolno:
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby thecroweater » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:00 pm

I guess a simplified question would be why do cuts just to undo it with that aging process, why not make your cuts a little wider if ya into heads.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
thecroweater
Site Mod
 
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:02 pm

thecroweater wrote:I guess a simplified question would be why do cuts just to undo it with that aging process, why not make your cuts a little wider if ya into heads.




Because I did not want to impart a lot of heads. I wanted to try to incorporate those flavors and smells into the liquor without actually putting a quantifiable amount into the liquor itself.


:)


I must say it works!
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:03 pm

Trust me I expected people to be like WTF?



But that is why I do these types of experiments! Because without doing them you wouldn't know!!


I will continue to do the untested.
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:34 pm

Worm_Drippinz wrote:I have just gotten my second dram and I will let you know how the hangover is tomorrow :lolno:


If you are like me , you won't have one . I seem immune to the heads hangover most seem to get :crazy:
Anyway I'd doubt that there would be that much from just soaking in some oak .
Worm_Drippinz wrote:...... i soaked them in super high proof heads first.
:


How long did you soak them ? ,
I assume that there was no foreshots in there but curious was it early middle or late heads that you used ...or was it just a mix .
Just that I really love the smell of early Rum heads but the taste doesn't do it for me . I do add late Rum heads in .

Its an interesting experiment , but I wonder how much heads gets soaked into the oak , hence the "how long did you soak" question . Is there some reaction / interaction between the heads and the Oak thats at work here or would simply adding back some heads do the same thing ?
User avatar
Yummyrum
Site Mod
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Mid North Coast Aussie

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:21 pm

Yummyrum wrote:
Worm_Drippinz wrote:I have just gotten my second dram and I will let you know how the hangover is tomorrow :lolno:


If you are like me , you won't have one . I seem immune to the heads hangover most seem to get :crazy:
Anyway I'd doubt that there would be that much from just soaking in some oak .
Worm_Drippinz wrote:...... i soaked them in super high proof heads first.
:


How long did you soak them ? ,
I assume that there was no foreshots in there but curious was it early middle or late heads that you used ...or was it just a mix .
Just that I really love the smell of early Rum heads but the taste doesn't do it for me . I do add late Rum heads in .

Its an interesting experiment , but I wonder how much heads gets soaked into the oak , hence the "how long did you soak" question . Is there some reaction / interaction between the heads and the Oak thats at work here or would simply adding back some heads do the same thing ?



No fores!!! The second qt of heads on a sweet feed run. 150 proof. Soaked one week then dumped (looked killer but that god aweful rubbing alcohol smell.


Aired the "oaking goodies" out two days then filled with hearts.


I should have mentioned that but I am not that great with taking notes, I just go off of "the moment" what i am doing.

Really just wanted to see if anybody had done that or anything similar and post it up to get responses.


I was hoping 4 people to respond with comments/opinions other than "why" or "yah ok no".


Guess we only have a few forward-thinkers?


No big deal.

Without experimenting everything will be a repeat of the same ol shit.
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby thecroweater » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:12 pm

True DAT, but might question about what you were hoping to achieve that a small inclusion of heads wouldn't was pretty valid I feel. Now if you said you allowed the higher alcohols to evaporate off to see if interesting esters remained that would be another thing. Experiments to show the world is flat is not by definition forward thinking IMHO.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
thecroweater
Site Mod
 
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:18 pm

thecroweater wrote:True DAT, but might question about what you were hoping to achieve that a small inclusion of heads wouldn't was pretty valid I feel. Now if you said you allowed the higher alcohols to evaporate off to see if interesting esters remained that would be another thing. Experiments to show the world is flat is not by definition forward thinking IMHO.




Re-read last comment- get back to me.





You mods got me wondering!!
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby NZChris » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:31 pm

There wouldn't be enough nasties left in "sticks, spirals, chips ,excetera" to consider this experiment as equal to putting heads back, or doing bad cuts. There may be compounds formed that are advantageous, so ignore naysayers, regardless of their forum rankings, and carry on experimenting.
Last edited by NZChris on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 4675
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:32 pm

thecroweater wrote:Experiments to show the world is flat is not by definition forward thinking IMHO.



Btw-

Wow!


Good to know im a flat earther!! Lmmfao. - kidding!!!!



Thanks for the laugh even though that was a terrible analogy.

I will contine my experiments through all of this i assure you.


I hope others see the travesty in some of these replys.
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:36 pm

NZChris wrote:There wouldn't be enough nasties left in "sticks, spirals, chips ,excetera" to consider this experiment as equal to putting heads back, or doing bad cuts. There may be compounds formed that are advantageous, so ignore naysayers, regardless of their forum rankings, and carry on experimenting.





THANKS BROTHER!!!


looking forward to tinkering more with "stupid" stuff -for sure!!!



I hope i got some gears turning even if it is not what i "expect".


If i screw up my hooch i will dump and continue, but this does have me thinking.


The honey, caramel, and vanilla notes have me dumbfounded....really!
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby thecroweater » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:16 am

well that escalated considering I started by simply clarifying what other players were saying, then some crap dragged up about "ranking" :roll: . Point being if there is not enough nasties then there is not enough of anything, adding heads is adding heads weather its via contaminated timber or tipped in. If you found something you think you are missing then the most likely concussion is your cuts are to narrow. What is not likely is the sticks are magically holding back things you don't want and somehow increasing some mysterious compounds that are wholly desirable. I'm not having a go buddy I just think this experiment lacks a bit of logic or at least the concussion you seem to be drawing from it.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
thecroweater
Site Mod
 
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:15 am

thecroweater wrote:well that escalated considering I started by simply clarifying what other players were saying, then some crap dragged up about "ranking" :roll: . Point being if there is not enough nasties then there is not enough of anything, adding heads is adding heads weather its via contaminated timber or tipped in. If you found something you think you are missing then the most likely concussion is your cuts are to narrow. What is not likely is the sticks are magically holding back things you don't want and somehow increasing some mysterious compounds that are wholly desirable. I'm not having a go buddy I just think this experiment lacks a bit of logic or at least the concussion you seem to be drawing from it.



Not a problem.


I am not going to eye roll anyone.

I would hope we would all respect each other enough.


I am not asking your personal opinion at this point, since it was levied on your first assumption, along with others.



For those willing to try, i feel there is some merrit out there, and that this is something to look into.


We all know billionare distilliries use these unwanted heads and i feel there is some junction where they might be warrented.

Where? Im looking.



Consider soaking some aging sticks to be the least invasive of cuts, you might be suprised.


i find this expierement to be the most conclusive with as little "intrusion" as possible.



For whatever that means to anyone i find after a pint and a half of 145 proof mixed into juice i am very un-aggressive and extremely loving right now.


All of this goes into my expierements weither it be the likker itself ......but also its effects.


I am not mad but happy i can still engage everyone positively.


I hope you all have a good night and find what you are looking for.


I am beyond perfect as a person and i accept that now.


I am here to learn not judge. But i do love you all.

Cheers and goodnight :)
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Kareltje » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:11 am

It might be interesting, indeed.
But to gain more insight it would be nice if you take more notes, when you repeat it. Your OP was quite meagre and it was very helpfull that you added more details, like which part of the heads and letting the sticks vent out some days.

But this is much more about oaking than about aging, I think.
User avatar
Kareltje
Distiller
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:29 pm

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby SaltyStaves » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:36 am

I've not tried heads, but I use low proof (100-110) to break-in virgin oak in test tubes before it goes on to age 120+ distillate. I also discard the donor spirit and air dry the dominoes.
The exception to this is American whiskies where you would want to maintain some new oak (varnish) taste.
The lower proof is to leech water soluble tannin into the donor spirit.

What you have not mentioned, is whether you experimented using heads as an alternative to your usual practice of preconditioning oak, or you preconditioned some oak for the first time and just happened to use heads? If its the latter, then the cut may be irrelevant and you are simply noticing the mellowing effect of having leeched some of the tannin into a donor spirit.
SaltyStaves
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:54 am

SaltyStaves wrote:I've not tried heads, but I use low proof (100-110) to break-in virgin oak in test tubes before it goes on to age 120+ distillate. I also discard the donor spirit and air dry the dominoes.
The exception to this is American whiskies where you would want to maintain some new oak (varnish) taste.
The lower proof is to leech water soluble tannin into the donor spirit.

What you have not mentioned, is whether you experimented using heads as an alternative to your usual practice of preconditioning oak, or you preconditioned some oak for the first time and just happened to use heads? If its the latter, then the cut may be irrelevant and you are simply noticing the mellowing effect of having leeched some of the tannin into a donor spirit.





Aye! Ye salty stave!

My friend, my brother, my conscientious objector!!


I love your lateral thinking! Decisive, objectional and forward.


Your guess is as good as mine.

From pulling the superfluous from the genisis, to incorporating those possible elements that are unostracized ... the definitive is yours, as we are always looking tward the advantageous.


The question always remains..... what is auspicious when speaking of those elements which are commendatory?!


From my unornamented tests it seems that the unembellished assesses i have completed has ultimately led to a discernible appropriation in which the discourteous results leads others to ultimate discord.

Unfathomable reproach is sanctifying me towards an unrelenting explanation of dissonance that the unreliable expectations of experience is actually within our positive grasp.

Wait. Did that last make sense? lol

Whether or not anybody wants to believe it.... My experiments dealing with aging Wood being exposed to "heady" spirits and then used with "hearts" is unobjectionable in the end.

The proof is in the pudding as they say, which I am willing to lay down under the right circumstance.


The aroma and flavors that I've experienced might be subjective and point to, but are not innocuous in the final product.


Only like-minded works can prove positive in this instance, although always objectional.


Results prove positive, i feel.


Time will tell.
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:55 am

Worm_Drippinz wrote:Really just wanted to see if anybody had done that or anything similar and post it up to get responses.

I haven't tried anything like this yet, but I have read about people doing similar with oak and sherry to use in aging scotch.
Similar in that the presoaked sticks contribute a different character to the spirit than just adding sherry to the scotch.
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
User avatar
MichiganCornhusker
Site Mod
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Kareltje » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:45 am

My my, Worm-Drippinz, got a dictionary hitting your head? :roll:
User avatar
Kareltje
Distiller
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:29 pm

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby cranky » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:15 pm

I like to pre condition my sticks too by soaking them in neutral or not quite neutral for a week or so before using them for other things to help remove some of the harsher things from the wood. I can actually see where doing it with certain heads could help add certain flavors without causing problems because really any heads that would get in the final product would be pretty minimal.
Sometimes I pretend to be normal but it gets boring so I go back to being me

A message to new members
We want you to be safe and succeed so start here
My Simple Controller
My Apple Brandy Recipe
User avatar
cranky
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 4565
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby HDNB » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:34 pm

Kareltje wrote:My my, Worm-Drippinz, got a dictionary hitting your head? :roll:


:lol: :lol: isn't the purpose usually to read the definitions before trying to fit them in a sentence? :moresarcasm:
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby rumbuff » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:47 pm

I think this has some merit. Many threads have been started about brandies and the fruity aroma that's in the heads. I think my rum and my recent bourbon would benefit from some of the "heads" but allowed enough time, the harsher components would evaporate and leave just the good flavours behind. If we imagine the flavour esters and the head compounds to be very close in vapour temperature, it would make sense that only time would seperate the two, and it's because they're so close that including both would allow the one we can't quite eliminate to leave the aged spirit. Just trying to understand the possible interactions that might explain the results.
rumbuff
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby OtisT » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:34 am

Hey WormD. I really do like your experiment.

IMHO I find it in line with some thoughts on the ester threads, and am not surprised you were pleseantly surprised by the results. A few replies back someone stated what I’m thinking, that there would be some ester creation taking place in your pre-soak, and I could see how using more heads alcohols could produce something interesting. (Different alcohols can create different eaters when mixed with oak.). He said soak then let it air out before use. I’m thinking maybe also try a few soak/sit/air cycles to give esterfication time to work.

Unless you are one of the Never Use Heads crowd, I would not think there is an issue using heads to soak your wood, so long it has time to age out to your liking.

I like the way you think. Keep it up. Otis.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
viewtopic.php?t=52975
OtisT
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:19 pm

Thanks fellas.


Im a wild card...remember that. Lol


Hope yall had an awesome holiday :D
Worm_Drippinz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:35 am

Re: Interesting aging experiment....

Postby jonnys_spirit » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 am

Good to read about this and yes let’s please use both art and science in our pursuit of magic. I pre treat a bunch of my sticks in sherry, wine, and also reuse them. Sometimes retoast them too.

These things are not necessarily scientific but if I do 100 batches all of them with different protocol then I might eventually feel like I have learned something.

Ciao!
-j
jonnys_spirit
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: Nashville, TN


Return to Mashing and Fermenting Flavoring/Aging Related Hardware



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests