Electrifying!

[malignity]

Got a mild safety issue. Just a little itty bitty one
that could cause some major issues, cause alcohol and electricity sound like a wonderful combo.

I have my stainless pot, my copper worm in a 5 gallon bucket...

Turned on my electric burner, all is well... And then I touch the worm and get myself a good little tingle. Like pretty uncomfortable.

Figured it's my burner, I use it a lot to boil skulls outside, so I replace it. Same thing with the new burner.

Tried a different plug and a heavy duty extension cord. My worm gets pretty electrified and that sounds like lots of fire waiting to happen.

What the heck is going on and how do I fix it?

[HDNB]

so tell us more, a hot plate? stove top? inductive or resistive type? internal immersible water heater element?

photos are awesome.

i'm sure you are aware a tingle like that is dangerous...like if your foot was in water when you got that tingle you likely would not be still talking about it...kinda serious.

electricity takes the easiest path to ground, so that tingle says you were somewhat insulated from ground, enough it did not kill you which is lucky.

help us help you before the worst happens...we got some great electrical minds here, engineers, licensed sparkies all them good people.

post up more info, all the details you can muster.

[hellbilly007]

Sounds like the circuit is not properly grounded. Could be anywhere between the breaker box and burner.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

so tell us more, a hot plate? stove top? inductive or resistive type? internal immersible water heater element?

photos are awesome.

post up more info, all the details you can muster.

Exactly, more information is needed. Bottom line is that somehow your system is energized, that is why there should be a ground. With a properly grounded system, if the system is being accidentally energized, it will trip the breaker. If you have a GFCI outlet or GFCI breaker it would trip when you touched it.

All that being said, you need to figure out why your pot and worm are being energized.

Another thought - Assuming that your "electric burner" is wired correctly, perhaps the outlet isn't. Do you have an outlet tester? The kind that plugs into the outlet and illuminates some lights to tell you if you have a fault? My guess might be that ground and neutral are reversed.

Once we have more information, I'm sure that we can diagnose it.

[Pikey]

When my girls were tiny, they used a slide in a local park and I caught them at the bottom to stop them falling off. Quite often I used to get a hefty "Belt" off them as I touched them.

Static electricity can cause sparks too ! Lightning bolts for example.

Either domestic Electricity escaping, induced Electricity, or Static, can all be dispersed safely by adding an Earth wire (Ground) from your worm to a good earth point.

If the cooker is really "Live" it is dangerous - do you have a multimeter ? you need to be testing voltages at various places to see wht is really happening.

[Pikey]

A couple of other possibilities - A transformer consists of an alternating current on one side, an iron core and an induced current on the other side Your cooker ring could be inducing a current in the stainless pot. On the other hand, the copper worm is actually in the form of a coil as per a traditional transformer and could be acting as such.

Anyone with access to an oscilloscope can prove this :

Hold one probe in each hand and note that There is a perfect sine wave on the screen at exactly the same frequency as your house mains. (50 Hertz in UK) - I have had the voltage vary between 2 volts and 24 volts depending how close to the wiring I am standing. So 24/7 we are all acting as transformers and having a current induced in our own bodies at quite significant voltages - asleep or awake.

[malignity]

Sorry for the vague information. I'm using a Mainstays electric coil burner from Walmart. They're $10.

They're not submersible, but it's never gotten wet and the stainless pot is just sitting on it. Two prong plug, coil type.

My buddy is an electrician, he said to plug it into a GFCI. I don't have one where I'm stilling unfortunately. If the circuit is wired incorrectly, that would make sense if I moved plugs that it didn't fix it if they're on the same circuit. I've had plenty of other things plugged into that though without an issue.

I should convince him to come over and check it out with promises of goodness to come after.

I'm wondering if returning the burner and simply getting a 3 pronged wouldn't be a better and safer bet, but that may not be solving the underlying issue. I know little about electricity for the most part. Hopefully that'll help diagnose.

[Swedish Pride]

that sounds dodgy enough mate, can you not just use it on the stove?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Sorry for the vague information. I'm using a Mainstays electric coil burner from Walmart. They're $10.

I just looked at the Walmart page on it. Seems to not be the right tool for the job. It has an internal thermostat with a long cycle time. Reviewers say it can't even boil water. You will be disappointed trying to use this to still with.

They're not submersible, but it's never gotten wet and the stainless pot is just sitting on it. Two prong plug, coil type.

My buddy is an electrician, he said to plug it into a GFCI. I don't have one where I'm stilling unfortunately. If the circuit is wired incorrectly, that would make sense if I moved plugs that it didn't fix it if they're on the same circuit. I've had plenty of other things plugged into that though without an issue.

I should convince him to come over and check it out with promises of goodness to come after.

If you insist on trying to use this burner, definitely have the system checked out.

I'm wondering if returning the burner and simply getting a 3 pronged wouldn't be a better and safer bet, but that may not be solving the underlying issue. I know little about electricity for the most part. Hopefully that'll help diagnose.

Since the burner is a 2 wire system with no ground, a GFCI is about the only way to protect against a fault. A trashcan is probably the correct way, just unplug and then throw the burner in it.

A proper heating system would work much better. What kind of stove do you have? If the stove isn't an option, a small propane single burner isn't that expensive.

[Yummyrum]

Sounds like you have a Bit of leakage from your element to the metal body of your still .If the element has only 2 wires then I'm not surprised . No element insulation is perfect ...there will always be leakage current .
Double insulation was ment to overcome all this and in most cases it does but more and more appliances seem to be entering the market that don't....doesn't mean they will will kill you , just not as good as they should be .
As a TV technician , I've experienced this time and time again . Modern switchmode devices ( commonly referred to as inverter designs) usually have only two wires and the EMF bypass circuitry will make the exposed case of modern devises "Tingle "...this is irrelevant here but just to show that modern practices cause the sensation you may be experiencing.

Now the operative word here is "tingle "...The tingle voltage you get if standing on a concrete or earth floor is just that ....an uncomfortable tingle . It is well within safety guidelines as in it will not harm you ....infact it will not trip and earth leakage detector . ...but it is uncomfortable .
If on the other hand your tingle is 120 belts from hell per second then ,you really need to piss that element off immediately ...this would trip an earth leakage detector and probably save your life ......so which is it

First and simplest thing is to earth /ground the Still /worm
Drive a meter long ( 3-4 foot) preferably copper rod into the ground and connect it to your still with a heavy piece of wire .
This is why the bloody earth /ground wire system was designed and has been used pretty much world wide for as long as electricity has been around .

This will put you and your still at the same ....what we call electrical potential difference......IE there will be nothing to zap you

[still_stirrin]

In an attempt to isolate the cause of the energized boiler, double check all the wiring connections inside your control box to make sure you don't have any "straggling hairs" of copper wire touching the housing or the neutral buss.

If one of the +V or -V wires would be touching either, it could energize the control panel, ground wire, or heater element. Since your boiler is metal and sitting on the element, it would likewise become energized.

Give it all a double check. An ohmmeter would indicate a conduction path as well. The resistance may be high, but if it's not infinite, you could have a short somewhere in the system.
ss

[HDNB]

so some good ideas already!

1) check the receptacle plug in, reversed neutral and ground sounds like a real possibility. especially using a 2 wire appliance.
2) ground the kettle. it will protect you and maybe help find the fault. we all ground the kettle with internal elements, it makes sense to ground the hotplate too.
3) you want to remove the thermostatic control too, it will be a PITA. get the sparky friend to help you. (or maybe get a better heating solution for safety, speed and convenience!)
4)the sparkies friend can check for stray conductors, shorts and reversals. Sounds like you need a case of beer!

[Pikey]

The more I think about this, the more I think you've made a transformer.

You have an ac voltage flowing through a coil. this is in close proximity to a lump of steel (pot) which is in turn joined to another coil made of copper (worm).

The voltage will be the supply voltage divided by the number of turns in the ring, multiplied by the number of turns in your worm. This may be quite high. However the output from a transformer is not earthed so although you can feel it, it will not flow to earth through your body in a massive surge, like mains electric will. It is the earth wire that kills you !

I would take an earth lead from the worm to earth, using the copper rod teqnique as explained above. ALternatively, you could try making a Leibig condenser. that would eliminate the secondary coil and If I'm right will solve your problem.

[malignity]

I've used the heating element to simmer and boil my european mounts. I don't recall this being an issue outside, and given that I swapped burners and still had the same result, I'm thinking it's definitely either the house wiring or the still itself. Driving a 3' copper pipe through my basement floor however isn't something I'm capable of doing, and I imagine grounding it to the steel basement support isn't going to cut it.

I could probably just install a GFCI plug in the basement if that'll fix the problem. I guess I hadn't anticipated this before I built the setup and I hate to change it as it's pretty good minus this glaring issue.

Would just doing a GFCI swap out fix this? I'm thinking economically speaking at this point with minimal damage to both my pocket book and the surrounding area.

I'm trying to convince my electrician buddy that he wants to try this stuff instead of the 5th of Smirnoff he's asking for to come over and have a look see. Lol

[HDNB]

I'm trying to convince my electrician buddy that he wants to try this stuff instead of the 5th of Smirnoff he's asking for to come over and have a look see. Lol

that should be easy.

the gfi will trip if there is a leak, so it will either solve it or help you solve it...cause it'll keep tripping until you fix the problem.

you can ground to exposed copper water pipes too.

[Pikey]

so some good ideas already!

1) check the receptacle plug in, reversed neutral and ground sounds like a real possibility. especially using a 2 wire appliance.
.............

You can check that using an extension lead from upstairs and see if it still happens

[malignity]

I need to give an awesome update on this.

I took back the other burner and these posts had me thinking -- maybe direct coil contact + bad ground means no dice.

I spent a few extra bucks in the Oster model single burner. It doesn't have an exposed coil, but rather a ceramic top. It was also more powerful which is an added plus.

So far it's been 10 minutes and I've not been electrified in any way shape or form. The other unit got zingy after about 60 seconds.

Guess what time it isssss!

[Pikey]

I'm very pleased for you - but it can be somewhat irritating for those of us who have opinions as to the fault and would like an adjudication !

[malignity]

This first run has been quite the experience. If I could make a much bigger version of my buddy's.. would be nice. Geez. Plug and play.

First my fittings started leaking. Quick thinking of FTPE goop fixed that on the fly. I guess tape wasn't good enough.

Then my lid wasn't tight enough and all my vapor wasn't going to the worm. The binder clips didn't have enough of a grip.

5 pairs of vise grips solved that ordeal.

Then I discovered I have some high spots in my worm and like most fluids, alcohol doesn't like to defy gravity. So was tweaking that.

I have no idea how much good vapor I have left, and have already misplaced my hygrometer in this whole ordeal to where I'm just gonna run it and whatever I get I get I guess.

Teething issues. I guess I'm part of the club now -- trial by fire. Lol

[cob]

First my fittings started leaking. Quick thinking of FTPE goop fixed that on the fly.
I guess I'm part of the club now -- trial by fire. Lol

I'm glad you got your electrical sorted,

however FTPE goop sounds dicey.

[Mikey-moo]

First my fittings started leaking. Quick thinking of FTPE goop fixed that on the fly.
I guess I'm part of the club now -- trial by fire. Lol

I'm glad you got your electrical sorted,

however FTPE goop sounds dicey.

Yes - more info on the goop please - sounds dodgy.

You shouldn't be building up enough pressure to require vice grips - have you got a photo of your set up?

[Pikey]

I think he means "PTFE Goop" - not that I've ever heard of it

I also need a sealing clamp to hold the top on my tea urn despite the head of my offset being completely open, that vapour does try to find a way of sneaking out

However I think a photo would be good as well - "Trial by fire...." is exactly what we don't want here

[malignity]

It's water potable Teflon (PTFE) plumbers goop/thread sealant.

Website says it's safe for water, gasoline, and various other similar things. I'm actually pretty surprised I haven't seen it mentioned here after all my reading I've done here in both the do's and don't's.

Here's the link. I'll shoot the company an email now to verify alcohol safeness. You've got me curious. I saw what it was safe safe for, saw it was water potable, and didn't think much of it.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 9jtMvcsOUQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[malignity]

If indeed it's a no go, no harm, no foul. I wasted a ton anyway this first run in teething and I think it's time to change over to a liebig lol

[still_stirrin]

Put a wrap of plumber's tape around the lip of your stock pot boiler. It'll give you a good vapor seal and you can go back to using the miniture binder clips. I use a dozen of them on my stock pot boiler and they work great...no vapor leaks.

Worms are "old school" and best used for fishing. Build a Liebig...you'll be glad you did. Use a copper union to make the attachment to the still head. That way you can easily disassemble for storage or even multitask with another still head when the time comes. And with the union attachment, you can adjust the angle of decline of the Liebig.
ss

[miket]

Glad you got the problem sorted.

About install a GFCI plug, never ever plug your food storage/meat freezer into them. They like to trip and spoil all your stored food.

You cant plug in anything that has to stay running into them. They come bad new strait from the package sometimes.

[zapata]

I would never trust plumbers goop, and you'll never get a statement from the manufacturer telling you its approved for your use. Emergency situations like you had call for simple flour paste. Just flour and water. But with a little practice you'll learn how to use ptfe tape just fine.