Heating Element Control

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Klein
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Klein »

muscashine wrote:
Klein wrote:
Skippydo72 wrote:Why would you put a 30A switch on a 60A SSVR?
The breaker needs to be sized to the wire you are using. Your switch also needs to be sized correctly.
In Canada by code you only load a circuit breaker to 80% of the breaker size.
5500w / 240v = 22.92A
22.92A x 1.25 = 28.65A
You need at least a 30A breaker and 10AWG wire.
The 60 amp rating on the SSVR means you can run up to 60 amps through it. But you don't have to.
Your breaker needs to be the lowest rated element in the system, so it fails FIRST. If you use a 30 amp breaker and 15 amp plugs, you're probably going to start a fire.
So, use your 60amp SSVR on a system designed to run 30 amps at the most. Your SSVR will last a LONG time. If you were constantly pushing your SSVR at nearly 60amps it's probably going to die on you pretty quick.
So like others have said: use a 30 amp breaker, 30 amp plugs (which are engineered to carry 30 amps but have a built-in tolerance to more), an element that pulls no more than 5500 watts, and run the whole thing through your 60amp SSVR. If the feces hits the air circulator, your breaker trips before anything else.
No need to explain it to me, I do it for a living :) great to point out for people that are not knowledgeable about electricity. I did not point out the switch rating as he was talking about using 30A switch and it's a 30A breaker.

Don't upsize a breaker just because it's tripping because you are just going to start a fire.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by muscashine »

haha sorry - quotes thing confuses me sometimes, especially when I'm cutting out some stuff.
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madspeed
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by madspeed »

Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by still_stirrin »

Man, you're gonna' have to search...there's lots of threads in this forum with plenty of methods for you. But you're going to have to try. Asking for spoon feeding is not the way to do it.

Simply search for the term "SCR" and see what you get. Oh, and you can learn how to use the Google search with the thread in my signature.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by cranky »

madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
I think that is just a matter of creativity, I know several people attached their controller boxes directly to the still but I think overheating may be a bit of an issue. Like SS said, look around and see what you can come up with.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by squeezins »

You can make it remote and still portable. It doesn't have to be a big box
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Snackson »

madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
Well, this element might make what you're looking for easier to accomplish. https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ ... rip_wl.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow They also sell the element without the weekends bulkhead if you already have a tri clover fitting on your boiler. Then you can build a controller box with an L6-30R panel mounted and use it like that.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by squeezins »

cwood wrote:What about a Router Speed Controller....? I believe they are just HD rheostats, not the preferred variac.However, because they are designed to regulates the speed of a router motor, probably up to 3 HP at say 10-15 amps, wouldn't that do just as well...? Easy to plug into wall, and plug heating element into Speed controller....??? Not too pricey either..... Anybody ever done that??? Feed back............??

Thanks,

CW
i think there is a thread in here somewhere about a router speed controller. It should come up in a search.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Snackson »

squeezins wrote:
cwood wrote:What about a Router Speed Controller....? I believe they are just HD rheostats, not the preferred variac.However, because they are designed to regulates the speed of a router motor, probably up to 3 HP at say 10-15 amps, wouldn't that do just as well...? Easy to plug into wall, and plug heating element into Speed controller....??? Not too pricey either..... Anybody ever done that??? Feed back............??

Thanks,

CW
i think there is a thread in here somewhere about a router speed controller. It should come up in a search.
That post was from 2006 when he started this 57 page long thread...
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by squeezins »

Lol. How did that happen??
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Heating Element Control

Post by Opdog »

While this has been bumped - what is the name of the cover that goes over the end of the heating element and the line to the boiler? I'm in the process of upgrading from 120 to 240 and need a new one. I can't find one.

Edit: Nevermind. I found my build notebook. It is heatshrink tubing.

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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by rad14701 »

madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
Several members have used plastic junction boxes with a hole cut out in the back so the controller, element, and all, is inside the junction box... You'll have to search around in the many topics on the subject but I know it has been done... One of the benefits of reading every post...
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by muscashine »

rad14701 wrote:
madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
Several members have used plastic junction boxes with a hole cut out in the back so the controller, element, and all, is inside the junction box... You'll have to search around in the many topics on the subject but I know it has been done... One of the benefits of reading every post...
I used a plastic ABS box for mine, about 6 inches wide, 12 inches long and maybe 4 inches high, with a screw-on top plate. The heating element gets warm after extended use, my only regret is only running a 10/2 with ground, all I have is 220v. If I had access to 120V in the box, I could have added a small 12v power supply and attached a PC case fan to the top of the heat sink to cool it off.

I just had a thought - If I could find a 120v in, 6 volt out, power supply, I could run it on the 220volt line... :)
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by rad14701 »

muscashine wrote:
rad14701 wrote:
madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
Several members have used plastic junction boxes with a hole cut out in the back so the controller, element, and all, is inside the junction box... You'll have to search around in the many topics on the subject but I know it has been done... One of the benefits of reading every post...
I used a plastic ABS box for mine, about 6 inches wide, 12 inches long and maybe 4 inches high, with a screw-on top plate. The heating element gets warm after extended use, my only regret is only running a 10/2 with ground, all I have is 220v. If I had access to 120V in the box, I could have added a small 12v power supply and attached a PC case fan to the top of the heat sink to cool it off.

I just had a thought - If I could find a 120v in, 6 volt out, power supply, I could run it on the 220volt line... :)
One of the 120V mains and Neutral gives you 120V off your 240V supply... Neutral, not Ground...
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by StillerBoy »

I build my using an old cash box, 7" x 8" x 4" .. got 240 coming in onto a block, then you have 240 or 120 available to hook whatever is required.. have a power adpator for the 12 volt.. been using it for over 2 years now with no issues.. the extra meters were added after I had built the unit, since they were the kind that I was looking but could not find at the time of the build..

Here's some pictures of my setup..

Mars
Attachments
wiring front side
wiring front side
wiring inside / backside
wiring inside / backside
controller in operation
controller in operation
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Snackson »

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007PQ0K ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

240v PC fan that you can hook up directly to your controller. I've bought plenty of these and they work great.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by TxBrewing »

Snackson wrote:
madspeed wrote:Been scanning through all 57 pages lately. Has anyone found a method to attach one of the cheap ebay SCR units at the heating element and have say a 6' power cable to plug into a 30 amp outlet? Maybe I missed it along the way, but hat is what I'm trying to accomplish. I dont really want a stand alone unit, going for the simplicity and portability
Well, this element might make what you're looking for easier to accomplish. https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ ... rip_wl.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow They also sell the element without the weekends bulkhead if you already have a tri clover fitting on your boiler. Then you can build a controller box with an L6-30R panel mounted and use it like that.
I just and by just I mean 2 min ago ordered the elements enclosure from them. It will be my 10th order from them. Bobby is amazing. Love all his stuff


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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

TxBrewing wrote: It will be my 10th order from them. Bobby is amazing. Love all his stuff


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+1. Love Bobby. I'm going to see him tomorrow to pick up grains. Need to re up my stout tap! :thumbup:
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by TxBrewing »

I wish I was local


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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by madspeed »

I have a tri clover fitting on my keg. Just ordered a 5500w Camco ulw element, this 220v SCR with cooling fan, and this box. According to my measurements, its should all fit nicely into this small footprint. Plan on installing it similar fashion to this but with the adjustment knob protruding through Image
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Hammond »

I had problems with temp control on my electric hot plate. It was impossible to maintain a steady temperature with long on/off cycles even after bypassing the temp sensor. Also the quality of the hotplate was a problem because it had plastic sides which melted and switches that also failed. I found a CADCO hotplate #CSR-3T 14" 110v, 1500Watt to be a well constructed metal framed and more robust. The temperature contol problem was solved by using a Johnson Control A419 temp control which is totally programable offering adjustable set points, dead band settings, high temp alarm and sensor failure alarm. I have tested this setup with 5 batches and have not had a problem with temp swings or hot plate failure. The RTD sensor is worm clamped to the column base for easy removal. My stilI is now closer to set and forget operation.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by still_stirrin »

Hammond wrote:...My stilI is now closer to set and forget operation.
Don't plan for unattended operation. Always "remember" that hot alcohol vapors are explosive.

Safety first and foremost.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by kimbodious »

Added bling to my power controller, a SPDT switch to bypass the SSVR and also a multparameter meter.
image.jpeg
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by spencoid »

I have been programming Arduinos for about 7 years now and they have become my method of choice for controlling just about anything. My newest still (experimental phase) uses an SSR to control the immersion type heating element. It is 5500 watts at 220 volts. So far no problems with the 100 amp SSR on a heat sink but no cooling fan.

The Arduino is controlling a lot more than just the SSR, it has temp and flow sensors etc and controls a proportioning valve for the reflux.

It is really easy to control an SSR with an Arduino once you understand how an SSR works. SSRs are zero crossing switches meaning that they switch on and off when the AC voltage goes to 0. This means that you can not pulse width modulate them at a frequency near or faster than the line frequency. If you only want to control a single heater and are not interested in learning about Arduinos or other microcontrollers, there are SSRS that vary their duty cycle by following a control input. Probably lots of info on these on this thread.

If you want to do more such as display temperatures, build safety shut down circuits etc, might as well use an Arduino and add a display that can show all sorts of things.

I can share some code with those who want to try this.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by spencoid »

i have been running my still quite a lot lately. i made a big batch of sugar wash and am stripping it so i can make gin quickly on demand with different recipes. my Arduino controller has been working flawlessly with one minor exception. i had a short of 220 volt line current to ground and it burned up the microcontroller. it still tried its best to work but was not reliable. $15 replacement and it is back to working correctly. The reason for the failure is that i use an input to sense boiler level and this input is not protected. My next improvement will be to optically isolate the input so this will not happen again but the only reason it did happen is because i had not covered the terminals on the SSR. now they have a good coating of liquid electrical tape :)

I know it is not a good idea to leave the still unattended but i did yesterday, by mistake. I set it to maintain a head temperature of 83 C and went to do an errand and got distracted. By the time i remembered it had been a few hours. I was wondering what disaster might await me. Luckily the temp i had set allowed the still to just boil off mst of the ethanol and it was just maintaining the temp with little distillate flowing, most of it refluxing so the collection container had not even overflowed. Adding two features to cover this, one a bigger collection jar and two a timeout function. I already have it mostly programmed, just need to debug it. There are three timers running in the controller for various functions including one that counts seconds. There will be a user settable time limit that counts down and shuts off the heater. I still do not plan to leave the still running unattended for more than a brief period but i do forget now and then. I could also add a sensor using bluetooth or some other short range radio control that turned off the still if i walked to far from it :)
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by still_stirrin »

spencoid wrote:i have been running my still quite a lot lately...I know it is not a good idea to leave the still unattended but i did yesterday, by mistake. I set it to maintain a head temperature of 83 C and went to do an errand and got distracted. By the time i remembered it had been a few hours...I still do not plan to leave the still running unattended...
SHAME...SHAME...SHAME. You got lucky. You could have come home to a pile of ashes where your home used to be.

To all new distillers (and even a few old ones) DO NOT LEAVE YOUR STILL UNNATTENDED.....ever!

I don't care how good you are at programming and automation...when distilling, yo're working with highly flammable materials in an explosive environment. If you down play this, then don't post it here on the forum. We all have responsibility to keep things safe, even beyond our control. Don't promote unsafe practice...Spencoid, this means YOU! Don't advertise unsafe methods here....period.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by spencoid »

since i tend to forget now and then, i should add a kill switch connected to a string on my belt so the still will stop if i leave. i had one of these on the motor on my sail boat. if you fell overboard, it killed the engine.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

spencoid wrote:since i tend to forget now and then, i should add a kill switch connected to a string on my belt so the still will stop if i leave. i had one of these on the motor on my sail boat. if you fell overboard, it killed the engine.
That's one way. Better a dead man switch than a dead man.
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by sonnyplumb »

I've used one of these cheap Chinese motor controllers (bought from ebay) very successfully on my 230-240v 2.4Kw heater element. I run it at full power up to first drips, then take it down to 120 for foreshots (I'd guess that's 600W based on Ohm's law) and up to 140 on the main run until I run it a bit slower for tails.

https://www.banggood.com/4000W-AC-220V- ... rehouse=CN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Heating Element Control

Post by Budapest8485 »

Anyone see this thing for $25: https://alexnld.com/product/4000w-ac-22 ... hermostat/

The 220v heaters I see are 5500 watts...not sure if there's a way to make this work.
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